Cooney was terrific in Atlantis

[CIL]

How many of those Cooney misses were him getting the ball with about 2 seconds left on the shot clock? I can recall 5 over the last two games. All misses are not created equally.

 

[Dave85]

What?

Prior to this game, he was at 37.1 FG% for the year, his career FG% is 37.o%.

Prior to this game he was at 32.4% 3FG% for the year, his career 3FG% is 32.8%.

Rebounds and assists are at career highs at around 3 each, but so are his TOs, also at 3 a game.

His advanced stats are down almost across the board for the year, but I'm not even going to venture into those if people already think his "critics" need to eat crow.

And let's look at his game today, since the stats above are for all games up to today:

FG: 5/16 (most attempts on team)
3FG: 2/8
FT: 3/5
Rebounds: 2
Assists: 5
Steals: 3
Turnovers: 5

He is exactly who he has been, with a higher usage rate.

I seem to remember he had a slow start last year also. The last two games he's been terrific.

 

[MikeSU02]

Meh. Stats. Generally, theiy're for losers. Eye test indicates he's playing better. Not sure how this is a debate.

If you don't like Cooney's style of play that's fine...but to look at stats...see their equal and automatically assume he's not playing better?!?!

Not all plays are equal. Gmac had crappy shooting stats, but name a player you'd rather shoot a three with game on the line. Not saying Cooney is Gmac, but his body of work, floor okay etc. is improved.

Ok.

You say stats are for losers.

Then say Cooney's evaluation can't be debatable.

Solid old-timey thinking.

Btw, GMac was clutch and the clutch stats show that he was.

Cooney's improvement you speak of is not showing up in any stat. Even the ones that were tailor-made for him. Even the ones that evaluate defense.

His usage rate is higher. That's it.

 

[realorange]

We've seen all these posts before. Interchangeable names--Cooney, Triche, Rautins-----. The one key factor each of these players have is they give everything they have, every game. Skills for each of them have increased as their careers have gone on. None of them were All Stars, but the All Stars stood on their shoulders.
I feel sorry for people who cannot appreciate the intangibles that Cooney or others like him bring to a game. Without any one of them, their teams would be far less than they were or are in the case of TC.

 

[skurey]

Ok we need to clear some things up.

If your eye test says one thing and stats say another then your eye test sucks and we should ignore your opinion. End of story.

 

[RF2044]

Ok we need to clear some things up.

If your eye test says one thing and stats say another then your eye test sucks and we should ignore your opinion. End of story.

The eye test confirms beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are consistently one of the least insightful posters on this basketball forum. End of story.

Unsubscribe.

 

[Dave85]

We're already as a team exponentially better than most prognosticators [and most fans] expected -- and Cooney is a big part of that.

I did not expect them to even have a chance to make the NCAA tournament. I thought this team was going to have the worse record in JB's career before the season started. Now the team is 8-0. I have no idea how well this team is going to do on the upside. But after the last two games I'm pretty confident they are going to make the NCAA tournament. Anything just making the tournament will be gravy as far as I'm concerned.

 

[orangefan13]

You could sub sophmore Dion waiters on this team for Trevor Cooney right now and it probably would be little to no better, honestly.

Then you could say thats because gbinije, Lydon, Roberson, and Malachi are better but that couldn't be further from the truth.

People put to much emphasis on points especially for guards who don't pick up assists and backline players that don't pick up rebounds. Now if the team needs scoring shoot away, its part of hoping they will get better in season.

 

[Dave85]

The eye test confirms beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are consistently one of the least insightful posters on this basketball forum. End of story.

Unsubscribe.

Brutal but funny.

 

[dasher]

Ok we need to clear some things up.

If your eye test says one thing and stats say another then your eye test sucks and we should ignore your opinion. End of story.

We have a Hall of Fame coach who leaves him out there for 38 minutes a game. I wonder why? He must not know what some of the folks on this board know about basketball.

 

[two3zone]

You could sub sophmore Dion waiters on this team for Trevor Cooney right now and it probably would be little to no better, honestly.

That's false, Dion was excellent his second year. Not one person on this team or that team that I'd want to have the ball in their hands more if I needed points.

 

[Czar]

You could sub sophmore Dion waiters on this team for Trevor Cooney right now and it probably would be little to no better, honestly.

Then you could say thats because gbinije, Lydon, Roberson, and Malachi are better but that couldn't be further from the truth.

People put to much emphasis on points especially for guards who don't pick up assists and backline players that don't pick up rebounds. Now if the team needs scoring shoot away, its part of hoping they will get better in season.

Um, what? Sophomore Waiters for Cooney is a trade I'd take all day. Can you imagine how freaking open Richardson, Gbinijie, and Lyndon would be on his drives?

 

[Jake]

That's false, Dion was excellent his second year. Not one person on this team or that team that I'd want to have the ball in their hands more if I needed points.

How could that be? Dion averaged 12ppg that year. Cooney averages 15ppg this year. Clearly the statistics indicate Trevor is a better scorer than Dion.

Unless of course, statistics don't tell the whole story.

 

[creatorsgam]

Unless of course, statistics don't tell the whole story.

 

[MikeSU02]

How could that be? Dion averaged 12ppg that year. Cooney averages 15ppg this year. Clearly the statistics indicate Trevor is a better scorer than Dion.

Unless of course, statistics don't tell the whole story.

Lol. Do the kids like it when you give them Werther's when they visit?

Dion's 12.6ppg in 24mpg on 47.6 FG%

Stats show Dion to be a much better player.

But "eye" test.

 

[creatorsgam]

But "eye" test.

While I am at it...

And Henry Clay was beast, dude.

 

[Jake]

Where did I say Cooney was a better player? I would never argue that point. Merely pointing out that statistics can be misleading.

So your supporting my argument that "despite Trevor averaging more points, Dion was a better scorer". I agree.

Which supports my point that stats lie.

Which supports my overall point that Trevor is playing better this year, even though the stats may say it's about the same as always.

I am nothing but consistent here.

Your argument apparently is that stats don't matter when comparing Dion to Trevor, but stats completely must be taken 100% at face value when comparing Trevor to Trevor.

 

[NKR1978]

Lol. Do the kids like it when you give them Werther's when they visit?

Dion's 12.6ppg in 24mpg on 47.6 FG%

Stats show Dion to be a much better player.

But "eye" test.

What test is necessary to determine what compels people to incessantly criticize a kid for four years because he doesn't perform at basketball as efficiently as you'd like. And to continue to do when he gives 100% every game, has never been in trouble and appears to have no academic issues. Are there any advanced statistical models to quantify the anti Trevor Cooney obsession that many have here?

 

[MikeSU02]

Where did I say Cooney was a better player? I would never argue that point. Merely pointing out that statistics can be misleading.

So your supporting my argument that "despite Trevor averaging more points, Dion was a better scorer". I agree.

Which supports my point that stats lie.

Which supports my overall point that Trevor is playing better this year, even though the stats may say it's about the same as always.

I am nothing but consistent here.

Your argument apparently is that stats don't matter when comparing Dion to Trevor, but stats completely must be taken 100% at face value when comparing Trevor to Trevor.

That's not my argument, but you know that already.

We can agree to disagree.

You say that Trevor is playing better this year. I say that his numbers show that his usage rate is higher and that's it.

 

[dasher]

There is a level of sickness to the Cooney bashing. Even when we win a really nice tournament, out it comes. He has been a solid player that our Hall of fame coach has played 38 minutes a game. There is a reason for that. But more than that. He has been a credit to our school and our team over that time. He has never embarrassed the school as some of our board's favorite players have most certainly done. The bashing just amazes me.

 

[RF2044]

That's not my argument, but you know that already.

We can agree to disagree.

You say that Trevor is playing better this year. I say that his numbers show that his usage rate is higher and that's it.

Pointless to split hairs about how you personally define "better," but I don't think that it can be argued with any legitimate intellectual honesty that Cooney isn't demonstrating a more well rounded game this year, and that him doing so is better for the team, and enabling Trevor to contribute in ways [such as taking the ball to the basket and scoring] that he wasn't consistently able to before. And that this improved versatility has paid big dividends to some of the impressive wins we've earned so far.

 

[Jake]

I don't know what your argument is, because when I flatly refute your logic as inconsistent and arbitrary, suddenly you change it. I know two things.

1) I say Trevor is playing better despite measurables that indicate otherwise, because often a floor game can't be measured statistically because there are many factors that are not captured statistically.

2) Your argument is that he's still the same old trevor, the numbers say so, we're just getting more of the same old trevor.

It's like an artist trying to explain a painting to an accountant.

 

[Jake]

There is a level of sickness to the Cooney bashing. Even when we win a really nice tournament, out it comes. He has been a solid player that our Hall of fame coach has played 38 minutes a game. There is a reason for that. But more than that. He has been a credit to our school and our team over that time. He has never embarrassed the school as some of our board's favorite players have most certainly done. The bashing just amazes me.

It's hilarious. No one is arguing that he's Jerry West. It's merely a point that he's playing well, and better than last year.

But you get the "oh my god. He stinks just like last year you silly apologist".

It's just mind boggling. He made the freaking all-tourney team.

Be happy for him and his teammates.

 

[rrlbees]

It's hilarious. No one is arguing that he's Jerry West. It's merely a point that he's playing well, and better than last year. But you get the "oh my god. He stinks just like last year you silly apologist". It's just mind boggling. He made the freaking all-tourney team. Be happy for him and his teammates.

Stats also don't measure things like leadership, hustle, that double back steal attempt just before the half which caused the bad pass that G stole and got 3 foul shots, etc.

 

[skurey]

The eye test confirms beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are consistently one of the least insightful posters on this basketball forum. End of story.

Unsubscribe.

Yes maybe next time Cooney has a bad game I can make a thread telling you to eat crow, because that's what insightful posters do.