Death Valley is now Classless Valley | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Death Valley is now Classless Valley

They did it repeatedly.
They booed injury timeouts least 3 times...even booed when we called a timeout on defense. I think they were getting frustrated with their poor offense. I guess we are used to poor offense.
 
Yah, seemed like "Douche Valley" to me at times, but I don't want to insult the many polite fans that attended and showed good sportsmanship.

It's easy to be a good sport when you expect to win, and do.
 
It's easy to be a good sport when you expect to win, and do.
True. And the booing was ugly, no doubt. I'm just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt b/c Tomcat and others keep telling me how nice the Clemson fans are.
 
Let's just call it Dearth Valley from here on out as in a dearth of class...
 
You don't boo injured players on either team, regardless of whether you think the injury is real or not. It's just classless and bush league, period.

They even booed when we had injuries on Offense. Who were we "slowing down" then?
 
I don't condone the booing of injured players. The 2nd and 3rd times that there was booing of a player on the ground were inexcusable. Nobody should have been booing those times and the 3rd one (offensive player) was downright idiotic - although the booing wasn't nearly as loud that time. The first down player booed was not injured. He looked over to the sideline and pointed at the ground then fell with a "cramp" once he presumably got a signal back from the coaches. He walked off on his own power and was back in 2 plays later. That was not an injury - that was a flop as much as UNC/Duke flop in basketball. It came after a long play and many people (including myself) saw the above. I booed that - I did not boo the actual injured players and made a comment to those around me that the other two were actually hurt and the booing shouldn't happen. Clemson fans are overly sensitive to flopping because of LSU in 2012 and Georgia in 2013. I don't think your team was doing it regularly like those two. There is also some irritability over our offensive futility with Stoudt as QB and I think that bubbled over as well. That said - oversensitivity/irritability are not an excuse as much as an explanation.

I apologize on behalf of Clemson for the booing of injured players. That shouldn't happen and I can tell you that the offensive player in particular was applauded as he walked off as any injured player should be. At least where I was there was much more applauding for him than the few idiots that were booing. I hope those mistakes don't keep you from coming back to Clemson - I think that's an exception rather than the rule for Clemson fan behavior, but only your return trips will allow you to judge that. Louisville fans certainly came away with a much better impression and I'm hoping you will on future trips. I'm planning on making my first trip to Syracuse next year and I hope that our matchup takes a better tone than the issues that have happened last year and this year. I don't think either are reflective of the programs or fans.

Good luck the rest of your season.
GO TIGERS!
Ken
 
True. And the booing was ugly, no doubt. I'm just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt b/c Tomcat and others keep telling me how nice the Clemson fans are.
I feel like I'm a nice fan.
 
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I don't condone the booing of injured players. The 2nd and 3rd times that there was booing of a player on the ground were inexcusable. Nobody should have been booing those times and the 3rd one (offensive player) was downright idiotic - although the booing wasn't nearly as loud that time. The first down player booed was not injured. He looked over to the sideline and pointed at the ground then fell with a "cramp" once he presumably got a signal back from the coaches. He walked off on his own power and was back in 2 plays later. That was not an injury - that was a flop as much as UNC/Duke flop in basketball. It came after a long play and many people (including myself) saw the above. I booed that - I did not boo the actual injured players and made a comment to those around me that the other two were actually hurt and the booing shouldn't happen. Clemson fans are overly sensitive to flopping because of LSU in 2012 and Georgia in 2013. I don't think your team was doing it regularly like those two. There is also some irritability over our offensive futility with Stoudt as QB and I think that bubbled over as well. That said - oversensitivity/irritability are not an excuse as much as an explanation.

I apologize on behalf of Clemson for the booing of injured players. That shouldn't happen and I can tell you that the offensive player in particular was applauded as he walked off as any injured player should be. At least where I was there was much more applauding for him than the few idiots that were booing. I hope those mistakes don't keep you from coming back to Clemson - I think that's an exception rather than the rule for Clemson fan behavior, but only your return trips will allow you to judge that. Louisville fans certainly came away with a much better impression and I'm hoping you will on future trips. I'm planning on making my first trip to Syracuse next year and I hope that our matchup takes a better tone than the issues that have happened last year and this year. I don't think either are reflective of the programs or fans.

Good luck the rest of your season.
GO TIGERS!
Ken
Get over yourselves - there was no flop. Players look over to the sidelines to get signals and you should know that. One of our players is having surgery and another left with an air cast on his foot. Hickey, our best lineman went to the locker room. As for John Raymon, the kid had a serious compound fracture last year at GT and has spend a year rehabing.

Have any of you ever played athletics? Have you ever been lying on the ground wondering whether the pain was serious or just cramp?

Who cares about Clemson's alleged history with flops?!! Get over yourselves and understand this - THERE IS NEVER A REASON TO BOO A COLLEGE PLAYER ON EITHER TEAM INJURY OR NOT! Boo the refs, even boo the coaches otherwise, just shut the hell up.
 
This is just a fact of life with modern college football...it's not Clemson related, so don't make it out to be more than it is. People are trying to make an evaluation on an injury from 80 rows up, which they shouldn't be doing, but they are. Hell, Dave Doeren accused FSU of faking injuries, even though two of the three players didn't return to the game.

Sometimes players flop to slow down these offenses. Sometime the injuries are legit. In my opinion, you can't design an offense based on running 100 plays and exhausting the defense, and then question when defenders get cramped up. After all, that's what you're basically trying to accomplish. You can't say "We're going to run at a breakneck pace to debilitate you, but you need to stay on the field in your debilitated state so we have the advantage."

The only thing I would say is that coaches of these offenses should tell the fans:

"Listen, we know that players fake injuries to slow us down. However, you need to leave that between the coaching staff and the refs and the league office. You are not close enough to know the circumstances of the injury, and booing a player that may be legitimately injured is not acceptable in any case, and so don't do it."
 
If I had serious enough pain and was that worried it might be an aggravation of a previous injury I wouldn't be looking over to the sideline asking if I should go down or not. You may not believe us, but that is what happened. I do agree that players shouldn't be individually booed - I don't have a problem with booing the coaches. The booing was for a player flopping after asking the sideline if he should or not. That is booing the strategy of flopping, not the player themselves. If I was booing the player I would be able to tell you which player it was that made me upset. I can't - that's because on that one play (the only time I personally booed) I was booing the strategy of flopping that appeared to be endorsed by the sideline. Granted I don't speak for everyone - and enough people made it personal that I felt bad about the response.

As for the "alleged" prior acts, watch this Youtube video - - this is one of the Georgia instances that I was talking about. Yours wasn't quite that obvious, but had a lot of similarities (hence the frustration of the Clemson fans). LSU did it something like 10 times against us the previous year. By the way - LSU and Georgia fans never complained about the booing in those games because they acknowledged that they were doing it. I understand that you don't believe that you did it at all, but at least half the stadium saw it differently. You have plenty of grounds for complaint on instances 2 and even more so on 3, but I'm not defending those.

I could agree with Lou_C's comments except for when we can see instances like the video above. As far as the comment about "breakneck pace," your comments are the reason that the NCAA instituted the substitution rule where defenses have the opportunity to substitute if the offense substitutes. That is fair.

I think the easy solution is that any player that comes out for an injury is out for a set amount of time or a set number of plays (greater than 1 - maybe 3-5). That would allow time for proper medical evaluation and address the "free time out" issue. If a team really wants a player back in more quickly despite an injury, then they can use a time out.

As I said before, I hope we can put this and last years incident behind us soon. I'm ok if it comes down to we think it was a flop and you don't - happens in basketball all the time. It's not going to be fun playing you guys every year if the fan bases resent each other and there is a lot of that right now. That is the part that upsets me the most. We take pride in being good hosts and we didn't meet that standard this time. You can say "get over yourselves" as much as you want, but I like the fact that we take pride in that. There are plenty of fans from other schools that view Clemson as one of their favorite road trips (minus the traffic at times). Louisville certainly felt that way. Auburn and Texas A&M too. Most FSU fans like the trip even though it is a huge rivalry. The booing apparently made it not that way for you all - that's a problem in itself. Hopefully your next trip will be better.

GO TIGERS!
Ken

Get over yourselves - there was no flop. Players look over to the sidelines to get signals and you should know that. One of our players is having surgery and another left with an air cast on his foot. Hickey, our best lineman went to the locker room. As for John Raymon, the kid had a serious compound fracture last year at GT and has spend a year rehabing.

Have any of you ever played athletics? Have you ever been lying on the ground wondering whether the pain was serious or just cramp?

Who cares about Clemson's alleged history with flops?!! Get over yourselves and understand this - THERE IS NEVER A REASON TO BOO A COLLEGE PLAYER ON EITHER TEAM INJURY OR NOT! Boo the refs, even boo the coaches otherwise, just shut the hell up.
 
If I had serious enough pain and was that worried it might be an aggravation of a previous injury I wouldn't be looking over to the sideline asking if I should go down or not. You may not believe us, but that is what happened. I do agree that players shouldn't be individually booed - I don't have a problem with booing the coaches. The booing was for a player flopping after asking the sideline if he should or not. That is booing the strategy of flopping, not the player themselves. If I was booing the player I would be able to tell you which player it was that made me upset. I can't - that's because on that one play (the only time I personally booed) I was booing the strategy of flopping that appeared to be endorsed by the sideline. Granted I don't speak for everyone - and enough people made it personal that I felt bad about the response.

As for the "alleged" prior acts, watch this Youtube video - - this is one of the Georgia instances that I was talking about. Yours wasn't quite that obvious, but had a lot of similarities (hence the frustration of the Clemson fans). LSU did it something like 10 times against us the previous year. By the way - LSU and Georgia fans never complained about the booing in those games because they acknowledged that they were doing it. I understand that you don't believe that you did it at all, but at least half the stadium saw it differently. You have plenty of grounds for complaint on instances 2 and even more so on 3, but I'm not defending those.

I could agree with Lou_C's comments except for when we can see instances like the video above. As far as the comment about "breakneck pace," your comments are the reason that the NCAA instituted the substitution rule where defenses have the opportunity to substitute if the offense substitutes. That is fair.

I think the easy solution is that any player that comes out for an injury is out for a set amount of time or a set number of plays (greater than 1 - maybe 3-5). That would allow time for proper medical evaluation and address the "free time out" issue. If a team really wants a player back in more quickly despite an injury, then they can use a time out.

As I said before, I hope we can put this and last years incident behind us soon. I'm ok if it comes down to we think it was a flop and you don't - happens in basketball all the time. It's not going to be fun playing you guys every year if the fan bases resent each other and there is a lot of that right now. That is the part that upsets me the most. We take pride in being good hosts and we didn't meet that standard this time. You can say "get over yourselves" as much as you want, but I like the fact that we take pride in that. There are plenty of fans from other schools that view Clemson as one of their favorite road trips (minus the traffic at times). Louisville certainly felt that way. Auburn and Texas A&M too. Most FSU fans like the trip even though it is a huge rivalry. The booing apparently made it not that way for you all - that's a problem in itself. Hopefully your next trip will be better.

GO TIGERS!
Ken
I was there you damn fool and I saw it with my own eyes. Clemson fans that booed are not only classless they are ignorant as well. I guess the two go together. Football injuries are not BB flops.

When your players go down in the dome, our folks will be silent and then give them an applause when they leave the field. We will educate you on how to behave.
 
Clemson fans are gracious before the game but if is close they get ugly. They stated booing our injured guys when the game stayed close. Now we know their true colors. Very disappointing.

Don't be fooled. Deep down, they are really purple.
 

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