Carmelo's Woes

[alphaorange]

So what if he threatened to go to NJ? If the knicks felt the price was too high they should have said bye. But they wanted him at any costs. Plus, Melo was there 17 years. The knicks trading away players and giving him the max, did not kill that team for 17 years. Utter mismanagement did. They didn’t know how to draft nor build a team.

Most of your reply has nothing to do with my post to you. The only thing I said was melo went to the Knicks on terms he set, then complained about lack of talent after those terms stripped NY of any way to get talent. At no point did I say he was responsible for the last 17+ years. Also, all Melo had to do was say he wouldn't extend with the Nets and NY would have had to give less as the Nets would have offered much less for only the chance to resign him.

 

[Newhouser]

This is a loyal board which is great - as a cuse and knicks fan I love and appreciate Melo. He got Cuse an NC and made my Knicks at least partially relevant during this dark age. That said, in my opinion if he went to any other school he would be getting grilled here. He is what he is - he will be known as a great scorer, an underrated rebounder, a poor defender and a guy who never learned how to facilitate ball movement. Right wrong of indifferent he will also be known as a guy who chased max money in an era when better players did not always choose that route(Durant, Duncan, etc).

Sadly he will also be remembered for limited playoff success - I know he took Denver to the Conference finals but they were the two seed that year and they beat NOLA and a 6 seeded Dallas team that had knocked off the Spurs. Not sure it was the march thru Atlanta that has been portrayed here. He is a HOF player and one of the great scorers in the history of the game, but his inability to adapt to the changing game and his changing skill set place in the league is something that held him back from next level greatness. ALl this does not mean I don't like or appreciate what he has accomplished.

 

[OrangeAl]

I just think his legs are shot .. think of all the miles / minutes on him .. he was ridden hard and put away wet since his freshman year at SU . Humans aren’t built to do this forever ..

d Wade’s legs are gone too.. he’s now a crafty type shooter who has a good game once in a while but no consistency

Lebron is an outlier .. an absolute physical freak of nature who is basically the Bruce Willis character in Unbreakable

I wonder if Melo can get another year out of those legs by dropping twenty pounds. That might impair his iso game, but that's probably gone anyway if he's still with the Thunder.

 

[MCuse44]

Melo gonna be Melo. The thunder played him out of position. Props to Melo for being a PRO. I think if anything this proves durant made to the right move. Westbrook cant win! Dudes better at fighting fans than winning playoff games.

 

[Fat tire 13]

I spent some time looking at the career stats of the top 25-30 scorers of all times. A select few maintained a high levels into the late 30s, but a vast majority started falling off the map around 35-36. Melo is 34 and has lots of mileage. While the dropoff was sudden, it is not unusual for someone his age. If he doesn't bounce back next year, it could very well be the beginning of the end

For the debate about his career, it is strange that he is such a polarizing character. I think many, especially Cuse fans, wanted to see him be a top 20 all time player in the NBA. The reality is he is still probably between 50-75, which is not too shabby if you consider all the greats that have played in the NBA over the years.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I just think his legs are shot .. think of all the miles / minutes on him .. he was ridden hard and put away wet since his freshman year at SU . Humans aren’t built to do this forever ..

d Wade’s legs are gone too.. he’s now a crafty type shooter who has a good game once in a while but no consistency

Lebron is an outlier .. an absolute physical freak of nature who is basically the Bruce Willis character in Unbreakable

Not enough attention is given to the fact that over a fifteen year NBA career with the minutes he’s played Lebron James has never suffered a major injury.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I just think his legs are shot .. think of all the miles / minutes on him .. he was ridden hard and put away wet since his freshman year at SU . Humans aren’t built to do this forever ..

d Wade’s legs are gone too.. he’s now a crafty type shooter who has a good game once in a while but no consistency

Lebron is an outlier .. an absolute physical freak of nature who is basically the Bruce Willis character in Unbreakable

His off-season dedication to the Olympics had to take a toll, leaving little rest.

 

[newmexicuse]

This is a loyal board which is great - as a cuse and knicks fan I love and appreciate Melo. He got Cuse an NC and made my Knicks at least partially relevant during this dark age. That said, in my opinion if he went to any other school he would be getting grilled here. He is what he is - he will be known as a great scorer, an underrated rebounder, a poor defender and a guy who never learned how to facilitate ball movement. Right wrong of indifferent he will also be known as a guy who chased max money in an era when better players did not always choose that route(Durant, Duncan, etc).

Sadly he will also be remembered for limited playoff success - I know he took Denver to the Conference finals but they were the two seed that year and they beat NOLA and a 6 seeded Dallas team that had knocked off the Spurs. Not sure it was the march thru Atlanta that has been portrayed here. He is a HOF player and one of the great scorers in the history of the game, but his inability to adapt to the changing game and his changing skill set place in the league is something that held him back from next level greatness. ALl this does not mean I don't like or appreciate what he has accomplished.

How about when LeBron, Wade, & Bosh all took less to sign w Miami. I think that had been planned for years, and Lebron wanted Melo to be a part of that, but his pursuit of max dollars affected the timing of his free agency. Even if the timing was right, I doubt Melo would have taken less to get those titles.

I guess LaLa was really high maintenance.

 

[OrangeDW]

How about when LeBron, Wade, & Bosh all took less to sign w Miami. I think that had been planned for years, and Lebron wanted Melo to be a part of that, but his pursuit of max dollars affected the timing of his free agency. Even if the timing was right, I doubt Melo would have taken less to get those titles.

I guess LaLa was really high maintenance.

Remember when people criticized LeBron and Bosh for doing that? In fact LeBron haters still use it to try to “devalue” what he accomplished there. Now it’s criticize Melo for not doing that? People will criticize either way. It doesn’t matter though.

 

[newmexicuse]

Remember when people criticized LeBron and Bosh for doing that? In fact LeBron haters still use it to try to “devalue” what he accomplished there. Now it’s criticize Melo for not doing that? People will criticize either way. It doesn’t matter though.

It just highlights the difference between LeBron, Wade, Melo, and Bosh. They all came out in the same draft. Their careers will always be linked together.

Those other guys valued being a NBA champion above all else. Maybe, LeBron was willing to stack the deck to get his first title, but he has long since proved he is a legitimate champion even with minimal help.

Maybe, Melo did not value NBA titles because he has a NCAA Title and Olympic titles.

In the end, Melo could never say enough is enough. What is the real difference to him if in the course of his career he makes $160 M instead of a $ 150 M or whatever the numbers may be. As a champion that could easily be made up in endorsements.

Bottom line, Melo has chosen to max out his dollars, I hope he has found happiness and satisfaction in that.

However, the small amount less he might have earned to have gotten one or more titles had he done things differently and/or been glorified as the savior of NY basketball would have solidified his legacy in ways far beyond whatever a few extra dollars might have gotten him over the years, and by the way, what exactly is it that those extra dollars have obtained for him? Couldn't even help him to better his marriage.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It just highlights the difference between LeBron, Wade, Melo, and Bosh. They all came out in the same draft. Their careers will always be linked together.

Those other guys valued being a NBA champion above all else. Maybe, LeBron was willing to stack the deck to get his first title, but he has long since proved he is a legitimate champion even with minimal help.

Maybe, Melo did not value NBA titles because he has a NCAA Title and Olympic titles.

In the end, Melo could never say enough is enough. What is the real difference to him if in the course of his career he makes $160 M instead of a $ 150 M or whatever the numbers may be. As a champion that could easily be made up in endorsements.

Bottom line, Melo has chosen to max out his dollars, I hope he has found happiness and satisfaction in that.

However, the small amount less he might have earned to have gotten one or more titles had he done things differently and/or been glorified as the savior of NY basketball would have solidified his legacy in ways far beyond whatever a few extra dollars might have gotten him over the years, and by the way, what exactly is it that those extra dollars have obtained for him? Couldn't even help him to better his marriage.

No offense to your post, but when did Lebron ever win a title with minimal help?

 

[newmexicuse]

No offense to your post, but when did Lebron ever win a title with minimal help?

From Wikipedia:

The win by the Cavaliers was the first major professional sports championship won by a team based in Clevelandsince 1964, and the first-ever championship won by the Cavaliers franchise. NBA Finals MVP winner LeBron Jamespropelled the Cavaliers to the historic comeback.[2][3] James had a historically great Finals performance, becoming the first player in NBA history to lead all players in a playoff series in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks.[4]

 

[Cusefan0307]

Seems like a slap in the face to Kyrie who hit the game winning shot and averaged 27 and 5 that series. That's better than any final's Pippen ever had with MJ.

 

[sufandu]

So basically he’s a bad GM and a bad ring chaser? I remember a time when the second thing would be applauded. He tried to win with his own teams rather than joining someone elses.

Melo’s legacy is “he didn’t run to LeBron’s team or the Spurs at first chance”? I don’t think so.

Melo’s legacy is he was one of the better scorers in the league for a long time. IMO.

Actually he didn't. He left his first team. And he did it in a manner that made it more difficult to put pieces around him with his new team but that allowed him to make the max available. Then, when he resigned, he again took the max available. Did he do anything wrong? Nope, and I never said he did. Could he have put himself in a better position to win by taking less money? Yep. He could have chosen a team with a more established coach and/or gm. He could've taken less money to lure other good players. Last year Kevin Durant took $10 million less than he could have to allow his team to resign two important pieces. Other guys have done it too.

Melo has been a HOF player throughout his career and is one of the great scorers ever, but the people that claim he was put in these horrible situations where he was surrounded with scrubs, ignore the power he had to influence his situation when he was at his peak.

 

[Knicks411]

Pretty much no one wins a title with minimal help. It's just about impossible.

Seems like a slap in the face to Kyrie who hit the game winning shot and averaged 27 and 5 that series. That's better than any final's Pippen ever had with MJ.

If we don't count defense, probably. Pippen averaged 21-9-8 in the 93 finals, first one I checked. And he was maybe the best perimeter defender on the planet/

 

[Cusefan0307]

Pretty much no one wins a title with minimal help. It's just about impossible.



If we don't count defense, probably. Pippen averaged 21-9-8 in the 93 finals, first one I checked. And he was maybe the best perimeter defender on the planet/

For sure. Dirk dragging the corpse's of Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion with some help from JJ Barea and Jason Terry is probably the closest I can think of.

 

[HOFCeluck]

For sure. Dirk dragging the corpse's of Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion with some help from JJ Barea and Jason Terry is probably the closest I can think of.

Lebron was afraid to post up JJ Barea.

 

[OrangeDW]

It just highlights the difference between LeBron, Wade, Melo, and Bosh. They all came out in the same draft. Their careers will always be linked together.

Those other guys valued being a NBA champion above all else. Maybe, LeBron was willing to stack the deck to get his first title, but he has long since proved he is a legitimate champion even with minimal help.

Maybe, Melo did not value NBA titles because he has a NCAA Title and Olympic titles.

In the end, Melo could never say enough is enough. What is the real difference to him if in the course of his career he makes $160 M instead of a $ 150 M or whatever the numbers may be. As a champion that could easily be made up in endorsements.

Bottom line, Melo has chosen to max out his dollars, I hope he has found happiness and satisfaction in that.

However, the small amount less he might have earned to have gotten one or more titles had he done things differently and/or been glorified as the savior of NY basketball would have solidified his legacy in ways far beyond whatever a few extra dollars might have gotten him over the years, and by the way, what exactly is it that those extra dollars have obtained for him? Couldn't even help him to better his marriage.

LeBron had Wade and Bosh, and then Kyrie and Love. Plenty of help. Same as everyone else that has won it.

Melo didn’t have the foresight to see that MVP candidate Amar’e was about to be washed. What that has to do with Melo, I don’t know. He did his job.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Melo and LeBron are essentially the same age, correct? I know Bron has been a physical freak of a specimen forever. Why does it seem that Melo never tried to commit himself to maintaining his body the way LJ did? I think that's probably the main disappoint I have with Melo over the years.

 

[Knicks411]

For sure. Dirk dragging the corpse's of Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion with some help from JJ Barea and Jason Terry is probably the closest I can think of.

I was thinking maybe the 94 Rockets?

 

[Knicks411]

Lebron was afraid to post up JJ Barea.

Which is incredible, because did you see him yesterday? Unstoppable in the post.

 

[OrangeDW]

Melo and LeBron are essentially the same age, correct? I know Bron has been a physical freak of a specimen forever. Why does it seem that Melo never tried to commit himself to maintaining his body the way LJ did? I think that's probably the main disappoint I have with Melo over the years.

They were never close to being on the same level physically in the first place though.

Melo had good athleticism at best, and it faded at a normal age and after a normal number of seasons/games played.

LeBron is one of the most insane physical specimens in sports history, and that his athleticism still has faded very little at this point is very unique.

 

[Knicks411]

They were never close to being on the same level physically in the first place though.

Melo had good athleticism at best, and it faded at a normal age and after a normal number of seasons/games played.

LeBron is one of the most insane physical specimens in sports history, and that his athleticism still has faded very little at this point is very unique.

Yeah I don't think it's fair to compare anyone to Lebron from a physical POV. Insert your PED comment here

Melo has declined as an athlete, but he's been in the league a long time. Lot of wear and tear. (though i do think it's fair to say maybe he could've stayed in slightly better shape. I did think he was a little chunky. but who am i to judge)

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Yeah I don't think it's fair to compare anyone to Lebron from a physical POV. Insert your PED comment here

Melo has declined as an athlete, but he's been in the league a long time. Lot of wear and tear. (though i do think it's fair to say maybe he could've stayed in slightly better shape. I did think he was a little chunky. but who am i to judge)

That's all I was saying. I never meant to imply he could match athletic ability. Just have a dedicated approach to off-season training like LeBron.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Melo gonna be Melo. The thunder played him out of position. Props to Melo for being a PRO. I think if anything this proves durant made to the right move. Westbrook cant win! Dudes better at fighting fans than winning playoff games.

Westbrook is not meant to play with any players who aren't 100 percent subservient to him. He's incapable of modifying his game to the supporting cast he has. he's the poster child for why counting stats don't mean jack squat. Is he a good player? he is. Is he a great player...he has GREAT player attributes for sure. once in a while he puts it together and his numbers and the teams success are linked. but overall, i think you don't win with him..not championships.

up 3-2 vs golden state in Durant's last year there, once Clay Thompson started going crazy, westbrook reverted to total and complete hero ball and lost them the game