Carmelo's Woes

[OrangeDW]

Melo is in his 15th season. That’s a lot of games and minutes. How many guys get 16 ppg in their 15th season?

He clearly isn’t really built to be a guy who stands in the corner and occasionally jacks a 3. Neither was Waiters.

 

[Waltdods]

Never understood this irrational concept that somehow Melo "forced a trade" to NY. What, did he kidnap the NYK front office and hold them hostage until he got his way? All they needed to do was hold off till he became a FA at the end of the year, yet Melo gets blamed for "forcing" them to panic and act prematurely? The old "stop me before I kill again" theory of sports management, I guess.
The man wanted his money, and he wanted to come to NY. If the Knicks would've waited, both things would've taken place. The simple answer would've been- "we'll revisit this at the end of the year", then call off negotiations and wait. The lack of planning and foresight from the Knicks shouldn't preclude Melo from wanting he get his money. Its called being a capitalist...because, 'Murica!

This is all true. And no one should begrudge what Anthony did.

But when evaluating his legacy, it is both the case that he had largely crappy talent around him, and that this was in part his doing. He took the money, which was both his right and IMO the right decision. But it’s hard to then turn around and say, well of course he didn’t win the last few years of his prime - look at the dreck he had to play with. He picked it, and his decision limited what the Knicks could do. (Sure they’re the Knicks so they probably would have used the extra money to pay $20 million to darko.)

 

[OrangeDW]

This is all true. And no one should begrudge what Anthony did.

But when evaluating his legacy, it is both the case that he had largely crappy talent around him, and that this was in part his doing. He took the money, which was both his right and IMO the right decision. But it’s hard to then turn around and say, well of course he didn’t win the last few years of his prime - look at the dreck he had to play with. He picked it, and his decision limited what the Knicks could do. (Sure they’re the Knicks so they probably would have used the extra money to pay $20 million to darko.)

I think it’s more about Amare being hurt than the mediocre young guys they traded to get him. Plus Tyson Chandler (their other big signing) being banged up and playing poorly in the playoffs every year. The Knicks invested heavily in those 3 guys, and Carmelo was the only one they got their money’s worth from. People who had a bone to pick with Melo liked to pretend that Wilson Chandler and Gallo were a big deal, but those guys are a dime a dozen. Would they have got them past Indiana or Miami, given that Chandler got worked and Amar’e was either hurt or hurting himself by trying to do trick dunks in warmups and punching fire extinguishers after games?

Once Phil came and started signing washed up and injured guys like Noah, it was over.

Melo was the only important person in that organization who did his job from 2011-2017.

 

[Madbiker]

Melo's body didn't hold up as well as some other star quality players and he has aged a lot the last couple years. Still he was an exceptional scorer for most of his career. He had the misfortune to never be on team with other good talent (until this year and past his prime). His story is a lot like Patrick Ewing. He was the best or at worst 2nd best center in the NBA for most of his career but the Knick management could never put the right cast around him. He never had the needed perimeter shooters to win a title. So his legacy is maligned because he never won a ring. Melo is viewed the same way. IMO it doesn't diminish him.

 

[skurey]

Melo is refusing to take a diminished role. He should just retire.

 

[two3zone]

Melo is refusing to take a diminished role. He should just retire.

Based on his comments he refuses to use proper English as well.

All kidding aside, reading his comments, he did nothing this year to show that he deserves a starting role. No excuse that a 3rd option shoots as poorly as he did.

 

[OrangeDW]

Melo is refusing to take a diminished role. He should just retire.

He took a diminished role all season and is due 28 million...why would he retire?

I’d eat corn dogs all summer, come in at 275, and jack 3’s all next season for 28 million.

 

[two3zone]

He took a diminished role all season and is due 28 million...why would he retire?

I’d eat corn dogs all summer, come in at 275, and jack 3’s all next season for 28 million.

It's hogwash but he's also saying he's going to opt out because he wants to start.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's hogwash but he's also saying he's going to opt out because he wants to start.

Right. Either way, retirement doesn’t seem to be in the cards. Disappointing season but it’s not like he’s a scrub. He was putting up pretty good numbers before they made him a spot up shooter, and even still he got 16 ppg.

 

[two3zone]

Right. Either way, retirement doesn’t seem to be in the cards. Disappointing season but it’s not like he’s a scrub. He was putting up pretty good numbers before they made him a spot up shooter, and even still he got 16 ppg.

He's not a scrub but he's not a starter and his attitude is awful and makes a ton of money his last year. Can't imagine teams lining up to trade for him.

 

[OrangeDW]

He's not a scrub but he's not a starter and his attitude is awful and makes a ton of money his last year. Can't imagine teams lining up to trade for him.

I think he can be a starter depending on the team. Lots of that is dependent on who he’s out there with. There’s players he’s better than that start, and there’s players better than him that come off the bench.

I don’t think his attitude is bad. He wants to play and he’s used to being a bigtime player- nothing wrong with that IMO.

But yeah, 28 million is nuts for what he’s bringing to the table at this point.

 

[br801]

Melo's body didn't hold up as well as some other star quality players and he has aged a lot the last couple years. Still he was an exceptional scorer for most of his career. He had the misfortune to never be on team with other good talent (until this year and past his prime). His story is a lot like Patrick Ewing. He was the best or at worst 2nd best center in the NBA for most of his career but the Knick management could never put the right cast around him. He never had the needed perimeter shooters to win a title. So his legacy is maligned because he never won a ring. Melo is viewed the same way. IMO it doesn't diminish him.

Yeah, so far his body has only held up well enough to play 70 games per season, averaging 24.1/6.5/3 in about 36 minutes per game, and score over 25,000 points, placing him 22nd among all NBA/ABA players.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He's probably tired of getting blamed for a load of stuff.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, so far his body has only held up well enough to play 70 games per season, averaging 24.1/6.5/3 in about 36 minutes per game, and score over 25,000 points, placing him 22nd among all NBA/ABA players.

Should’ve been 25-10-5 and won a championship regardless of teammates and been a top 10 player of all time. No excuses.

 

[Ghost]

All kidding aside, reading his comments, he did nothing this year to show that he deserves a starting role. No excuse that a 3rd option shoots as poorly as he did.

I think he's saying he was misused as the team didn't really have a role for him - so no way to really judge this year. Even Donovan often talked about Melo agreeing to not be an ISO player, etc...certainly playing against his strengths.

 

[cuseinseattle]

He's not a scrub but he's not a starter and his attitude is awful and makes a ton of money his last year. Can't imagine teams lining up to trade for him.

I don’t think his attitude was bad at all.

 

[br801]

Should’ve been 25-10-5 and won a championship regardless of teammates and been a top 10 player of all time. No excuses.

For sure. All those 25/10/5 guys are the truly elite players.

 

[sufandu]

Melo's legacy is this. He chased money and location instead of chasing rings. That's cool, as long that's what he wanted.

He could've taken less money, still been in the upper .1% of earnersin the U.S., and put himself in a better position to win. He messed that decision up twice. For me, that's not hindsight. I thought he made the wrong choice at the time, both times, assuming winning was the primary goal. I was never a Stoudemire fan and when he resigned I had no faith in Phil. Given his age at that point, and how short most player's primes are, I thought Melo's window was too small to take a chance on Phil building a team quickly.

I wish I had been wrong because I always wanted a 'cuse player to lead a NBA team to a ring.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

This is all true. And no one should begrudge what Anthony did.

But when evaluating his legacy, it is both the case that he had largely crappy talent around him, and that this was in part his doing. He took the money, which was both his right and IMO the right decision. But it’s hard to then turn around and say, well of course he didn’t win the last few years of his prime - look at the dreck he had to play with. He picked it, and his decision limited what the Knicks could do. (Sure they’re the Knicks so they probably would have used the extra money to pay $20 million to darko.)

dude forced a trade to new york and thus knicks have to give up assets that would have been useful had he just waited out the season and signed with them as a free agent.

 

[cuseinseattle]

This just goes to show taking a reduced role and playing a role not ideally suited for you makes no sense. I get he wanted to win but in the end you just get vilified as the whole reason it doesn’t work while Westbrook chucks up 30-40 shots a game at a field goal percentage below the league average. It’s like playing through injury makes no sense. People say players should do it if it helps the team and then when the results are reduced because the players hurt they are a bum now. They could have rested Melo more due to his knee, they could have had him post up other 4’s and run some stuff for him but they wanted to have Russ take the ball to the rim 100 times a game and just have Melo space the floor and shoot 3’s. Melo is aging and his skills are diminishing but the idea that he is their main problem is preposterous.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Melo's legacy is this. He chased money and location instead of chasing rings. That's cool, as long that's what he wanted.

He could've taken less money, still been in the upper .1% of earnersin the U.S., and put himself in a better position to win. He messed that decision up twice. For me, that's not hindsight. I thought he made the wrong choice at the time, both times, assuming winning was the primary goal. I was never a Stoudemire fan and when he resigned I had no faith in Phil. Given his age at that point, and how short most player's primes are, I thought Melo's window was too small to take a chance on Phil building a team quickly.

I wish I had been wrong because I always wanted a 'cuse player to lead a NBA team to a ring.

I find this take so old and devoid of logic. Where should he have gone? In this place he would have beaten the Spurs, Lebron, Kobe and the Warriors. His legacy will be that he was an elite scorer and one of the top 20 scorers in Nba history but he never won a title. Professional sports are the only place where maximizing your value financially is criticized. If a lawyer leaves a law firm to go to another for twice the money no one says he is disloyal and only cares about money.

 

[cuseinseattle]

dude forced a trade to new york and thus knicks have to give up assets that would have been useful had he just waited out the season and signed with them as a free agent.

Melo was the general manager of the Knicks while playing for the nuggets. Impressive

 

[cuseinseattle]

Melo is refusing to take a diminished role. He should just retire.

What would you call his role this year

 

[skurey]

What would you call his role this year

He was a starter playing 30+ minutes a game. Needs to be a bench player if he wants to be on a winning team.

 

[sufandu]

I find this take so old and devoid of logic. Where should he have gone? In this place he would have beaten the Spurs, Lebron, Kobe and the Warriors. His legacy will be that he was an elite scorer and one of the top 20 scorers in Nba history but he never won a title. Professional sports are the only place where maximizing your value financially is criticized. If a lawyer leaves a law firm to go to another for twice the money no one says he is disloyal and only cares about money.

Do lawyers compete for annual championships? And yes, within the profession, there are lawyers that are looked down upon because they care only about the money. You've heard of ambulance chasers, haven't you? There are other careers where money chasers are criticised. In healthcare there are doctors, physical therapists, etc. that are all about the money and others that are willing to make less to provide superior care.

I never said anything about loyalty. I said he made two poor decisions with regard to putting himself in a better position to win a championship, if that was the top priority. Just because he was a "max contract" guy doesn't mean he was required to take max contracts. We're not talking about someone deciding between one job that makes him poor and one that makes him wealthy. We're talking about one 8 figure annual salary versus another. That's not a salary difference that determines whether you have the ability send your kids to private school versus public or if you can live on the good side of town versus the bad or if you have to buy a used car versus a new one. It's the difference between living in a mansion versus a more expensive mansion or which luxury car(s) do I buy or how many resort vacations do I take.

The take that is old and devoid of logic is the one where poor Melo was forced into situations where no decent players were around to help him. He wasn't forced anywhere. He had the same options other elite players had when he was in his prime. Was he guaranteed a championship if he went elsewhere? Of course not. Could he have taken less money to put himself in better positions to compete for one? Absolutely.