Cooney was terrific in Atlantis

[orangefan13]

And you wonder why cuse players don't read message boards.

Cooney does so much outside the boxscore hes rarely going to have 7-8 assists on aveage like G or pull down 10 rebounds but hes a freaking SG/Combo guard get over it.

SG is one of those positions where you expect them to be the first second scoring option that is there job on better teams, and that is a blind perception that can cause people to hate. However, this team doesn't even have a first option. I don't think full time 1st or second option will ever be the right roll for Trev, but I will tell you what he does so much outside the box score on top of the good stats he brings. His hustle and never giving up on plays creates runs for the team that the biggest stat there is. Its not just he tries hard, he plays tough defense he handles the ball creates shots. He creates offense all over the court with and without the ball. He steals the ball well. He has forced numberous turnovers on inbounds this year. He presses and still gets back to stop transition.

Cooney leads and wins games by hustle alone, hes THAT good.

 

[Toga]

I no longer get exhausted watching him run around like a crazy person.

 

[RF2044]

No one has appointed me moderator yet but it would be a good idea.

I'm not commentating on his play because it doesn't go anywhere. Just saying the back and forth after every game he has gets annoying in both directions.

That would be a sorry day for the board.

If you don't enjoy the back and forth, or the topic, then there's a simple solution--don't click on the thread. Problem solved.

 

[MikeSU02]

Love this driving dimension to his game, as well as the complimentary ball handling.

Time for the Cooney-detractors--and you know who you are--to eat crow. This kid is a complete player this year.

What?

Prior to this game, he was at 37.1 FG% for the year, his career FG% is 37.o%.

Prior to this game he was at 32.4% 3FG% for the year, his career 3FG% is 32.8%.

Rebounds and assists are at career highs at around 3 each, but so are his TOs, also at 3 a game.

His advanced stats are down almost across the board for the year, but I'm not even going to venture into those if people already think his "critics" need to eat crow.

And let's look at his game today, since the stats above are for all games up to today:

FG: 5/16 (most attempts on team)
3FG: 2/8
FT: 3/5
Rebounds: 2
Assists: 5
Steals: 3
Turnovers: 5

He is exactly who he has been, with a higher usage rate.

 

[skurey]

That would be a sorry day for the board.

If you don't enjoy the back and forth, or the topic, then there's a simple solution--don't click on the thread. Problem solved.

OK here you go. Cooney is at best the 4th best player on our team. He is not leading us anywhere. If we depend on him to win games it will be a very long season.

 

[Shark90210]

Some have called me a Cooney critic. That's fine. I think he's taken some bad shots and has an unusually long leash from his coach and some of our fans.

That said, I really really like the way he's passing the ball this season. Such a huge improvement and hopefully a permanent part of his game. He's been very good overall.

bingo. all that us "Cooney haters" have asked for the past two years is that TC do more than chuck threes and brick fast break layups. he has finally started driving the ball. Its great to see. Its a better part of his game than shooting is. We dont need a volume chucker this year, we have a ton of shooters. its a nice team. better than I thought for sure.

 

[RF2044]

OK here you go. Cooney is at best the 4th best player on our team. He is not leading us anywhere. If we depend on him to win games it will be a very long season.

Just like we couldn't depend on him to win games against uconn or aTm. Great call. I don't know what the hell you're watching, but our two fifth year seniors have been major, major factors in how this team has played, the opportunities they're creating for teammates, and why they're winning.

 

[BludOrange]

A lot of kickouts to wide open shooters available if guards can prove opposing team will need help defense to slide over, to stop their penetration.

 

[skurey]

Just like we couldn't depend on him to win games against uconn or aTm. Great call. I don't know what the hell you're watching, but our two fifth year seniors have been major, major factors in how this team has played, and why they're winning.

This isn't your first year watching Cooney. There have been games when he's been our best player. More often than not he isn't. And that's OK because we have more talent than the past few years. But just because he has a couple game stretch of good play doesn't mean we were wrong before or that he's turned a corner.

 

[Shark90210]

Just like we couldn't depend on him to win games against uconn or aTm. Great call. I don't know what the hell you're watching, but our two fifth year seniors have been major, major factors in how this team has played, and why they're winning.

are you really putting Trevor and G in the same sentence? G is better and by a large margin at literally every aspect of basketball.

not sure why u are so bent out of shape, verbally attacking posters, when your opinion is just that. an opinion. no different than any one elses. we are all Cuse fans. and we all want to win. now that TC is a 3rd or 4th option, at best, we are a more complete team. this is a good thing.

lighten up. i thought this website was for debate. my apologies if its only supposed to be pro-everything. Im new to the site.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What?

Prior to this game, he was at 37.1 FG% for the year, his career FG% is 37.o%.

Prior to this game he was at 32.4% 3FG% for the year, his career 3FG% is 32.8%.

Rebounds and assists are at career highs at around 3 each, but so are his TOs, also at 3 a game.

His advanced stats are down almost across the board for the year, but I'm not even going to venture into those if people already think his "critics" need to eat crow.

And let's look at his game today, since the stats above are for all games up to today:

FG: 5/16 (most attempts on team)
3FG: 2/8
FT: 3/5
Rebounds: 2
Assists: 5
Steals: 3
Turnovers: 5

He is exactly who he has been, with a higher usage rate.

Difference is that those numbers seem sooooooo much better now that he's on a more balanced team.

 

[orangefan13]

OK here you go. Cooney is at best the 4th best player on our team. He is not leading us anywhere. If we depend on him to win games it will be a very long season.

In terms of nba potential,not in terms of this individual team.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Cooney just makes plays. He's not afraid to screw up and tries to bail out the team when everything else fails. So what if he isn't as efficient as some like, he's the second best ballhandler on the team, plays elite defense and on this team he will make plays when we need him to. I'm sure he still will have a hot streak where he carries us at some point dying the season, and he is still taking tons of defensive attention, while his ability to go to the basket has improved immensely.

I thought everyone who played substantial minutes got better this tournament besides Joseph, and there's still a ton of room to grow.

 

[MikeSU02]

Difference is that those numbers seem sooooooo much better now that he's on a more balanced team.

Can you expound on this? I'm not trying to have a "gotcha" moment here by any means.

To me, a more balanced team should mean his usage rate should go down, not up. And his percentages should go up as well.

 

[RF2044]

This isn't your first year watching Cooney. There have been games when he's been our best player. More often than not he isn't. And that's OK because we have more talent than the past few years. But just because he has a couple game stretch of good play doesn't mean we were wrong before or that he's turned a corner.

Oh, I didn't realize that we needed to factor in past years into a conversation about how he is playing NOW / THIS YEAR.

I don't dispute that he's been inconsistent in the past, that he's streaky, that it hasn't been frustrating at times watching him have lengthy cold stretches, or that the role the coaches designated for him wasn't something that could be criticized. But his struggles were also partially a function of team limitations. This team has limitations, too, but they aren't the ones that led to Cooney having the indiscriminate green light to crank it up and struggle in the past.

This year, there are better perimeter threats around him. This year, we're playing at a faster tempo. This year, defenses can't cheat as easily as they could in the past due to not being concerned about other players' ability to make them pay for overcompensating. And this year, Cooney is thriving.

You want to take more of a wait and see stance--fine. But this is shaping up to be similar to the same dopey dialogue about Andy Rautins during the 09-10 season. Especially if Cooney continues to play the way he has this week, and if the team continues to win.

We're already as a team exponentially better than most prognosticators [and most fans] expected -- and Cooney is a big part of that.

 

[RF2044]

are you really putting Trevor and G in the same sentence? G is better and by a large margin at literally every aspect of basketball.

not sure why u are so bent out of shape, verbally attacking posters, when your opinion is just that. an opinion. no different than any one elses. we are all Cuse fans. and we all want to win. now that TC is a 3rd or 4th option, at best, we are a more complete team. this is a good thing.

lighten up. i thought this website was for debate. my apologies if its only supposed to be pro-everything. Im new to the site.

Yes--they are both fifth year seniors and multi year starters, who are the primary cogs driving this team's engine.

G's potential relevant to Trevor is irrelevant. They are the key players on this team.

Spare me the straw man BS about pro everything. Like you posted in the other thread, you're not a Cooney fan. It shows.

 

[MikeSU02]

Cooney just makes plays. He's not afraid to screw up and tries to bail out the team when everything else fails. So what if he isn't as efficient as some like, he's the second best ballhandler on the team, plays elite defense and on this team he will make plays when we need him to. I'm sure he still will have a hot streak where he carries us at some point dying the season, and he is still taking tons of defensive attention, while his ability to go to the basket has improved immensely.

I thought everyone who played substantial minutes got better this tournament besides Joseph, and there's still a ton of room to grow.

It's not that he isn't as efficient as some like, it's that he's an inefficient player, period.

There are plenty of examples of inefficient players still adding considerable value to teams, but if you think he's efficient, we can agree to disagree.

No metric is showing that to be the case. None.

 

[orangefan13]

this is one of those threads were your waiting for jake, bees or general to shut all the doubters up. its going to happen eventually.

 

[Jake]

Meh. Stats. Generally, theiy're for losers. Eye test indicates he's playing better. Not sure how this is a debate.

If you don't like Cooney's style of play that's fine...but to look at stats...see their equal and automatically assume he's not playing better?!?!

Not all plays are equal. Gmac had crappy shooting stats, but name a player you'd rather shoot a three with game on the line. Not saying Cooney is Gmac, but his body of work, floor okay etc. is improved.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Can you expound on this? I'm not trying to have a "gotcha" moment here by any means.

To me, a more balanced team should mean his usage rate should go down, not up. And his percentages should go up as well.

I'm talking more about perception. Those numbers as you noted are in line with his historical rates.

They seem better though because G's improvement and Lydon and Richardson reduce what we need from Cooney, so what he's doing seems better.

 

[dasher]

OK here you go. Cooney is at best the 4th best player on our team. He is not leading us anywhere. If we depend on him to win games it will be a very long season.

You know what gets lost...his defense. The fan base that just loved devo a guy that played no defense attacks TC, who plays hard defense every game.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It's not that he isn't as efficient as some like, it's that he's an inefficient player, period.

There are plenty of examples of inefficient players still adding considerable value to teams, but if you think he's efficient, we can agree to disagree.

No metric is showing that to be the case. None.

I didn't say he's efficient. Not sure why you said I did. People gotta chill. All I said was he made plays. I'm not expecting him to be Kyle Korver. He can be syracuses jon scheyer. Some of this fanbase needs to learn how to enjoy wins and not spend every waking moment being miserable about wins.

 

[pearl31]

It's not that he isn't as efficient as some like, it's that he's an inefficient player, period.

There are plenty of examples of inefficient players still adding considerable value to teams, but if you think he's efficient, we can agree to disagree.

No metric is showing that to be the case. None.

what if (gasp!) advanced metric analytical simulated predictor calculations don't tell the whole story?!

 

[RF2044]

Meh. Stats. Generally, their for losers. Eye test indicates he's playing better. Not sure how this is a debate. If you don't like Cooney's style of play that's fine...but to look at stats...see their equal and automatically assume he's not playing better?!?!

Not all plays are equal. Gmac had crappy shooting stats, but name a player you'd rather shoot a three with game on the line.

Not saying Cooney is Gmac, but his body of work, floor okay etc. is improved.

Agreed--which is the point I was making originally. It doesn't take much basketball acumen to see that he's getting into the lane for mid range shots, that he's taking it to the rim more effectively than ever before, that he's providing very solid secondary ball handling contributions, or that he's creating more for his teammates off of the bounce better than he ever has before.

The Pearl probably had more turnovers than Jason Hart did, too--that doesn't make Hart the better point guard.

The eye test shows that Cooney is playing a much more effective, well rounded game. Period. Even if his ceiling is to be a 35% shooter from three, there would still be posters getting worked up over him not shooting 40%.

 

[MikeSU02]

what if (gasp!) advanced metric analytical simulated predictor calculations don't tell the whole story?!

Because traditional and advance stats say the same thing about him.