Cooney

[Jamesvillecuse]

relax man we have played 2 exhibition games don't see the point in getting so worked up. The above post was just busting your balls

 

[CaptainJ]

I have an interesting question to ask all of the self proclaimed talent scouts on both sides here. At what point will we have a definitive answer? What's the over/under at least?

 

[CraigForth]

Cooney's potato's have been shakey this year through the two exhibition games. No doubt about it.

But show me anyone who can say, with a straight face, that every time he throws one up you don't think that suckers going in and I will show you a liar. It's exactly why some people have become exasperated with him; the expectation is that the ball is going in. If you think opposing coach's b-holes aren't puckering just a bit every time he launches one, then you're crazy. Further, if you think that doesn't have an impact on how they defend the team in general then you're beyond crazy.

 

[djcon57]

Sounds to me like inferred vs. implied confusion. I don't recall a single post claiming that the #1 goal was what you write above.

But I have seen a lot of knowledgeable posters--including both coaches and former players--who have debunked the notion that overplaying Cooney wasn't a concerted focal point of opposing defenses. Suggesting otherwise is completely false. So... if people want to fall back on subjectively interpreting "overplay" to mean that it was the other team's #1 goal instead of what was actually being implied, then I can understand why many seem to be confused. But this highlights for me that the posters who don't have a grasp of foundational defensive concepts or don't recognize what the other team is doing defensively away from the ball really ought to stop arguing about X's and O's.

I did see that...don't have time to find the posts, but it won't matter if I did. The groupspeak has spoken.

That was the point to my agreeing to your post. The extremes will never allow this to be a debate...and they have shown themselves again.

 

[djcon57]

But I have seen a lot of knowledgeable posters--including both coaches and former players--who have debunked the notion that overplaying Cooney wasn't a concerted focal point of opposing defenses. Suggesting otherwise is completely false. So... if people want to fall back on subjectively interpreting "overplay" to mean that it was the other team's #1 goal instead of what was actually being implied, then I can understand why many seem to be confused. But this highlights for me that the posters who don't have a grasp of foundational defensive concepts or don't recognize what the other team is doing defensively away from the ball really ought to stop arguing about X's and O's..

Also...TBCuse11 said he played D1 ball and his opinion was shouted down and was called a liar. I have no idea if he's lying, but it's not really the point...

To me, seems like if you shared a Pabst or whatever in some Manley parking lot you immediately become Dr. Jack Ramsey.

JMO, of course.

 

[RF2044]

I did see that...don't have time to find the posts, but it won't matter if I did. The groupspeak has spoken.

That was the point to my agreeing to your post. The extremes will never allow this to be a debate...and they have shown themselves again.

The group think card? Really?

People are entitled to opinions, but not their own set of facts, nor hair-splitting definitions of what something means to them that runs counter to standard definitions. And when people express an opinion that's wrong on a message board--which has happened frequently with the Cooney / opposing defense issue--then they need to expect other people also posting on an internet forum to express an alternate viewpoint--especially those who are knowledgeable about the subject matter being discussed.

Unfortunately, this IS a board of extremes. The ratonal people are the ones who are willing to change their minds in the face of new evidence. The irrational people are those who intractably never change their minds, even when presented with evidence / data that runs counter to their argument. Actually--you might unintentionally be right--your post is exhibit A of the tendency that you're describing.

 

[RF2044]

Also...TBCuse11 said he played D1 ball and his opinion was shouted down and was called a liar. I have no idea if he's lying, but it's not really the point...

To me, seems like if you shared a Pabst or whatever in some Manley parking lot you immediately become Dr. Jack Ramsey.

JMO, of course.

Oy vey...

What's with the theatrics? "Shouted down," "called a liar..." Really? Where? Certainly not in this thread? He has a tendency to express some pretty strong viewpoints on subjects, that often galvanize equally strong rebuttals from posters who disagree with him. I've never seen him called a liar. I HAVE seen posters disagree with the way he presents his opinions as facts.

I will be shocked--absolutely shocked--if TBCuse11 was really a D1 basketball player. I like him as a poster, and he seems like a passionate good guy, but I cannot envision that being the case given some of the opinions he expresses on this board. And if I'm wrong, I'll happily stand corrected but be even more shocked.

And for the record, it isn't difficult to pick out the people on this board [and I certainly do NOT include myself in this list] of posters who are extremely knowledgeable about basketball. Many of their backgrounds are well known--some are coaches, some were players at various levels, some have program connections that occasionally provides "insider" insight. It doesn't take paying much attention to separate the wheat from the chaff, and has ZERO to do with these people being Manley parking lot tailgait buddies.

 

[CaptainJ]

Instead of Hammer time or Miller time, I think this will soon reach CTO time

 

[djcon57]

Oy vey...

Why do you aways resort to theatrics? "Shouted down," "called a liar..." Really? Where? Certainly not in this thread? He has a tendency to express some pretty strong viewpoints on subjects, that often galvanize equally strong rebuttals from posters who disagree with him. I've never seen him called a liar. I HAVE seen posters disagree with the way he presents his opinions as facts.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/oh-trevor.70298/

Should I bring up the thread where Syracuse fans are told to "Go root for Duke" because of their opinion on Cooney as well?

Of course, there's only one extreme here...we all know that.

 

[RF2044]

http://syracusefan.com/threads/oh-trevor.70298/

Should I bring up the thread where Syracuse fans are told to "Go root for Duke" because of their opinion on Cooney as well?

Of course, there's only one extreme here...we all know that.

What was I supposed to be looking for in that 5-page thread exactly? Because I sure didn't see anybody calling TBCuse a liar like you claimed above. What I did see were some people disagreeing with some of his positions [like Cooney isn't athletic], but I saw people agreeing with him on certain topics, too. Seemed like a typical thread after a loss, with lots of venting and quite a few disagreements on the root cause of the problems. Many posts in the middle of the fairway, others on the periphery with more heated debates.

One more thing: looking at one thread in a vaccum doesn't convey how some posters beat dead horses on certain topics, which tends to draw a more pointed response than an individual post alone sans context would seem to warrant.

Dissenting viewpoints are fine, but the oppressed masses melodrama isn't applicable here.

 

[rrlbees]

I did see that...don't have time to find the posts, but it won't matter if I did. The groupspeak has spoken. That was the point to my agreeing to your post. The extremes will never allow this to be a debate...and they have shown themselves again.

One extreme as you call it is fact because coaches have said as much and I'm not talking about coaches here. But you can have your opinion. Mine is there has only been one extend side. That that thinks he is garbage and/or a D2 player. The opposite of that would be AA. That hasn't been said nor inferred.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

What was I supposed to be looking for in that 5-page thread exactly? Because I sure didn't see anybody calling TBCuse a liar like you claimed above. What I did see were some people disagreeing with some of his positions [like Cooney isn't athletic], but I saw people agreeing with him on certain topics, too. Seemed like a typical thread after a loss, with lots of venting and quite a few disagreements on the root cause of the problems. Many posts in the middle of the fairway, others on the periphery with more heated debates.

One more thing: looking at one thread in a vaccum doesn't convey how some posters beat dead horses on certain topics, which tends to draw a more chippy response than an individual post alone sans context would seem to warrant.

Dissenting viewpoints are fine, but the oppressed masses melodrama I can do without.

everyone is entitled to their opinion. Its like witnesses at a crime of 10 people there could be 10 different views of what happened. Some will fight tooth and nail to make there point the right point sometimes it is just best to say we agree to disagree.

 

[djcon57]

One extreme as you call it is fact because coaches have said as much and I'm not talking about coaches here. But you can have your opinion. Mine is there has only been one extend side. That that thinks he is garbage and/or a D2 player. The opposite of that would be AA. That hasn't been said nor inferred.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/people-are-selling-cooney-low.73148/#post-1004284

Not AA. Just the #1 SG in the nation.

 

[rrlbees]

http://syracusefan.com/threads/oh-trevor.70298/ Should I bring up the thread where Syracuse fans are told to "Go root for Duke" because of their opinion on Cooney as well? Of course, there's only one extreme here...we all know that.

If "fans" are going to root against a player, the maybe they should go root for another team. And yes you can tell when a poster or posters is rooting against a player. They gleefully post their crap when the player does poorly and are mum when they play well. Or they chalk it up to a lucky night. And there's more said negative posts about a player than posts about the team.

 

[moqui]

inconsistency is part of the package for three point threats . . . all of them. Nobody goes out there and goes a machine-like 3 for 8 or 4 for 9 every single game, it's going to be more like a 5 for 9 followed by a 2 for 7 followed by a 1 for 4. Inconsistent, yes, but that is what 40% shooting is made of, and the threat of that 5 for 9 lurking on any given night is what forces opposing coaches to assign one of the their two best defenders on him every time out, even if he's missed his last 10 in a row.

 

[RF2044]

http://syracusefan.com/threads/people-are-selling-cooney-low.73148/#post-1004284

Not AA. Just the #1 SG in the nation.

LOL--that actually is pretty funny! But your interpretation isn't presented exactly the way that the poster framed it ["...arguably the #1 SG over the first half of the season]. Clearly hyperbole, but Cooney DID have a fantastic start to last year.

 

[Millhouse]

If "fans" are going to root against a player, the maybe they should go root for another team. And yes you can tell when a poster or posters is rooting against a player. They gleefully post their crap when the player does poorly and are mum when they play well. Or they chalk it up to a lucky night. And there's more said negative posts about a player than posts about the team.

i want patterson to get more minutes and cooney to get less. that isn't rooting against anyone. someone's going to get less minutes.

 

[moqui]

i want patterson to get more minutes and cooney to get less. that isn't rooting against anyone. someone's going to get less minutes.

if patterson gets more minutes than Cooney, then its an NIT year

 

[rrlbees]

http://syracusefan.com/threads/people-are-selling-cooney-low.73148/#post-1004284 Not AA. Just the #1 SG in the nation.

Lol. One person says one time he was arguably the best 2g the first half of the season, and you equate that to all the crap he gets on the other side?

Like JB has said, when teams chased him around and the defender would never leave him to play help defense, it made things a little easier for CJ and Tyler.

 

[AlaskaSU]

If I were an ACC coach during Trevor's slump I would take the opposite approach to focusing on him. I would instruct my shooting guard to let Trevor fire away, especially if he is not set.

 

[RF2044]

If I were an ACC coach during Trevor's slump I would take the opposite approach to focusing on him. I would instruct my shooting guard to let Trevor fire away, especially if he is not set.

The problem with that approach is, that's a great way to help a player break out of their slump.

You ALWAYS find the shooter and never leave him open. Players who aren't shooters--yeah, coax them into taking shots.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

If I were an ACC coach during Trevor's slump I would take the opposite approach to focusing on him. I would instruct my shooting guard to let Trevor fire away, especially if he is not set.

sounds like a coach that would be unemployed to me.

 

[pearl31]

Like JB has said, when teams chased him around and the defender would never leave him to play help defense, it made things a little easier for CJ and Tyler.

It is just bizarre to me that people who claim to have a solid understanding of the game cannot get this part :bang:

 

[AlaskaSU]

if patterson gets more minutes than Cooney, then its an NIT year

Don't throw Buss under the bus. Best case scenario, they both deserve minutes. Buss is not the shooter that Cooney can be but he is a spark plug.

 

[rrlbees]

i want patterson to get more minutes and cooney to get less. that isn't rooting against anyone. someone's going to get less minutes.

That's your opinion and one that isn't rooting against a player like others do and have made obvious. Some since the day he arrived on campus.