Anything less than a top 25 season next year should be unacceptable

[OttoinGrotto]

Agree. It's possible to find the right guy to turnaround this quickly. Heck Wyoming was a horrible mess after Allen Edwards 4 years there. They couldn't compete at all. Jeff Linder has them playing great in just his second year, and that's after their star freshman PG transferred to Texas A&M after last year. Trust me - Wyoming is not an easy place to win either.

Know what's wild about Wyoming?

You drive I-80, it's just completely brown.

And the colors they chose for their university are... brown and yellow.

It's like, they had an opportunity to invite a spec of color into their lives and the people of Wyoming were like, nah, we good.

 

[Orijinal]

This side of the forum is just miserable. All of you sling JB around like he hasn't gotten been to 2 Sweet 16s in the last few years, and was in the final 4 in 2016

Your point of views are very one-sided, and never express the full picture. It's garbage. And I generally like and agree with some of the posters who are expressing these things.

But some of you keep calling for Benny Williams to play and he couldn't even make a basket up until 2 games ago.

And then you constantly rag on Joe G. What's his scoring average? 13.3/game. 40% from floor. 40% from 3. 90% FT. Who else should JB play? Torrence? He can't make a bucket. Richmond? He's gone ...and by the looks of it JB made Richmond who he was, and it was a foolish decision on his part to leave the program. 9 pt average, 40% from floor, 35% from 3. In his freshman year at Syracuse, his FG% was better, and his 3 pt % was about the same. He would have done himself a huge favor by staying. He's only averaging 3 more points a game ...at Seton Hall for goodness sakes

And then y'all say JB just plays his favorites, and it's nepotism. Goodness sakes. Buddy deserves every minute he has played. You say JB over-invested in him in his freshman year, and he should have sat. Thank God JB didn't sit him. Because he was right to play his son, who by the way is a high character kid and is very well spoken, and carries this team most games. This thinking is just asinine. But we got a mob mentality out here, and everyone is just looking for a lynching

Jimmy B? What can't he do? He has made big shots on the inside, and can make the 3

And don't you think some of the losing lately can be attributed to having your best inside presence injured for the season? Edwards was coming on strong and got hurt at absolutely the wrong time. Doesn't this have anything to do with it? Anyone?

At least be balanced in your criticisms. Tell the full story. Most of you should be in mass media for the one-sided angles you try and sell.

Does JB deserve criticism? Absolutely yes. Without a doubt. Recruiting should be better at this point, the program shouldn't be on the bubble year in and year out, and Syracuse shouldn't be a mediocre team in a bad conference ... ever

But be balanced in what you say. JB doesn't need to be fired. He should coach if he wants to coach. There's a good class coming in (maybe not stellar, but good), and if players who are currently on the roster don't make foolish decisions, then there is something to work with.

Man, I've just had it with the absolute negativity and constant trashing of Boeheim on this side of the forum. Absolutely every thread is a dark read. Everyone is like "there is nothing redeemable here! Throw it all out! JB is an awful coach!" And it's absolutely senseless and irrational

 

[Cusefan0307]

This side of the forum is just miserable. All of you sling JB around like he hasn't gotten been to 2 Sweet 16s in the last few years, and was in the final 4 in 2016

Your point of views are very one-sided, and never express the full picture. It's garbage. And I generally like and agree with some of the posters who are expressing these things.

But some of you keep calling for Benny Williams to play and he couldn't even make a basket up until 2 games ago.

And then you constantly rag on Joe G. What's his scoring average? 13.3/game. 40% from floor. 40% from 3. 90% FT. Who else should JB play? Torrence? He can't make a bucket. Richmond? He's gone ...and by the looks of it JB made Richmond who he was, and it was a foolish decision on his part to leave the program. 9 pt average, 40% from floor, 35% from 3. In his freshman year at Syracuse, his FG% was better, and his 3 pt % was about the same. He would have done himself a huge favor by staying. He's only averaging 3 more points a game ...at Seton Hall for goodness sakes

And then y'all say JB just plays his favorites, and it's nepotism. Goodness sakes. Buddy deserves every minute he has played. You say JB over-invested in him in his freshman year, and he should have sat. Thank God JB didn't sit him. Because he was right to play his son, who by the way is a high character kid and is very well spoken, and carries this team most games. This thinking is just asinine. But we got a mob mentality out here, and everyone is just looking for a lynching

Jimmy B? What can't he do? He has made big shots on the inside, and can make the 3

And don't you think some of the losing lately can be attributed to having your best inside presence injured for the season? Edwards was coming on strong and got hurt at absolutely the wrong time. Doesn't this have anything to do with it? Anyone?

At least be balanced in your criticisms. Tell the full story. Most of you should be in mass media for the one-sided angles you try and sell.

Does JB deserve criticism? Absolutely yes. Without a doubt. Recruiting should be better at this point, the program shouldn't be on the bubble year in and year out, and Syracuse shouldn't be a mediocre team in a bad conference ... ever

But be balanced in what you say. JB doesn't need to be fired. He should coach if he wants to coach. There's a good class coming in (maybe not stellar, but good), and if players who are currently on the roster don't make foolish decisions, then there is something to work with.

Man, I've just had it with the absolute negativity and constant trashing of Boeheim on this side of the forum. Absolutely every thread is a dark read. Everyone is like "there is nothing redeemable here! Throw it all out! JB is an awful coach!" And it's absolutely senseless and irrational

Stop. I’ve been one of JB’s biggest supporters over the year and have said multiple times he knows how to win in March. It is not about that.

He’s slipped.

We need changes now or we risk turning into football.

 

[phil77]

I sent Mr. Wildhack and email I am waiting a response LOL

 

[Fly Rodder]

Interesting take. It's the fault of the players and the fans. OK.

This side of the forum is just miserable. All of you sling JB around like he hasn't gotten been to 2 Sweet 16s in the last few years, and was in the final 4 in 2016

Your point of views are very one-sided, and never express the full picture. It's garbage. And I generally like and agree with some of the posters who are expressing these things.

But some of you keep calling for Benny Williams to play and he couldn't even make a basket up until 2 games ago.

And then you constantly rag on Joe G. What's his scoring average? 13.3/game. 40% from floor. 40% from 3. 90% FT. Who else should JB play? Torrence? He can't make a bucket. Richmond? He's gone ...and by the looks of it JB made Richmond who he was, and it was a foolish decision on his part to leave the program. 9 pt average, 40% from floor, 35% from 3. In his freshman year at Syracuse, his FG% was better, and his 3 pt % was about the same. He would have done himself a huge favor by staying. He's only averaging 3 more points a game ...at Seton Hall for goodness sakes

And then y'all say JB just plays his favorites, and it's nepotism. Goodness sakes. Buddy deserves every minute he has played. You say JB over-invested in him in his freshman year, and he should have sat. Thank God JB didn't sit him. Because he was right to play his son, who by the way is a high character kid and is very well spoken, and carries this team most games. This thinking is just asinine. But we got a mob mentality out here, and everyone is just looking for a lynching

Jimmy B? What can't he do? He has made big shots on the inside, and can make the 3

And don't you think some of the losing lately can be attributed to having your best inside presence injured for the season? Edwards was coming on strong and got hurt at absolutely the wrong time. Doesn't this have anything to do with it? Anyone?

At least be balanced in your criticisms. Tell the full story. Most of you should be in mass media for the one-sided angles you try and sell.

Does JB deserve criticism? Absolutely yes. Without a doubt. Recruiting should be better at this point, the program shouldn't be on the bubble year in and year out, and Syracuse shouldn't be a mediocre team in a bad conference ... ever

But be balanced in what you say. JB doesn't need to be fired. He should coach if he wants to coach. There's a good class coming in (maybe not stellar, but good), and if players who are currently on the roster don't make foolish decisions, then there is something to work with.

Man, I've just had it with the absolute negativity and constant trashing of Boeheim on this side of the forum. Absolutely every thread is a dark read. Everyone is like "there is nothing redeemable here! Throw it all out! JB is an awful coach!" And it's absolutely senseless and irrational

 

[Orijinal]

Interesting take. It's the fault of the players and the fans. OK.

I don't believe that's what I said at all

 

[pearl31]

Stop. I’ve been one of JB’s biggest supporters over the year and have said multiple times he knows how to win in March. It is not about that.

He’s slipped.

We need changes now or we risk turning into football.

By now you know I'm inclined to agree with you.

But it's also important to continue to hear these sentiments from folks like Orijinal - folks/sentiments that still comprise a large, if not majority, segment of the SU basketball fanbase - and recognize that's what the AD/chancellor are still hearing a lot of and have to consider strongly

 

[djcon57]

And then you constantly rag on Joe G. What's his scoring average? 13.3/game. 40% from floor. 40% from 3. 90% FT. Who else should JB play? Torrence? He can't make a bucket.

this reads like a post I mocked up when Symir committed. Classic.

oh, and Seton Hall is probably going to make the tourney. we are not,

 

[djcon57]

Jimmy B? What can't he do? He has made big shots on the inside, and can make the 3
...

At least be balanced in your criticisms. Tell the full story. Most of you should be in mass media for the one-sided angles you try and sell.

Defend? Rebound?

 

[Orijinal]

Defend? Rebound?

You are right. Fine. But like I said, tell both sides of the story. And I'm in no way directing that at you in particular. Just making a general statement

 

[djcon57]

You are right. Fine. But like I said, tell both sides of the story. And I'm in no way directing that at you in particular. Just making a general statement

Sure. I don’t like when posters slag JBs legacy. I’m with you on that.

but reality is the current team is bad. There simply is not really a both sides take to a .500 team in a bad ACC that lost to Georgetown and Colgate at home.

 

[Orangezoo]

This side of the forum is just miserable. All of you sling JB around like he hasn't gotten been to 2 Sweet 16s in the last few years, and was in the final 4 in 2016

Your point of views are very one-sided, and never express the full picture. It's garbage. And I generally like and agree with some of the posters who are expressing these things.

But some of you keep calling for Benny Williams to play and he couldn't even make a basket up until 2 games ago.

And then you constantly rag on Joe G. What's his scoring average? 13.3/game. 40% from floor. 40% from 3. 90% FT. Who else should JB play? Torrence? He can't make a bucket. Richmond? He's gone ...and by the looks of it JB made Richmond who he was, and it was a foolish decision on his part to leave the program. 9 pt average, 40% from floor, 35% from 3. In his freshman year at Syracuse, his FG% was better, and his 3 pt % was about the same. He would have done himself a huge favor by staying. He's only averaging 3 more points a game ...at Seton Hall for goodness sakes

And then y'all say JB just plays his favorites, and it's nepotism. Goodness sakes. Buddy deserves every minute he has played. You say JB over-invested in him in his freshman year, and he should have sat. Thank God JB didn't sit him. Because he was right to play his son, who by the way is a high character kid and is very well spoken, and carries this team most games. This thinking is just asinine. But we got a mob mentality out here, and everyone is just looking for a lynching

Jimmy B? What can't he do? He has made big shots on the inside, and can make the 3

And don't you think some of the losing lately can be attributed to having your best inside presence injured for the season? Edwards was coming on strong and got hurt at absolutely the wrong time. Doesn't this have anything to do with it? Anyone?

At least be balanced in your criticisms. Tell the full story. Most of you should be in mass media for the one-sided angles you try and sell.

Does JB deserve criticism? Absolutely yes. Without a doubt. Recruiting should be better at this point, the program shouldn't be on the bubble year in and year out, and Syracuse shouldn't be a mediocre team in a bad conference ... ever

But be balanced in what you say. JB doesn't need to be fired. He should coach if he wants to coach. There's a good class coming in (maybe not stellar, but good), and if players who are currently on the roster don't make foolish decisions, then there is something to work with.

Man, I've just had it with the absolute negativity and constant trashing of Boeheim on this side of the forum. Absolutely every thread is a dark read. Everyone is like "there is nothing redeemable here! Throw it all out! JB is an awful coach!" And it's absolutely senseless and irrational

I can respect you have a different view. I think it's maybe underselling the hundreds of objective takes that many of us have outlined with numbers and facts. It's not hatred for 98 pct of the critics.

There is nothing wrong with those who want to live in the glory days and accept we were once great but now we aren't and mediocrity is just fine. Respecting the past has never been an issue on here. Respecting that JB is the reason this program was ever as good as it was has never been an issue here.

The issue lies in disagreement of whether being on under the current coaching and approach for whatever amount of time he still coaches is OK.

It's an admission that as SU football fans we have made peace with that being ok is a good thing. That any post season makes for a good season.

The fanbase is growing in frustration because we don't accept that being just OK is enough. It's not the reason we have the largest on campus crowds, it's not the reason we donate money, it's not the reason (of many) some of us are proud alums.

The knock it off, get over it and enjoy it approach and being fine with where we are is certainly everyone's right to feel. It is not in the best interest of a program that wants to return to what it should be. But, if fans want to be a program that just competes and gets to the tourney and makes a run every couple years then they will enjoy the smaller Dome crowds and the social event aspect of SU hoops.

One final note- the most painful thing with JB right now is too see his legacy being stained by a run of weaker teams and mediocre seasons. Honestly maybe that isn't said enough but it is painful to see. So many of us wanted this season to be a turnaround carrying last years sweet 16 momentum. It was ideal for that to happen for JB. Then it didn't and this all just drags out more.

 

[44cuse]

Thats crap. If JB lays an egg next year he will retire. JW will see to that. If he wins and makes the dance he stays.

Why do you believe JW will see to that? I'm asking that honestly because I think that's actually the crux of a good portion of the thread these days. Do you really believe JW has more pull than JB?

I honestly do not know. I know that the implication if he DOESN'T (as an AD) is pretty awful. But nothing would surprise me at this point.

44cuse

 

[syrBossHogg]

This side of the forum is just miserable. All of you sling JB around like he hasn't gotten been to 2 Sweet 16s in the last few years, and was in the final 4 in 2016

Your point of views are very one-sided, and never express the full picture. It's garbage. And I generally like and agree with some of the posters who are expressing these things.

But some of you keep calling for Benny Williams to play and he couldn't even make a basket up until 2 games ago.

And then you constantly rag on Joe G. What's his scoring average? 13.3/game. 40% from floor. 40% from 3. 90% FT. Who else should JB play? Torrence? He can't make a bucket. Richmond? He's gone ...and by the looks of it JB made Richmond who he was, and it was a foolish decision on his part to leave the program. 9 pt average, 40% from floor, 35% from 3. In his freshman year at Syracuse, his FG% was better, and his 3 pt % was about the same. He would have done himself a huge favor by staying. He's only averaging 3 more points a game ...at Seton Hall for goodness sakes

And then y'all say JB just plays his favorites, and it's nepotism. Goodness sakes. Buddy deserves every minute he has played. You say JB over-invested in him in his freshman year, and he should have sat. Thank God JB didn't sit him. Because he was right to play his son, who by the way is a high character kid and is very well spoken, and carries this team most games. This thinking is just asinine. But we got a mob mentality out here, and everyone is just looking for a lynching

Jimmy B? What can't he do? He has made big shots on the inside, and can make the 3

And don't you think some of the losing lately can be attributed to having your best inside presence injured for the season? Edwards was coming on strong and got hurt at absolutely the wrong time. Doesn't this have anything to do with it? Anyone?

At least be balanced in your criticisms. Tell the full story. Most of you should be in mass media for the one-sided angles you try and sell.

Does JB deserve criticism? Absolutely yes. Without a doubt. Recruiting should be better at this point, the program shouldn't be on the bubble year in and year out, and Syracuse shouldn't be a mediocre team in a bad conference ... ever

But be balanced in what you say. JB doesn't need to be fired. He should coach if he wants to coach. There's a good class coming in (maybe not stellar, but good), and if players who are currently on the roster don't make foolish decisions, then there is something to work with.

Man, I've just had it with the absolute negativity and constant trashing of Boeheim on this side of the forum. Absolutely every thread is a dark read. Everyone is like "there is nothing redeemable here! Throw it all out! JB is an awful coach!" And it's absolutely senseless and irrational

You can't yell at the board for not being balanced and then give your own unbalanced take. Two Sweet 16s and a Final Four aren't enough to make up for 8 years of not being ranked in conference play + soon to be 4 missed NCAA tournament appearances. The program has slipped, period.

 

[Grbac]

This side of the forum is just miserable. All of you sling JB around like he hasn't gotten been to 2 Sweet 16s in the last few years, and was in the final 4 in 2016

Your point of views are very one-sided, and never express the full picture. It's garbage. And I generally like and agree with some of the posters who are expressing these things.

But some of you keep calling for Benny Williams to play and he couldn't even make a basket up until 2 games ago.

And then you constantly rag on Joe G. What's his scoring average? 13.3/game. 40% from floor. 40% from 3. 90% FT. Who else should JB play? Torrence? He can't make a bucket. Richmond? He's gone ...and by the looks of it JB made Richmond who he was, and it was a foolish decision on his part to leave the program. 9 pt average, 40% from floor, 35% from 3. In his freshman year at Syracuse, his FG% was better, and his 3 pt % was about the same. He would have done himself a huge favor by staying. He's only averaging 3 more points a game ...at Seton Hall for goodness sakes

And then y'all say JB just plays his favorites, and it's nepotism. Goodness sakes. Buddy deserves every minute he has played. You say JB over-invested in him in his freshman year, and he should have sat. Thank God JB didn't sit him. Because he was right to play his son, who by the way is a high character kid and is very well spoken, and carries this team most games. This thinking is just asinine. But we got a mob mentality out here, and everyone is just looking for a lynching

Jimmy B? What can't he do? He has made big shots on the inside, and can make the 3

And don't you think some of the losing lately can be attributed to having your best inside presence injured for the season? Edwards was coming on strong and got hurt at absolutely the wrong time. Doesn't this have anything to do with it? Anyone?

At least be balanced in your criticisms. Tell the full story. Most of you should be in mass media for the one-sided angles you try and sell.

Does JB deserve criticism? Absolutely yes. Without a doubt. Recruiting should be better at this point, the program shouldn't be on the bubble year in and year out, and Syracuse shouldn't be a mediocre team in a bad conference ... ever

But be balanced in what you say. JB doesn't need to be fired. He should coach if he wants to coach. There's a good class coming in (maybe not stellar, but good), and if players who are currently on the roster don't make foolish decisions, then there is something to work with.

Man, I've just had it with the absolute negativity and constant trashing of Boeheim on this side of the forum. Absolutely every thread is a dark read. Everyone is like "there is nothing redeemable here! Throw it all out! JB is an awful coach!" And it's absolutely senseless and irrational

You can’t see the forest for the trees. If JB was a lot younger with more vigor, I would not argue with your point. But he is 77.

Do you see him turning this ship around anytime soon?
Do you think this incoming class will propel us to the top 25? Do you think anything changes?
If the answer to any of those questions is no, we should move on. If we are not moving forward and progressing towards beings a perennial solid tourney team every year then we are either stagnant or moving backwards.

We all love Jim Boeheim and would not be fans if we didn’t. But sometimes tough love is the best kind of love you can give. JB of all people would agree with that.

 

[OrangeDW]

This side of the forum is just miserable. All of you sling JB around like he hasn't gotten been to 2 Sweet 16s in the last few years, and was in the final 4 in 2016

Your point of views are very one-sided, and never express the full picture. It's garbage. And I generally like and agree with some of the posters who are expressing these things.

But some of you keep calling for Benny Williams to play and he couldn't even make a basket up until 2 games ago.

And then you constantly rag on Joe G. What's his scoring average? 13.3/game. 40% from floor. 40% from 3. 90% FT. Who else should JB play? Torrence? He can't make a bucket. Richmond? He's gone ...and by the looks of it JB made Richmond who he was, and it was a foolish decision on his part to leave the program. 9 pt average, 40% from floor, 35% from 3. In his freshman year at Syracuse, his FG% was better, and his 3 pt % was about the same. He would have done himself a huge favor by staying. He's only averaging 3 more points a game ...at Seton Hall for goodness sakes

And then y'all say JB just plays his favorites, and it's nepotism. Goodness sakes. Buddy deserves every minute he has played. You say JB over-invested in him in his freshman year, and he should have sat. Thank God JB didn't sit him. Because he was right to play his son, who by the way is a high character kid and is very well spoken, and carries this team most games. This thinking is just asinine. But we got a mob mentality out here, and everyone is just looking for a lynching

Jimmy B? What can't he do? He has made big shots on the inside, and can make the 3

And don't you think some of the losing lately can be attributed to having your best inside presence injured for the season? Edwards was coming on strong and got hurt at absolutely the wrong time. Doesn't this have anything to do with it? Anyone?

At least be balanced in your criticisms. Tell the full story. Most of you should be in mass media for the one-sided angles you try and sell.

Does JB deserve criticism? Absolutely yes. Without a doubt. Recruiting should be better at this point, the program shouldn't be on the bubble year in and year out, and Syracuse shouldn't be a mediocre team in a bad conference ... ever

But be balanced in what you say. JB doesn't need to be fired. He should coach if he wants to coach. There's a good class coming in (maybe not stellar, but good), and if players who are currently on the roster don't make foolish decisions, then there is something to work with.

Man, I've just had it with the absolute negativity and constant trashing of Boeheim on this side of the forum. Absolutely every thread is a dark read. Everyone is like "there is nothing redeemable here! Throw it all out! JB is an awful coach!" And it's absolutely senseless and irrational

We’re 15-15, and kids who play ZERO defense play almost the whole game.

There’s not much to be positive about at the moment, and next year seems to be projecting to be shaky too, at this point.

 

[dasher]

I guarantee you right now if we hired Rick Pitino the day after the season. He could build a team to be competitive next year and start recruiting for 2023-2024.

JB can’t do that IMO.
Instead it’s take the lumps next year and hope these kids are decent for the next guy? That strikes internal hire.
No thanks(not directed at you)

I take exception to JB can't do that. I would say won't do that. I don't think he has the energy (so if that is what you mean by can't,okay) but I think the problem is the desire needed to go out and get the kids or kid we need.

 

[Alsacs]

I take exception to JB can't do that. I would say won't do that. I don't think he has the energy (so if that is what you mean by can't,okay) but I think the problem is the desire needed to go out and get the kids or kid we need.

He won’t do it is fine.
The recruiting from Mike Hopkins leaving till this year’s class is my case.

 

[rhcuse]

I take exception to JB can't do that. I would say won't do that. I don't think he has the energy (so if that is what you mean by can't,okay) but I think the problem is the desire needed to go out and get the kids or kid we need.

And how is that not a problem?

 

[pearl31]

As I surmised above, I don't think JB is looking for next year to be blaze-of-glory finale - but rather to be a setting-the-foundation year for the next coach - hence no portal pounding (apparently, based on his comments), no bolstering the freshmen-laden roster with go-to scorers

 

[Cusefan0307]

As I surmised above, I don't think JB is looking for next year to be blaze-of-glory finale - but rather to be a setting-the-foundation year for the next coach - hence no portal pounding (apparently, based on his comments), no bolstering the freshmen-laden roster with go-to scorers

It won’t happen. Some of those guys will transfer.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Defend? Rebound?

That "Jimmy B, what can't he do?" was a really interesting addition to a post that did have some key points throughout.

 

[OttoMets]

...

Jimmy B? What can't he do?...
...

Jump.

Defend.

Grab more rebounds than a dead man.

Choose a real jersey number.

 

[Orijinal]

One final note- the most painful thing with JB right now is too see his legacy being stained by a run of weaker teams and mediocre seasons. Honestly maybe that isn't said enough but it is painful to see. So many of us wanted this season to be a turnaround carrying last years sweet 16 momentum. It was ideal for that to happen for JB. Then it didn't and this all just drags out more.

Really well said

 

[Orijinal]

You can't yell at the board for not being balanced and then give your own unbalanced take. Two Sweet 16s and a Final Four aren't enough to make up for 8 years of not being ranked in conference play + soon to be 4 missed NCAA tournament appearances. The program has slipped, period.

I feel I have to pull hard in one direction because the forum is pulling so hard the other way. I feel that there are things being left out of the conversation ...because either people don't really see them or just ignore them