Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[TexanMark]

Having the old Ho Jo site and the brooklawn site redeveloped are good things for the area. Also, I guess they are somewhat gateways to Syracuse and help improve the image.

A modern factory along Thompson Road employing 1-2000 would be nice. I remember the area around Carrier used to have quite a few joints serving the workers.

 

[Bill Orange]

A modern factory along Thompson Road employing 1-2000 would be nice. I remember the area around Carrier used to have quite a few joints serving the workers.

Doug's Place, The Workin' Man's Tavern was especially great, as were the t-shirts for those of a certain age...

 

[xc84]

Doug's Place, The Workin' Man's Tavern was especially great, as were the t-shirts for those of a certain age...

They had good bologna sandwiches (not joking).

 

[Newhouser]

Mark, I know the owner of that site. He suppose to build a new hotel there but is having some easement problems (entrance/exit) with town coming off the circle.

Another hotel? Why? Who is doing the studies that provides data for all these hotels?

 

[xc84]

Another hotel? Why? Who is doing the studies that provides data for all these hotels?

The people who decide to put up the money and build them.

 

[maxxyz]

Another hotel? Why? Who is doing the studies that provides data for all these hotels?

Syracuse has been short on hotel space for decades, which has lead to national organizations not selecting the area for their events. It’s still a big problem. We don’t even make the short list for consideration because we have less availability than Albany, Rochester and Buffalo.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Syracuse has been short on hotel space for decades, which has lead to national organizations not selecting the area for their events. It’s still a big problem. We don’t even make the short list for consideration because we have less availability than Albany, Rochester and Buffalo.

And the convention center is too small.

A modern factory along Thompson Road employing 1-2000 would be nice. I remember the area around Carrier used to have quite a few joints serving the workers.

I work over near Carrier Circle and, while I get it, I'm disappointed that the new factory is going up on an "unspoiled" former golf course while there is plenty industrial property on Thompson Road that can be redeveloped and sits vacant. Unfortunately, Syracuse and the greater metro area have an issue with redeveloping abandoned and otherwise vacant former industrial areas and not enough growth to justify spending money on a clean-up/liability waiver. It's much much much cheaper to develop new property than old.

 

[TexanMark]

Doug's Place, The Workin' Man's Tavern was especially great, as were the t-shirts for those of a certain age...

Yup remembered those NSFW t-shirts. They even had an ad in National Lampoon to buy them.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The people who decide to put up the money and build them.

Well, so long as they get tax exemptions, they do.

 

[shandeezy7]

And the convention center is too small.

I work over near Carrier Circle and, while I get it, I'm disappointed that the new factory is going up on an "unspoiled" former golf course while there is plenty industrial property on Thompson Road that can be redeveloped and sits vacant. Unfortunately, Syracuse and the greater metro area have an issue with redeveloping abandoned and otherwise vacant former industrial areas and not enough growth to justify spending money on a clean-up/liability waiver. It's much much much cheaper to develop new property than old.

Yeah many of those old industrial facilities are brownfield sites. Unfortunately, they don't get re-purposed unless there is an influx of public money to clean them up. I'm with you though, as I'd rather see those sites cleaned up and re-used than sit there decaying while new properties are built elsewhere.

 

[Bill Orange]

Yup remembered those NSFW t-shirts. They even had an ad in National Lampoon to buy them.

I still have mine...

 

[xc84]

Well, so long as they get tax exemptions, they do.

Yes, the investment must make sense before they invest. The study determines whether or not they do... and sometimes they don't unless there are incentives like tax breaks.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Yeah many of those old industrial facilities are brownfield sites. Unfortunately, they don't get re-purposed unless there is an influx of public money to clean them up. I'm with you though, as I'd rather see those sites cleaned up and re-used than sit there decaying while new properties are built elsewhere.

What I don't understand is why tax breaks aren't linked to redeveloping, re-purposing rather than new construction. New construction requires additional infrastructure costs and maintenance for government entities involving sewer, water, roads etc. Why give incentives for new sites when empty sites exist? If empty brownfield sites exist most who had also gotten tax breaks during their existence, why isn't cleanup mandated as a part of the original enforceable tax agreement? It's crazy how taxpayer money is thrown away chasing employers who will leave or in this case never even come with no accountability nor responsibility to repay the costs they have stuck us with.

 

[TexanMark]

Aspen Dental news...not good for Syracuse

 

[shandeezy7]

Aspen Dental news...not good for Syracuse

It sounds like one of those deals where they say they are committed to maintaining their headquarters and a large presence here, but in 3-4 years they are completely gone. Regardless, even if they keep their headquarters and majority of their operations here, it is a disappointment that the downtown relocation didn't happen. It would have been a boon to downtown and the area as a whole, as all these jobs that they are going to hire for in Chicago would have been here.

 

[FasterCuse]

Aspen Dental news...not good for Syracuse

I agree. I could eventually see them moving everything out to Chicago. Unfortunately, I think one issue Syracuse is going to run into is lack of qualified talent in the area to attract large organizations. I know we have a lot of universities, but most students leave town after graduating.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I agree. I could eventually see them moving everything out to Chicago. Unfortunately, I think one issue Syracuse is going to run into is lack of qualified talent in the area to attract large organizations. I know we have a lot of universities, but most students leave town after graduating.

Circular logic working - kids leave thinking there are few jobs, companies leave, don’t relocate because there aren’t enough young qualified people to fill the jobs and the circle just keeps revolving. Who is going to spearhead the effort to get colleges, universities, local representatives and employers etc together to get a committed effort to resolve it?

 

[shandeezy7]

I agree. I could eventually see them moving everything out to Chicago. Unfortunately, I think one issue Syracuse is going to run into is lack of qualified talent in the area to attract large organizations. I know we have a lot of universities, but most students leave town after graduating.

I don't know, I think there is plenty of qualified talent in the area, at least for this type of work. The problem CNY will run into pertains to specialized high-tech labor, of which the talent pool in the area is quite small. SU has 30,000 alumni living in CNY. Le Moyne has another 15,000. That's just two schools. And most of the reason those that go to school here and leave has to do with the availability of jobs. More jobs available = a more educated workforce sticking around.

 

[IthacaMatt]

What I don't understand is why tax breaks aren't linked to redeveloping, re-purposing rather than new construction. New construction requires additional infrastructure costs and maintenance for government entities involving sewer, water, roads etc. Why give incentives for new sites when empty sites exist? If empty brownfield sites exist most who had also gotten tax breaks during their existence, why isn't cleanup mandated as a part of the original enforceable tax agreement? It's crazy how taxpayer money is thrown away chasing employers who will leave or in this case never even come with no accountability nor responsibility to repay the costs they have stuck us with.

A big part of the problem, in my humble opinion, is that government attorneys, for the most part, are made up of former District Attorneys or staff attorneys who have served in some administrative capacity. Government work is a pay cut for most private practice or corporate attorneys who are knowledgeable about real estate development, tax law or corporate transactions. They have no real expertise in negotiating the kinds of agreements they are asked to negotiate.

That's why, for instance, the whole "theme park" element of Destiny never got developed as part of their (second) thirty year tax break. The City's attorneys were not Bright enough to know what the minimum performance requirement was for Pyramid to be entitled to the tax benefits. Terrible negotiation on their part. I've seen it too many times.

 

[SU68]

At least they demolished that hideous old HoJo at Carrier Circle. Any construction there, yet?

You could get some good meals and ice cream at that HoJo's back in the '60s.

 

[All4SU]

I’m going to put this here and let the mods decide if it should be moved;

I have started a discussion Group of openminded people in the Syracuse area. We plan to meet live once each month - on a Sunday night, Time TBD - to current issues, political and otherwise, in a format, without personal attack or insult. The purpose of the group is to actually discuss , and learn how other people view things, not to change other people’s minds. As such I am interested in recruiting people with diverse sets of opinions and backgrounds. The group will probably grow to 9-12 people. (Currently at 6 or 7.) if this soundsinteresting to you, please PM me. Thanks.

 

[OttoMets]

A big part of the problem, in my humble opinion, is that government attorneys, for the most part, are made up of former District Attorneys or staff attorneys who have served in some administrative capacity. Government work is a pay cut for most private practice or corporate attorneys who are knowledgeable about real estate development, tax law or corporate transactions. They have no real expertise in negotiating the kinds of agreements they are asked to negotiate.

That's why, for instance, the whole "theme park" element of Destiny never got developed as part of their (second) thirty year tax break. The City's attorneys were not Bright enough to know what the minimum performance requirement was for Pyramid to be entitled to the tax benefits. Terrible negotiation on their part. I've seen it too many times.

Your concern is valid, but that's not why Pyramid got away with robbery in that negotiation. It was a political move. The mayor at the time wanted the project to go forward; the corporation counsel balked at the one-sided contract; the mayor canned her and found an old ally to come in and sign off.

 

[KellySyracuse]

People moved to the suburbs because they could live cheaply and have a yard while reaping the city benefits easily because of the new highway system. 81 also played a major role in destroying the city center. My suggestion is move back into the city or quit bitching about your extra five minute commute.

bold, I've been thinking that when the conversation started years ago. I applaud you pointing out the obvious. The problem is the folks in the burbs have more money which means more influence than the city folks. The grid should have been the option at least 2 years ago but Congel paid a lot of people to bend DeFrancisco's ear.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Just curious, is anyone in this thread addressing 81 thru Scranton, PA, because it has been under construction since 1979.

I thank you for your time.

haha, oh my god yes. I've been driving that stretch for the past 12 years and it's been under construction the whole time.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Familiar Syracuse names could be mentioned in upcoming NY corruption trial