Carmelo's Woes

[DoctorBombay]

dude forced a trade to new york and thus knicks have to give up assets that would have been useful had he just waited out the season and signed with them as a free agent.

Nobody "forced" anything- that's just illogical. Melo is an employee who wanted more money.
The employer, the NYK front office, panicked and pulled the trigger instead of calling his bluff and waiting.
Why blame the guy getting paid, instead of the ones doing the paying? Does that make any viable sense at all?
Yet the typical disgruntled fan take is:"Its Melo's fault for forcing a trade, and making the Knicks pay him".
That's silly.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

I find this take so old and devoid of logic. Where should he have gone? In this place he would have beaten the Spurs, Lebron, Kobe and the Warriors. His legacy will be that he was an elite scorer and one of the top 20 scorers in Nba history but he never won a title. Professional sports are the only place where maximizing your value financially is criticized. If a lawyer leaves a law firm to go to another for twice the money no one says he is disloyal and only cares about money.

Its not that he never won a title - more that he was always completely irrelevant in terms of a title - there has never been another top 25 scorer of all time that meant nothing every year in terms of winning a ring - that's just the plain truth

 

[OrangeDW]

Melo's legacy is this. He chased money and location instead of chasing rings. That's cool, as long that's what he wanted.

He could've taken less money, still been in the upper .1% of earnersin the U.S., and put himself in a better position to win. He messed that decision up twice. For me, that's not hindsight. I thought he made the wrong choice at the time, both times, assuming winning was the primary goal. I was never a Stoudemire fan and when he resigned I had no faith in Phil. Given his age at that point, and how short most player's primes are, I thought Melo's window was too small to take a chance on Phil building a team quickly.

I wish I had been wrong because I always wanted a 'cuse player to lead a NBA team to a ring.

So basically he’s a bad GM and a bad ring chaser? I remember a time when the second thing would be applauded. He tried to win with his own teams rather than joining someone elses.

Melo’s legacy is “he didn’t run to LeBron’s team or the Spurs at first chance”? I don’t think so.

Melo’s legacy is he was one of the better scorers in the league for a long time. IMO.

 

[OrangeDW]

Its not that he never won a title - more that he was always completely irrelevant in terms of a title - there has never been another top 25 scorer of all time that meant nothing every year in terms of winning a ring - that's just the plain truth

Vince Carter. Alex English. Dominque Wilkins. There’s three right there.

Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen were all on that list too...until they all ended up on the same team.

 

[br801]

This thread seems to be the grand feast for a fan base that infamously likes to eat its own.

 

[newmexicuse]

https://nypost.com/2018/04/28/carmelo-anthony-is-done-making-sacrifices-for-thunder/

Carmelo says he will not take a bench role.

As much as i love melo he has always been about the money.

Nobody is going to trade for him and pay his $ 28 M salary. OKC would probably have to throw in Westbrook to get anybody to take Melo. If he opts out, he would probably be lucky to get a deal in the $ 8M range.

No way he will leave $ 20m on the table in what will surely be his last big payday season.

So what is the point of his being disruptive and saying he will not accept a bench role ?

Sorry, melo, but you need to grow up, take your $ 28M with class, and accept any role they assign you next season to try and help the team.

The year after, you can always chase a title if you think there is a better situation for you to do that.

PS - The deal in which the Knicks traded Melo is looking pretty good for them right now.

 

[two3zone]

There's another thread about this, I alluded to him having a bad attitude, just read it again and still thinks he does. Zero sympathy for him.

 

[Waltdods]

Vince Carter. Alex English. Dominque Wilkins. There’s three right there.

Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen were all on that list too...until they all ended up on the same team.

It’s also not even really accurate. Denver was the 2 seed in a loaded western conference in 09, made it to the wcf and took two games off the lakers. He led 50-plus win teams for most of his prime.

I wish he had more success, but there’s a strong tendency to ignore big chunks of his career in some of these discussions.

 

[mayselc]

The opinion that any concession Melo could have made would have resulted in the Knicks being a legitimate championship contender is laughable.

Players don't win championships. Not LeBron, Not Kobe, Not Jordan. Neither do coaches. Organizations win championships. Lakers, Spurs, Heat, Pistons, Celtics, Bulls, Rockets, etc.

Melo could have played for half his salary and the Knicks still would have failed. If you replace Paul Pierce with Melo, the Celtics still win.

Now for being on another team, who's to say? But once he signed with the Knicks, he was loyal and played his heart out. It was their fault, not his. End of story.

I will say that most of the NBA champions the last 20 years had one player better than peak-Melo. But I don't think any of them had two. In fact, I think that if the Lakers could have gotten Melo in 2007 instead of Odom, they would have had another three-peat instead of losing to the Celtics.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Nobody "forced" anything- that's just illogical. Melo is an employee who wanted more money.
The employer, the NYK front office, panicked and pulled the trigger instead of calling his bluff and waiting.
Why blame the guy getting paid, instead of the ones doing the paying? Does that make any viable sense at all?
Yet the typical disgruntled fan take is:"Its Melo's fault for forcing a trade, and making the Knicks pay him".
That's silly.

Player's force situations all the time because , especially in the NBA, they have leverage. They can basically create an untenable situation in the locker room / club house and make it a living hell for everyone, so they "force" a trade. Melo's mistake was had he simply waited, he could have signed with the knicks, received a big fat contract, and had better players around him. If winning was a priority, that is what he would have done. However, his actions throughout his career have shown that winning was not his priority. I have no problem with that. I think these guys should go for the buck every single time, but let's then not lie about what they did

 

[newmexicuse]

The opinion that any concession Melo could have made would have resulted in the Knicks being a legitimate championship contender is laughable.

Players don't win championships. Not LeBron, Not Kobe, Not Jordan. Neither do coaches. Organizations win championships. Lakers, Spurs, Heat, Pistons, Celtics, Bulls, Rockets, etc.

Melo could have played for half his salary and the Knicks still would have failed. If you replace Paul Pierce with Melo, the Celtics still win.

Now for being on another team, who's to say? But once he signed with the Knicks, he was loyal and played his heart out. It was their fault, not his. End of story.

I will say that most of the NBA champions the last 20 years had one player better than peak-Melo. But I don't think any of them had two. In fact, I think that if the Lakers could have gotten Melo in 2007 instead of Odom, they would have had another three-peat instead of losing to the Celtics.

the point was that the knicks had to strip the roster including future draft picks to get melo. if melo did not force a trade and signed with the knicks for slightly less a s a free agent, and the knicks still had all of their young assets and picks, it might have unfolded very differently.

 

[rrlbees]

the point was that the knicks had to strip the roster including future draft picks to get melo. if melo did not force a trade and signed with the knicks for slightly less a s a free agent, and the knicks still had all of their young assets and picks, it might have unfolded very differently.

The knicks didn’t have to do the trade. They could have waited till the following year. The team has all the leverage.

 

[newmexicuse]

The knicks didn’t have to do the trade. They could have waited till the following year. The team has all the leverage.

that is incorrect, melo wanted his max deal. if the knicks did not do the trade, melo would have been willing to go to the nets, who also offered quite a bit for him.

dolan pressured walsh to get the deal done, always had the feeling if truly left to walsh that he would have offered much less.

 

[rrlbees]

that is incorrect, melo wanted his max deal. if the knicks did not do the trade, melo would have been willing to go to the nets, who also offered quite a bit for him.

dolan pressured walsh to get the deal done, always had the feeling if truly left to walsh that he would have offered much less.

The knicks did not have to do it. Since they did, it shows they were willing to do anything to get him. They have the ability to say no thanks, it’s too heavy a price. The leverage is always with the team. A player can’t force a trade to a team.

 

[OrangeDW]

Player's force situations all the time because , especially in the NBA, they have leverage. They can basically create an untenable situation in the locker room / club house and make it a living hell for everyone, so they "force" a trade. Melo's mistake was had he simply waited, he could have signed with the knicks, received a big fat contract, and had better players around him. If winning was a priority, that is what he would have done. However, his actions throughout his career have shown that winning was not his priority. I have no problem with that. I think these guys should go for the buck every single time, but let's then not lie about what they did

Fair enough, but he should also be evaluated as a player based on how he actually played. When people point out a relative lack of team accomplishments, it’s fair to point out that he did his job and never really had the team around him.

Melo’s contract decisions have zero to do with his on court play.

 

[mayselc]

that is incorrect, melo wanted his max deal. if the knicks did not do the trade, melo would have been willing to go to the nets, who also offered quite a bit for him.

dolan pressured walsh to get the deal done, always had the feeling if truly left to walsh that he would have offered much less.

If a decision made by the owner of the team isn't "the team's fault," I don't know what is. Dolan and the string of opportunists and idiots he hired hold all the blame.

 

[alphaorange]

Wow , sorry I hit a sore spot in my 2 sentence post. He isn't playing for the Knicks. Have you watched this current series because I have. No need to take pot shots just because you don't agree. I don't see what upset you so much in my two sentence statement about his loss of explosiveness and inability to elevate. I did put in 4 words that were relatively complimentary about his defense(compared to his Knicks days) that you certainly seem overly resentful of. I was being honest in my personal opinion but having no NBA team allegiance of course I don't blame him for the demise and fall of the Knicks franchise either. I never got into what his possible legacy is or should be in my post, like you did in your reply.

Come on, get over yourself. I never said blamed the Knicks poor results on him. His defense was roundly criticized this year, especially against Utah, and the way he forced himself to NY did indeed hamstring the team. Of course, the NY front office was complicit, as well. You struck no nerve with me, I just found your comments inaccurate and replied. You are the one who seems out of kilter. I meant nothing personal. Remind me again of the "pot shots" I took, please.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Am I confused ? I read that a young kid in high school/college should always go for the money - max their worth because the chance for college tournaments/championships, team goals etc shouldn’t be an obstacle nor prioritized over one’s future professional goal of earning big bucks. College fans, coaches are selfish wanting a young player to satisfy college team goals over the player’s personal/financial goals.

However how does it occur that once a player makes the NBA, a players’ ultimate goal and evaluation of ones worth changes and should be winning a championship with earning money a secondary issue, even leaving money on the table in order to satisfy an NBA team(fan) goals. So NBA fans, coaches etc now judge a players’ career and worth based on championships, expecting them to make monetary sacrifices, yet that’s not selfish?

I hear some of the same people taking both these sides based on what? Aren’t they the same thing? Guess I don’t get it (not uncommon for me -lol)

 

[alphaorange]

The knicks didn’t have to do the trade. They could have waited till the following year. The team has all the leverage.

Melo threatened to go to NJ via trade..and he would have. A trade was the only way to get the max money. He was not willing to be a FA and sacrifice money. That was certainly his right but to complain about lack of team talent after the fact is not right...

 

[DoctorBombay]

Player's force situations all the time because , especially in the NBA, they have leverage. They can basically create an untenable situation in the locker room / club house and make it a living hell for everyone, so they "force" a trade. Melo's mistake was had he simply waited, he could have signed with the knicks, received a big fat contract, and had better players around him. If winning was a priority, that is what he would have done. However, his actions throughout his career have shown that winning was not his priority. I have no problem with that. I think these guys should go for the buck every single time, but let's then not lie about what they did

And teams tank and have chemistry issues all the time. If he made the locker room toxic in order to "force" a trade, then so be it. The idea that a team's management is held hostage by any player and forced to make untenable deals, is simply illogical.

that is incorrect, melo wanted his max deal. if the knicks did not do the trade, melo would have been willing to go to the nets, who also offered quite a bit for him.

dolan pressured walsh to get the deal done, always had the feeling if truly left to walsh that he would have offered much less.

Who gives a rat's azz what Melo "wanted"? If he wanted a Max deal at the expense of gutting the Knicks, then its up to the Knicks to decide that the cost is too high and, wait for it...NOT make the trade!
Let him go to the Nets then and get his money grab. Melo simply out-foxed an incompetent Knick front office, and instead of blaming Dolan and his clueless minions, Knicks fan would rather blame Melo. He was doing business, being a capitalist and seeking the max compensation that the market was willing to offer. That's called America.

 

[newmexicuse]

Am I confused ? A young kid in high school/college should always go for the money - max their worth because the chance for college tournaments/championships, team goals etc shouldn’t be an obstacle nor prioritized over one’s future professional goal of earning big bucks. College fans, coaches are selfish wanting a young player to satisfy college team goals over the player’s personal/financial goals.

However how does it occur that once a player makes the NBA, a players’ ultimate goal and evaluation of ones worth changes and should be winning a championship with earning money a secondary issue, even leaving money on the table in order to satisfy an NBA team(fan) goals. So NBA fans now judge a players’ career and worth based on championships, expecting them to make monetary sacrifices yet that’s not selfish?

I hear some of the same people taking both these sides based on what? Aren’t they the same thing? Guess I don’t get it (not uncommon for me -lol)

the majority of athletes want to win and take pride in being the best that they can be. nobody is saying melo should have gone to golden state just to get a title and have played for peanuts. point is melo was making fabulous money. it is just sad that he made his new team strip the roster so he could make pocket change more.I

it was almost like his ego demanded to see a team trade as much as possible to enhance his own self esteem. he put ego and a few extra pocket change dollars ahead of winning.

yes, i agree the knicks were idiots to do that deal, but that does not change melo not valuing winning the way most other athletes in that situation would have done.

 

[rrlbees]

Melo threatened to go to NJ via trade..and he would have. A trade was the only way to get the max money. He was not willing to be a FA and sacrifice money. That was certainly his right but to complain about lack of team talent after the fact is not right...

So what if he threatened to go to NJ? If the knicks felt the price was too high they should have said bye. But they wanted him at any costs. Plus, Melo was there 17 years. The knicks trading away players and giving him the max, did not kill that team for 17 years. Utter mismanagement did. They didn’t know how to draft nor build a team.

 

[jncuse]

Carmelo has just been the victim of getting old quickly (and then is typically the norm for a player that survives until near his mid 30's), and the game changing around him where he was more effective in the prior style.

He is no longer a starter on a top profile team.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Eddie curry

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Carmelo has just been the victim of getting old quickly (and then is typically the norm for a player that survives until near his mid 30's), and the game changing around him where he was more effective in the prior style.

He is no longer a starter on a top profile team.

I just think his legs are shot .. think of all the miles / minutes on him .. he was ridden hard and put away wet since his freshman year at SU . Humans aren’t built to do this forever ..

d Wade’s legs are gone too.. he’s now a crafty type shooter who has a good game once in a while but no consistency

Lebron is an outlier .. an absolute physical freak of nature who is basically the Bruce Willis character in Unbreakable