Buffalo Bills 2019

[chugg21]

Speaking of legit crazy people...

How many NFL QBs can "pick a part a defense for 4 consecutive quarters without a blunder"?

Allen is the single biggest reason that the team has 3 losses right now and #2 isn't even in the same ballpark.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Can’t believe we blew that game. Threw it far too much too.

 

[samspann1]

Wilson, Mahomes, Rodgers, Cousins, Carr, Brady, Wentz, Jackson, Watson, Stafford all have over 15 TDs with 3/1 TD/INT ratio let alone have double digit fumbles and an inability to complete a pass over 25 yards in the air.

How can you look at any meaningful statistic and see the defense in the top 10 in every single one and in top 3 in most and then look at the offense which is no better than 22nd in any meaningful statistic and still maintain the defense is an issue. It's so dumb that I can't comprehend it. It's clear as day. The defense is #1 in the entire league in getting teams to go 3 and out. They are 3rd in yards per drive allowed. 3rd in Pts per drive allowed. What more can you possibly hope for than that? This argument is as absurd as the people still saying sanctions are the reason that we are heading into year 6 of 13+ bball losses and that coaching and recruiting are fine.

Great stats, but what does that have to do with "picking apart a defense for 4 consecutive quarters without a single blunder"?

The offense is most certainly an issue, but I'm not high on the defense. Look at the QBs they've played this year - 1/3rd of them were subsequently benched, and 2 more were backups to start the season. To me, a truly great defense puts the QB down, and forces turnovers. Did you honestly think that the defense played well yesterday?

BTW, the "air passing yard" stat that most are parroting is 30 yards, not 25.

 

[samspann1]

Allen is the single biggest reason that the team has 3 losses right now and #2 isn't even in the same ballpark.

what is #2 in your estimation?

 

[samspann1]

Can’t believe we blew that game. Threw it far too much too.

Brutal loss, no doubt.

IMO, both teams threw the ball too much. Cleveland should have fed Chubb and Hunt to the tune of 45 combined carries - we were getting gashed on the ground...again.

 

[chugg21]

what is #2 in your estimation?

The guy calling plays into his helmet and/or McDermotts fear of him turning the ball over causing them to play so conservatively that it paralyzes the offense as seen at the conclusion of yesterdays game where it seems they halted all momentum of marching down the field because they didn't trust him.

 

[chugg21]

Great stats, but what does that have to do with "picking apart a defense for 4 consecutive quarters without a single blunder"?

The offense is most certainly an issue, but I'm not high on the defense. Look at the QBs they've played this year - 1/3rd of them were subsequently benched, and 2 more were backups to start the season. To me, a truly great defense puts the QB down, and forces turnovers. Did you honestly think that the defense played well yesterday?

BTW, the "air passing yard" stat that most are parroting is 30 yards, not 25.

They've played 1 elite team so far and the defense was incredible. They have given up 16, 14, 17, 16, 7, 21, 31, 9 and 19 points so far and that's not even accounting for pts given up by the offense or special teams. That's 8 out of 9 teams that haven't even hit the league average for points scored per game. I still fail to see real issues on that side. Of course watching the bend but don't break thing is irritating but good lord man. One side is really friggin good and the other is horrible. It can not be argued any other way.

 

[longislandcuse]

I don't think he will ever get to a franchise level, by this many starts into his career you would start to see some things to lead you there and I don't see that. We're so broken from years of trauma that we get ourselves excited when he can take a 7 step drop and hit a 15 yard out or puts the ball on the money basically anywhere. Those expectations are laughably low for someone that you want to lead you anywhere. If he can become an average starter that can take what the defense gives him without being a turnover machine then I will be happy and I feel like that is the realistic ceiling at this point. He's never going to be able to pick a part a defense for 4 consecutive quarters without a blunder, hell he can't do it for 4 consecutive drives yet. He is 31st in QBR among the 32 qualified QBs. People here laugh about Darnold and Mitch and he's behind both and Daniel Jones. I went into this season completely optimistic on his future seeing as he was surrounded by garbage last year but this year he is bringing down the entire offense and costing the team games. The people placing any blame on the defense are legit crazy people. Defense is 3rd in the league in yards per drive, points per game, etc. Offense is in the 20s in every meaningful category.

I’ve watched a lot of other QBs and Allen is a guy where he passes the eye test way better than the stat test. I’m sorry, he looks better than Baker, Sam, Goff etc this year... he just does.

I absolutely see franchise QB capability.

He is elite in the red zone.

He is clutch in the 4th.

He throw 15-20 yard darts, that most other QBs won’t even attempt, with regularity.

He is a born leader, and someone who can be the face of a franchise.

He has to work on reading defenses (as does every young QB), and needs to fix the deep ball inaccuracy and fumbling issues. That all looks correctable to me.

 

[samspann1]

The guy calling plays into his helmet and/or McDermotts fear of him turning the ball over causing them to play so conservatively that it paralyzes the offense as seen in yesterday disgusting last 90 seconds.

It was actually 1:05 when we had the ball at the 40-yard line. Regardless, I didn't understand that sequence of plays, or the clock management.

No criticism of the ST against NE or Cleveland? Block punt for a TD against NE + Hauschka missed FG against NE, and 2 missed Hauschka FGs against Cleveland. Seems pretty important to me.

You're clearly a huge fan on the defense, but what were your thoughts on the run D against Philly? Washington? Cleveland?

 

[chugg21]

I’ve watched a lot of other QBs and Allen is a guy where he passes the eye test way better than the stat test. I’m sorry, he looks better than Baker, Sam, Goff etc this year... he just does.

I absolutely see franchise QB capability.

He is elite in the red zone.

He is clutch in the 4th.

He throw 15-20 yard darts, that most other QBs won’t even attempt, with regularity.

He is a born leader, and someone who can be the face of a franchise.

He has to work on reading defenses (as does every young QB), and needs to fix the deep ball inaccuracy and fumbling issues. That all looks correctable to me.

The eye test is what is going to lead to him still being QB in 2021 and single-handedly limiting the ceiling of the team. What is one thing that he does better than Baker, Darnold or Goff? Bulldoze guys as a runner? That's about all I come up with. In no way is he a better passer than any of them.

 

[chugg21]

It was actually 1:05 when we had the ball at the 40-yard line. Regardless, I didn't understand that sequence of plays, or the clock management.

No criticism of the ST against NE or Cleveland? Block punt for a TD against NE + Hauschka missed FG against NE, and 2 missed Hauschka FGs against Cleveland. Seems pretty important to me.

You're clearly a huge fan on the defense, but what were your thoughts on the run D against Philly? Washington? Cleveland?

Philly game was a debacle. I don't know how to criticize them much for the Redskins game, they allowed 9 points. Sure the ST is an absolute mess too. I don't think it can be argued with eyes or stats that we have the worst punter in the NFL, last time I checked a few weeks ago he was 32/32 in net and gross. Hauschka has been a disaster. Being short on a 53 yarder in the NFL with no wind is laughable.

I wouldn't consider myself a huge fan of the defense, I'm fairly indifferent to them but all indicators are that they are a contender level defense and were last year too. I just think anyone thinking the defense is a real issue is a crazy person.

 

[longislandcuse]

The eye test is what is going to lead to him still being QB in 2021 and single-handedly limiting the ceiling of the team. What is one thing that he does better than Baker, Darnold or Goff? Bulldoze guys as a runner? That's about all I come up with. In no way is he a better passer than any of them.

He’s a better runner than those 3, better in the red zone and better in the 4th quarter.

I’m not ready to declare him the franchise guy but I think some of the criticism is too much.

We like to pretend talent around him doesn’t matter, yet somehow he and our only talented WR, John Brown, put up strong number week in, week out. Am I supposed to believe that won’t happen with another John Brown or better type talent opposite him?

Josh needs to be better. The play calling needs to be better. The talent needs to be better.

Goff, Baker and Sam might very well be better passers, but we drafted white Cam. I see things that lead me to be more optimistic about Allen than pessimistic.

Sam has been awful so not going there. How do you think Allen would look on the Rams or Browns?... because his Year 3 offense should be near that level.

 

[samspann1]

They've played 1 elite team so far and the defense was incredible. They have given up 16, 14, 17, 16, 7, 21, 31, 9 and 19 points so far and that's not even accounting for pts given up by the offense or special teams. That's 8 out of 9 teams that haven't even hit the league average for points scored per game. I still fail to see real issues on that side. Of course watching the bend but don't break thing is irritating but good lord man. One side is really friggin good and the other is horrible. It can not be argued any other way.

Totally agree that the D played a great game against NE. But I do think that the play of the defense has slipped since the bye week.

 

[chugg21]

Allen: 21 games, 56.1 comp%, 190.1 YPG, 20 TDs, 19 Ints, 73.3 QB rating, 14 Rush TDs, 19 Fumbles
Darnold: 19 games, 59.5 comp%, 219 YPG, 24 TDs, 24 Ints, 74.5 QB rating, 2 Rush TDs, 8 Fumbles
Baker: 23 games, 62.5 comp%, 257.7 YPG, 36 TDs, 26 Ints, 86.5 QB rating, 1 Rush TD, 4 Fumbles

I don't know what the point of an argument about the red zone is if you can't get your team there. He is literally dead last in the NFL among starting QBs in attempts inside the red zone.

You may have something with the 4Q as he is 8th in the league in 4Q QB rating. Right between Rudolph and Mariota and behind Tannehill which leads me to believe that is worthless and likely is because defenses become more vanilla in the 4Q especially since he's not in the top 20 for the 2nd half as a whole.

 

[samspann1]

Allen: 21 games, 56.1 comp%, 190.1 YPG, 20 TDs, 19 Ints, 73.3 QB rating, 14 Rush TDs, 19 Fumbles
Darnold: 19 games, 59.5 comp%, 219 YPG, 24 TDs, 24 Ints, 74.5 QB rating, 2 Rush TDs, 8 Fumbles
Baker: 23 games, 62.5 comp%, 257.7 YPG, 36 TDs, 26 Ints, 86.5 QB rating, 1 Rush TD, 4 Fumbles

I don't know what the point of an argument about the red zone is if you can't get your team there. He is literally dead last in the NFL among starting QBs in attempts inside the red zone.

You may have something with the 4Q as he is 8th in the league in 4Q QB rating. Right between Rudolph and Mariota and behind Tannehill which leads me to believe that is worthless and likely is because defenses become more vanilla in the 4Q especially since he's not in the top 20 for the 2nd half as a whole.

If you're going to list fumbles, and not fumbles lost, then you should list bad throws that should have been picked off but weren't (e.g. Mayfield's punt that White dropped yesterday).

Maybe Allen throws less in the red zone because he uses his legs as a weapon? 14 rushing TDs would seem to support that theory.

Allen's 4th quarter numbers aren't garbage time stat padders, and I assume that even you will admit that. So far this year, he's led 4Q drives to either tie or take the lead in 5 games.

How have Baker and Sam looked in comparison to Allen this season to date? I'm more concerned about progress made rather than what was done last season

 

[chugg21]

If you're going to list fumbles, and not fumbles lost, then you should list bad throws that should have been picked off but weren't (e.g. Mayfield's punt that White dropped yesterday).

Maybe Allen throws less in the red zone because he uses his legs as a weapon? 14 rushing TDs would seem to support that theory.

Allen's 4th quarter numbers aren't garbage time stat padders, and I assume that even you will admit that. So far this year, he's led 4Q drives to either tie or take the lead in 5 games.

How have Baker and Sam looked in comparison to Allen this season to date? I'm more concerned about progress made rather than what was done last season

The 4th quarter thing is a conundrum. The team wouldn't be in desperation mode in the 4th quarter if he wasn't so damn incompetent during the 1st 3 quarters. 23rd in 1Q ppg, 22nd in 2Q, 30th!!! in 3Q and then shoot up to 7th in the 4Q.

 

[Toga]

Let's activate Duke and see what he's got.

 

[longislandcuse]

Jimmy G going from weak link to stud last week with the addition of Sanders.

I wonder if thats at all related?..

They seem a lot like us but with an OC who sticks to the run and a better version of Knox and McKenzie/Foster.

 

[longislandcuse]

Well... Jimmy G looks like pre-Sanders Jimmy G, without Sanders.

Maybe talent does help a QB?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

He’s a better runner than those 3, better in the red zone and better in the 4th quarter.

I’m not ready to declare him the franchise guy but I think some of the criticism is too much.

We like to pretend talent around him doesn’t matter, yet somehow he and our only talented WR, John Brown, put up strong number week in, week out. Am I supposed to believe that won’t happen with another John Brown or better type talent opposite him?

Josh needs to be better. The play calling needs to be better. The talent needs to be better.

Goff, Baker and Sam might very well be better passers, but we drafted white Cam. I see things that lead me to be more optimistic about Allen than pessimistic.

Sam has been awful so not going there. How do you think Allen would look on the Rams or Browns?... because his Year 3 offense should be near that level.

Agree and I think Josh will be evaluated at the end of the 2020 as he will most certainly will be the starter for next year and most likely the year after. Just like to see him be average sooner rather than later. Not disputing his QBR but he does have a lot of qualities that you like in a Qb but sure would be nice to see some of the qualities be more tangible. Like I said, big fan of the kid and I am rooting for him but it's still very much in the air if he can be an average franchise QB. I can understand people having doubts at this point for sure. I am certainly not giving up on the kid though. Some more talent would help and I think Daboll can improve as well but I like some of what he does as well.

Shake my head at all these scouts and draft gurus and they all passed on Lamar for 4 other QB's and two years later is pretty clear to see that they were all dead wrong

 

[chugg21]

Agree and I think Josh will be evaluated at the end of the 2020 as he will most certainly will be the starter for next year and most likely the year after. Just like to see him be average sooner rather than later. Not disputing his QBR but he does have a lot of qualities that you like in a Qb but sure would be nice to see some of the qualities be more tangible. Like I said, big fan of the kid and I am rooting for him but it's still very much in the air if he can be an average franchise QB. I can understand people having doubts at this point for sure. I am certainly not giving up on the kid though. Some more talent would help and I think Daboll can improve as well but I like some of what he does as well.

Shake my head at all these scouts and draft gurus and they all passed on Lamar for 4 other QB's and two years later is pretty clear to see that they were all dead wrong

Pretty difficult to believe a guy is going to be able to do this when only Vick has had any success playing like this. Not sure what the longevity of this playing style is either with the hits accumulating. I'd be pretty surprised if he can maintain this level for more than another year or 2 if he doesn't tone it down.

 

[Melancer46]

Pretty difficult to believe a guy is going to be able to do this when only Vick has had any success playing like this. Not sure what the longevity of this playing style is either with the hits accumulating. I'd be pretty surprised if he can maintain this level for more than another year or 2 if he doesn't tone it down.

There's really no evidence that Lamar's playing style leaves him more susceptible to injuries than any other QB or any other ball-carrier. Maybe he gets hurt in the future; maybe he doesn't. What I do know is that he's an MVP candidate (and maybe the current front runner) when he's healthy and the other QBs from that draft class currently range from horrific to below-average.

 

[chugg21]

There's really no evidence that Lamar's playing style leaves him more susceptible to injuries than any other QB or any other ball-carrier. Maybe he gets hurt in the future; maybe he doesn't. What I do know is that he's an MVP candidate (and maybe the current front runner) when he's healthy and the other QBs from that draft class currently range from horrific to below-average.

Fully agree on the MVP portion. Might not be any specific Lamar evidence, but can look at the only recent QBs to play this way recently, Vick/RG3, and see that they both suffered significant injuries fairly early.

 

[Melancer46]

Fully agree on the MVP portion. Might not be any specific Lamar evidence, but can look at the only recent QBs to play this way recently, Vick/RG3, and see that they both suffered significant injuries fairly early.

Leading up to the dog suspension, which effectively ended his prime, Vick missed 2 games in 3 years.

RG3:

• Destroyed his knee into a million pieces trying to catch a shotgun snap like every QB does on almost every play.
• Dislocated his ankle while throwing a ball away.
• Hurt his shoulder on a scramble.

The first two injuries (which basically ruined his career) had nothing to do with his running ability. Vick was fine for the most part.

Statistics show that QBs are more likely to get injured getting hit in the pocket than they are on a designed QB run. Not to mention nobody says that you shouldn't use your RB or WR because they might get hurt. Injuries happen here and there to every position. There's nothing out there to suggest that a QB that happens to be an insanely good runner is at an increased injury risk; if anything, all of the evidence suggests the opposite. It's just old school football heads that can't wrap their minds around players that don't fit the usual mold.

 

[chugg21]

Leading up to the dog suspension, which effectively ended his prime, Vick missed 2 games in 3 years.

RG3:

• Destroyed his knee into a million pieces trying to catch a shotgun snap like every QB does on almost every play.
• Dislocated his ankle while throwing a ball away.
• Hurt his shoulder on a scramble.

The first two injuries (which basically ruined his career) had nothing to do with his running ability. Vick was fine for the most part.

Statistics show that QBs are more likely to get injured getting hit in the pocket than they are on a designed QB run. Not to mention nobody says that you shouldn't use your RB or WR because they might get hurt. Injuries happen here and there to every position. There's nothing out there to suggest that a QB that happens to be an insanely good runner is at an increased injury risk; if anything, all of the evidence suggests the opposite. It's just old school football heads that can't wrap their minds around players that don't fit the usual mold.

And adding a 4th year to the Vick stats you use changes the numbers dramatically. And folks do worry about wear and tear on RBs and they tend to start falling apart by 27. And once he loses a step or 2 he's going to be neutered in the same way Russell Westbrook seems to be. Given all that, I would still take him over the rest of the year 2 guys with the exception of maybe Baker still. Would have to think about that for a while but think there is a better chance of Baker playing at a high level for the next decade than Lamar.