Cornell Postgame Thoughts

[billsin01]

I guess I would have to watch it again, but that’s not what I saw.

This stupid man vs. zone argument needs to die. You have to play good defense. The zone may well be a bit outdated and absolutely colgate/cornell could (or would) have torn it up. But you can play various zone defenses that can still give teams -- good teams -- fits.

Conversely -- Colgate absolutely shredded our man defense (as did gonzaga and UVA) and Cornell put up 70 on a pretty subpar shooting night. And, man, they had a lot of open looks early that didn't go down.

We have to play good defense. Don't really care exactly what the system or style is, but it has to be five players playing together as a unit and executing. We're not doing that in our zone or our man.

 

[Fly Rodder]

In games the court is shrinking yet again. That’s not what they are after I promise you

That's the biggest thing that I notice during games. It always looks like our players our completely covered and doubled up while opponents are well-spaced out and usually taking wide open shots or making easy entry passes.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Q and Judah lost their mind that trip. I thought most if not all were legit. With three fouls Judah can't get his fourth grabbing a big down low.

Agree, what was Mintz doing bear hugging that Cornell guy? I think they are having issues on defense, helping, switching - saw JJ in transition also ending up guarding a big man down low who just abused him going to the basket too. He never should have ended up guarding him just like Mintz was in a bad situation trying to guard another player much bigger and taller than him under the basket in that weird foul situation. Are our bigs just slow in transition, lack of defensive communication between our players or are our players switching rather than fighting through screens - leaving bad matchups? It’s a defensive issue regarding our man to man that needs to be addressed. Conversely I wish we set picks, screens creating matchup issues with McLeod on offense to take advantage of his size.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Taylor was +20 in 35 minutes last night. So those 5 minutes he didn't play at the end of the half we were -9. Hopefully we see more of that player we saw last night because I think he might be the key going forward.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Taylor was +20 in 35 minutes last night. So those 5 minutes he didn't play at the end of the half we were -9. Hopefully we see more of that player we saw last night because I think he might be the key going forward.

Like we thought a few games ago, once he starts hitting his threes, he's going to be a problem for defenses. Kid is jacked and moves his body well. Just a little bit undersized for a PF and a little slow for a wing.

 

[Goin' Deep]

JT nearly had a double/double last night. He's a player getting the most out of his "talent".
LOVE Copeland's energy/effort. But PLEASE take the ball out of his hands as he's a turnover machine.

I feel like this is another 500 ball club with Benny not contributing.

 

[two3zone]

JT nearly had a double/double last night. He's a player getting the most out of his "talent".
LOVE Copeland's energy/effort. But PLEASE take the ball out of his hands as he's a turnover machine.

I feel like this is another 500 ball club with Benny not contributing.

Love Copeland’s energy, but he shouldn’t be handling the ball at this point.

 

[Sbucketball]

We were very fortunate Cornell was missing 3s, including open ones. To be fair, Cornell was fortunate Judah had to sit on the bench for most of the second half due to cheap fouls. If Cornell was hitting 3s we could have lost, if Judah didn't have to sit we probably would have broken the game open with 10 minutes left.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

We took a punch at the end of the first half and were able to gather ourselves and regain control. I liked seeing that. We'll rarely have the luxury of having an entire halftime to calm down and adjust, but I'll take it.

 

[Hopkins16]

Our issue is that we have a lot of role players who are good at one or two things and who would not be starting on most top 20 teams. We lack complete players so it is what it is. As someone stated earlier, you look at the UConn - UNC game and those teams are legit and so much better. I'm tired of slamming our guys for their deficiencies - they are mostly 2 and 3 star players. We do the best with what we have - for now. The goal is to get back to national prominence and be able to recruit several 4 and 5 star starters each year who bring a strong skill set to the table. Talent matters and without it we will spend every post game complaining about player deficiencies, low basketball IQ, etc. The very good teams do not have the problem of having to take a bunch of projects and developing them for 2 or more years, or have them max out at a low level because they are who they are. Bottom line is we need to be able to get commitments from multi-skilled high level players so we do not have to ask the role players to do more than they can.

 

[UpstateSM]

The Benny thing seems more like a "when" than an "if."

Sadly.

 

[Sbucketball]

Our issue is that we have a lot of role players who are good at one or two things and who would not be starting on most top 20 teams. We lack complete players so it is what it is. As someone stated earlier, you look at the UConn - UNC game and those teams are legit and so much better. I'm tired of slamming our guys for their deficiencies - they are mostly 2 and 3 star players. We do the best with what we have - for now. The goal is to get back to national prominence and be able to recruit several 4 and 5 star starters each year who bring a strong skill set to the table. Talent matters and without it we will spend every post game complaining about player deficiencies, low basketball IQ, etc. The very good teams do not have the problem of having to take a bunch of projects and developing them for 2 or more years, or have them max out at a low level because they are who they are. Bottom line is we need to be able to get commitments from multi-skilled high level players so we do not have to ask the role players to do more than they can.

Watching top 25 matchups is when it's most clear we just don't have it. We can and will get better as the season progresses, but we just don't have the personnel top to bottom that serious teams have. Red needs to buy an elite center and forward in the off-season.

 

[two3zone]

Watching top 25 matchups is when it's most clear we just don't have it. We can and will get better as the season progresses, but we just don't have the personnel top to bottom that serious teams have. Red needs to buy an elite center and forward in the off-season.

And a guard.

 

[CuseTG2003]

A few thoughts:

• JT continues to impress w/ his all-around game. He's still hesitant to shoot at times, and he shouldn't be. His misses look good.
• Really impressed w/ Bell's effort. I counted three hustle blocks. His shooting speaks for itself.
• Brown does all the little things. Very Dolezaj-esque.
• I think we're dangerous if Chance gets healthy and acclimated quickly.
• Overall, I see a lot of positive signs. We have a solid core to build upon and some promising additions lined up for next year.

 

[Hopkins16]

Watching top 25 matchups is when it's most clear we just don't have it. We can and will get better as the season progresses, but we just don't have the personnel top to bottom that serious teams have. Red needs to buy an elite center and forward in the off-season.

Yep. Carey, Hima and Patterson are not the future or the answer or even decent backups. McLeod should be a backup off the bench. Our issues run deep.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Love Copeland’s energy, but he shouldn’t be handling the ball at this point.

That's a problem though since he can't shoot either. Had some very disappointing moments on defense last night as well. Think the one thing he is consistently good for is rebounds. But he is a liability on settled offense and nobody wants to shoot if its a lineup of Copeland Mintz and JJ. Mintz shooting performance last night is an outlier on the season and not something we should count on regularly just yet. Copeland seems like a guy who only belongs if the plan is a high intensity press and playing fast. Not sure he makes up for his lack of offense on the defensive end. Taylor and Bell are more well rounded players right now.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Like we thought a few games ago, once he starts hitting his threes, he's going to be a problem for defenses. Kid is jacked and moves his body well. Just a little bit undersized for a PF and a little slow for a wing.

We are currently restricted by having to use players out of their natural position. Not to heap on Benny but the depth we thought we had in our front court has been really altered by the lack of depth with our power forward/ center positions. MaliQ is forced to be a center with McLeod unable to effectively play more than half a game coupled with Carey’s injury recovery and lack of development and Hima’s knee issues.

Taylor has become the de facto power forward at 6’6” while the taller 6’7” but much thinner Chris Bell plays small forward. We’re playing JJ, currently a poor shooter at the 2 guard position and our better shooter, Mintz at point guard. What’s best defensively for the team must be meshed with what’s best for our offense. I doubt that last year Red saw this year’s team function best with both Bell and Taylor starting but fortunately those 2 players have improved the most and become much more versatile and invaluable than anticipated. With Benny’s issues their improvement has been a gift for the team but it does affect our depth for sure.

I will probably be ripped for saying this but Judah, a really talented player, isn’t really a lead point guard but a very good ball handler, scorer, combo type guard. He creates offense best for himself not others, it’s his talent. He is very good at seeing openings for himself to drive to the basket. His innate instinct is to lead by dribbling up on fast breaks not pass ahead. He’s most comfortable with the ball in his hands but is showing that he can play off the ball with his improved outside shooting. Tough for teammates hustling up court on possible fast breaks to not be seen as an option to pass to. It ends up slowing up fast break possibilities and inside out offense though.

We’re not a finished product for sure. We’ve had to adjust, be flexible because of unanticipated team depth issues. It’s part of the job. I’m certain Red sees all this and the future is bright - it’s going to be a process to be effective. There are no quick fixes, recruiting appears to be going well, we are seeing progress and development while not ignoring that we also have problems to resolve. Sorry this is so long.

 

[Cheriehoop]

That's a problem though since he can't shoot either. Had some very disappointing moments on defense last night as well. Think the one thing he is consistently good for is rebounds. But he is a liability on settled offense and nobody wants to shoot if its a lineup of Copeland Mintz and JJ. Mintz shooting performance last night is an outlier on the season and not something we should count on regularly just yet. Copeland seems like a guy who only belongs if the plan is a high intensity press and playing fast. Not sure he makes up for his lack of offense on the defensive end. Taylor and Bell are more well rounded players right now.

Was happy he made those 2 pressure free throws towards the end of the game. He was shooting only 60% on his free throws for the season. Great job focusing when needed.

 

[br801]

We are currently restricted by having to use players out of their natural position. Not to heap on Benny but the depth we thought we had in our front court has been really altered by the lack of depth with our power forward/ center positions. MaliQ is forced to be a center with McLeod unable to effectively play more than half a game coupled with Carey’s injury recovery and lack of development and Hima’s knee issues.

Taylor has become the de facto power forward at 6’6” while the taller 6’7” but much thinner Chris Bell plays small forward. We’re playing JJ, currently a poor shooter at the 2 guard position and our better shooter, Mintz at point guard. What’s best defensively for the team must be meshed with what’s best for our offense. I doubt that last year Red saw this year’s team function best with both Bell and Taylor starting but fortunately those 2 players have improved the most and become much more versatile and invaluable than anticipated. With Benny’s issues their improvement has been a gift for the team but it does affect our depth for sure.

I will probably be ripped for saying this but Judah, a really talented player, isn’t really a lead point guard but a very good ball handler, scorer, combo type guard. He creates offense best for himself not others, it’s his talent. He is very good at seeing openings for himself to drive to the basket. His innate instinct is to lead by dribbling up on fast breaks not pass ahead. He’s most comfortable with the ball in his hands but is showing that he can play off the ball with his improved outside shooting. Tough for teammates hustling up court on possible fast breaks to not be seen as an option to pass to. It ends up slowing up fast break possibilities and inside out offense though.

We’re not a finished product for sure. We’ve had to adjust, be flexible because of unanticipated team depth issues. It’s part of the job. I’m certain Red sees all this and the future is bright - it’s going to be a process to be effective. There are no quick fixes, recruiting appears to be going well, we are seeing progress and development while not ignoring that we also have problems to resolve. Sorry this is so long.

Good stuff. Not too long.

 

[OrangePA]

This stupid man vs. zone argument needs to die. You have to play good defense. The zone may well be a bit outdated and absolutely colgate/cornell could (or would) have torn it up. But you can play various zone defenses that can still give teams -- good teams -- fits.

Conversely -- Colgate absolutely shredded our man defense (as did gonzaga and UVA) and Cornell put up 70 on a pretty subpar shooting night. And, man, they had a lot of open looks early that didn't go down.

We have to play good defense. Don't really care exactly what the system or style is, but it has to be five players playing together as a unit and executing. We're not doing that in our zone or our man.

I agree that the argument is silly.

A good man-to-man defense is essentially a match-up zone defense. The principles are the pretty much the same - help out coverage - laying off the weakside.

The man defense Bob Knight ran was very similar to the match-up zone John Chaney ran at Temple.

Defense is effort and intelligence regardless of the system employed.

We just don't seem to have strong defensive players on this team - at least right now.

 

[CardiacCuse]

You make an interesting point about they don’t play like they practice. Can you share what Red is seeing that is different in practice? I’m no expert and I’m definitely not at practice, but what I see in games seems to line up with the skill level of the players. I’m not seeing any surprises other than JJs slump in basically all areas.

I remember in football when the Bills were bad… every year in pre-season camp there were reports about how THIS was the that the offense would shine and they would stink in really games. It turns out they looked good in practice because they were playing against a not so good D.

Completely unrelated… can someone explain to me why we don’t set an actual screen where we actually touch the defender. When I played basketball… nailing a defender on a screen was one of my favorite moments. We fake screens but never actually lay a body on someone. This started with JB and now Red is continuing that approach… what the actual heck is going on here? If any team ever needed help getting easy shots it’s this one. What are we doing?

they are gonna call a foul on SU any chance they get...basically...so no contact is the way

i think generally refs go with the general mode of team...so when UVA is very hands on on D...they adjust and dont call a lo of contact bc there's so much of it

since SU is no contact, generally, theyre going to call it when it happens

 

[FrancoPizza]

In games the court is shrinking yet again. That’s not what they are after I promise you

court size matters

 

[benjams77]

We played zone last year and beat them by 15, this year by 11. Not much difference. It’s how well you play the defense you are playing. We did rebound better in m2m vs zone this year against them. They beat us in points in the paint this year though unlike last year. 3 point defense for man vs zone against Cornell was pretty irrelevant (27.1% last year vs 27.3% this year)

2022

Syracuse basketball box score vs. Cornell

See the numbers from the Orange's game against the Big Red on Saturday afternoon in the JMA Wireless Dome.

www.syracuse.com

2023

Syracuse basketball box score vs. Cornell

See the numbers from the Orange's victory against the Big Red on Tuesday night in the JMA Wireless Dome.

www.syracuse.com

Not exactly the same from year to year for them so thats something.. Also yes percentage of 3s compared but they hit 4 more last year... Either way I see it they are a solid team the last 2 years especially on offense and we guarded well... They put up 105 on Miami last year and are averaging like 90 this year. Also the idea of our Defense great shooting teams is if we give up points, give up 2's instead of 3's , hence the paint points on drives.

I know the board is for venting and complaining but sometimes I just don't think some understand the game and just see it in black and white. Yes they had some open 3's they missed but we never let them get in a rhythm. We ran guys of arc and rushed shooters, so when they were open looks they were not comfortable in there heads... We didn't just give up horse threes all game, they had to work for them.

I don't know how some of you see a "bad" team are we flawed yes and prob just average/ok right now but we haven't lost a game we should't, which we have been doing in the last few non conf season. Its harder to win now, Mich st is 4-4, Michigan is 4-5, Villanova has some tough losses to Penn schools, UT is 6-3 and lost 2 times in Maui as well, Duke lost to Ga Tech. Red is doing just fine with this roster that I said in another post has some major mental weakness issues. Those will be fixed by new players. My guess is Benny leaves, Judah goes pro and Belll may get nudged on unless he keeps responding and this fixes those mental issues.. Bring in those other talented guys next year and roles will be better.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Taylor was +20 in 35 minutes last night. So those 5 minutes he didn't play at the end of the half we were -9. Hopefully we see more of that player we saw last night because I think he might be the key going forward.

top 25 teams have wings that can face guard JT and he has no answer against a superior athlete. they turn him into a zero out there. at least for now they do.

he's cracked the code on cornell's and colgate's of the world, though

 

[Cusefan0307]

top 25 teams have wings that can face guard JT and he has no answer against a superior athlete. they turn him into a zero out there. at least for now they do.

he's cracked the code on cornell's and colgate's of the world, though

And what about the rest of our team?