Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[OttoMets]

In other news the airport was ready for a ribbon cutting today... yeeesh. I very recently flew in/out of Hancock and am disappointed. I am all for improving aesthetics, and heaven knows that airport really needed a face-lift to get with the times, but man it seems like a poorly conceived, poorly executed, rush job with no practical or functional improvement to the flying public.

Among my chief complaints, there really isn't anything to do if god forbid your flight is delayed a few hours (and I would know first hand). No business center, or green area to sit and relax in (even in the lobby). Speaking of the lobby, it's dark and uninviting. What's with all the fake rock facade everywhere? Maybe on the 'grand staircase' but it's plastered everywhere in the lobby and is just odd (at least to me). I'd rather have a cool design feature or water feature... but I digress. The painted ceiling which I guess is supposed to tie into the floor color scheme just makes it more dark and closed in feeling. Plus I am literally butt-hurt over the crappy hard seats by the gates. couldn't allocate some of the 63 mill for padded seats? I'll even throw in a couple bonus items: the newly installed signage inside the airport is brutal. Who thought a dark blue background with important info that's not illuminated or bright in any way was smart? It's totally illegible more than 10 feet away. Don't get me started on the craptastic canopy outside, that will be a real treat in the winter, or the still untouched garage. I really don't know how this ran close to 65 million, but someone got a nice payday out of this.

Too bad some of the funds didn't go to functional improvements, or enticing more airlines from Hubs, or getting SW into the area. Don't get me wrong - I fly fairly often- and have seen many airports in big and small markets alike, and while Hancock is way nicer than it was... it could have been even better (a lot better from a practicality standpoint) for the customers flying in and out everyday.

Like the Amphitheatre, like the Expo Center, like virtually everything the county executive conspired with Cuomo to "improve." Slightly better, but so much worse than what that money could have bought. With the airport, the canopy situation is maybe the most ridiculous of all: in this climate, you're removing a huge, functional, drive-in roof...for what purpose?

Planning and public input are valuable. In a community with a lot of real needs, we pissed away a lot of money without them.

 

[kirbivore]

Wait you mean the Governor and his minions rushed another project and did it half arsed? No way. Lipstick on a pig and the posturing and pontificating is absurd. Is it better - for sure, is it good enough. No way.

People rip Miner for this, but I'm glad she said let's tap the brakes on the stadium. Shudder to think how that crew would've half assed that thing.

 

[RMH44]

In other news the airport was ready for a ribbon cutting today... yeeesh. I very recently flew in/out of Hancock and am disappointed. I am all for improving aesthetics, and heaven knows that airport really needed a face-lift to get with the times, but man it seems like a poorly conceived, poorly executed, rush job with no practical or functional improvement to the flying public.

Among my chief complaints, there really isn't anything to do if god forbid your flight is delayed a few hours (and I would know first hand). No business center, or green area to sit and relax in (even in the lobby). Speaking of the lobby, it's dark and uninviting. What's with all the fake rock facade everywhere? Maybe on the 'grand staircase' but it's plastered everywhere in the lobby and is just odd (at least to me). I'd rather have a cool design feature or water feature... but I digress. The painted ceiling which I guess is supposed to tie into the floor color scheme just makes it more dark and closed in feeling. Plus I am literally butt-hurt over the crappy hard seats by the gates. couldn't allocate some of the 63 mill for padded seats? I'll even throw in a couple bonus items: the newly installed signage inside the airport is brutal. Who thought a dark blue background with important info that's not illuminated or bright in any way was smart? It's totally illegible more than 10 feet away. Don't get me started on the craptastic canopy outside, that will be a real treat in the winter, or the still untouched garage. I really don't know how this ran close to 65 million, but someone got a nice payday out of this.

Too bad some of the funds didn't go to functional improvements, or enticing more airlines from Hubs, or getting SW into the area. Don't get me wrong - I fly fairly often- and have seen many airports in big and small markets alike, and while Hancock is way nicer than it was... it could have been even better (a lot better from a practicality standpoint) for the customers flying in and out everyday.

Hey...at least we got the coveted rain water recovery system!

 

[310Pigpen]

I'm sure it was just a coincidence both Rochester and Syracuse were done just before election day.

I was in the Rochester airport two weeks ago and said to myself wow it seems like this renovation is taking forever. I turned on the news last night and was blown away when they reported that it was finished. It certainly did not look finished when I was there a week before.

 

[Marty McFly]

Like the Amphitheatre, like the Expo Center, like virtually everything the county executive conspired with Cuomo to "improve." Slightly better, but so much worse than what that money could have bought. With the airport, the canopy situation is maybe the most ridiculous of all: in this climate, you're removing a huge, functional, drive-in roof...for what purpose?

Planning and public input are valuable. In a community with a lot of real needs, we pissed away a lot of money without them.

Cuomo may have backed this for election posturing, but he didn't half ass the design of it. Were the renderings even shown to the public in a townhall or just rammed through in back channel and kickback discussions?

To be honest what I really think the airport needs is to widen the united concourse, raise the roof on both concourses to create a "wow" factor. In the lobby add things that celebrate the region, it's history... add an Everson museum exhibit. Create a lounge or business center, or another comfortable place to sit (the old smelly dorm couches from the 70's on the back side of the escalators not-withstanding. Perhaps additional shopping and restaurants in the lobby (if possible).

Perhaps I am not up on real world costs for these type of projects, but seems we could have gotten a much better ROI. Then factoring in the garage,canopy etc. it is woefully inadequate.

 

[Trueblue25]

I’ll concede that Syracuse seems to be showing a resurgence recapturing the younger professional demographic that usually coincides with urban prosperity. However, I find it hard to support cuomo’s shortcomings and inefficiencies. I think others could capitalize more fully.

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[Marty McFly]

Wow the neon "SYR" screams amateur hour. would have been really cool to get ephesus to do custom LED lighting for the outside, or on the canopy instead of that.

 

[OttoMets]

And yet again, the political hacks who run Onondaga County are doing their best to make a short-sighted decision: New Onondaga Lake trail could scare away bald eagles, Audubon says

To recap:

Trail near railroad tracks: dangerous and unacceptable.
Trail near bald eagle nesting area that's closed for three months a year despite a long-term goal to loop the lake: good idea.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

United Technologies breaks up, making Carrier Corp. independent company

United Technologies, the parent company of Carrier Corp., is breaking up into three companies, making Carrier an independent entity.

United Technologies made the announcement Monday in tandem with the announcement that it has acquired aviation electronics maker Rockwell Collins.

The breakup will results in three companies:

• United Technologies, comprised of Collins Aerospace Systems and Pratt & Whitney;
• Otis, the world's leading manufacturer of elevators, escalators and moving walkways; and
• Carrier, a global provider of HVAC, refrigeration and other products.

 

[TexanMark]

It would be nice if Carrier came home.

 

[orange79]

United Technologies breaks up, making Carrier Corp. independent company

United Technologies, the parent company of Carrier Corp., is breaking up into three companies, making Carrier an independent entity.

United Technologies made the announcement Monday in tandem with the announcement that it has acquired aviation electronics maker Rockwell Collins.

The breakup will results in three companies:

• United Technologies, comprised of Collins Aerospace Systems and Pratt & Whitney;
• Otis, the world's leading manufacturer of elevators, escalators and moving walkways; and
• Carrier, a global provider of HVAC, refrigeration and other products.

Before the multitude of "Does this make it easier to get out of the naming rights deal?" posts start, remember this:

• Carrier was acquired by UTC in 1979
• Ground was broken for the Dome in 1978

The deal to grant naming rights in perpetuity happened well before the acquisition, which did not effect it. There is no reason to believe this divestiture will have any substantive effect on the deal.

Obviously, any lawyers here can chime in, but I don't believe this will effect the effort (if such an effort exists ) to get out of the deal in any major way.

 

[xc84]

Before the multitude of "Does this make it easier to get out of the naming rights deal?" posts start, remember this:

• Carrier was acquired by UTC in 1979
• Ground was broken for the Dome in 1978

The deal to grant naming rights in perpetuity happened well before the acquisition, which did not effect it. There is no reason to believe this divestiture will have any substantive effect on the deal.

Obviously, any lawyers here can chime in, but I don't believe this will effect the effort (if such an effort exists ) to get out of the deal in any major way.

The donation from Carrier was made in February 1979. Carrier was acquired by UTC in July that same year.

I agree it has no effect on the name of the dome either way.

 

[orange79]

The donation from Carrier was made in February 1979. Carrier was acquired by UTC in July that same year.

I agree it has no effect on the name of the dome either way.

Exactly my point. Ground would not have been broken unless the framework was in place for the deal.

 

[Jake]

The only potential impact this could have is that by separating the companies, it’s possible that it might weaken Carrier’s financial position...therefore making them less willing to put up a fight.

But I have no idea if that’s the case or not, just me spitballing.

 

[SmilinBob]

Would Snapple be a possible sponsor for a new Dome?

 

[xc84]

Exactly my point. Ground would not have been broken unless the framework was in place for the deal.

Possibly. The gift allowed for minimal debt but Jake did say he thought it could have been done without the gift...just with unwanted added debt.

A lot of people confuse this donation with naming rights. It was not a naming rights deal but a one-time gift.

 

[richmondcuse03]

The only potential impact this could have is that by separating the companies, it’s possible that it might weaken Carrier’s financial position...therefore making them less willing to put up a fight.

But I have no idea if that’s the case or not, just me spitballing.

Carrier on its own is a pretty large entity -- if they want to fight it, they'll still be able to. I personally think it's foolish for them to fight it because there could be a lot of bad PR for them in doing so given how much they've abandoned the area and the U.S. as a whole. But they'd probably have to determine what the value of the name is in terms of marketing spend per year vs. what the fallout from a little bad PR is. How many average Americans choose their own HVAC brand anyways?

 

[IthacaMatt]

It would be nice if Carrier came home.

The majority of the site has been leveled. They ain't coming back.

 

[xc84]

Carrier on its own is a pretty large entity -- if they want to fight it, they'll still be able to. I personally think it's foolish for them to fight it because there could be a lot of bad PR for them in doing so given how much they've abandoned the area and the U.S. as a whole. But they'd probably have to determine what the value of the name is in terms of marketing spend per year vs. what the fallout from a little bad PR is. How many average Americans choose their own HVAC brand anyways?

I don't know about the PR. Carrier has an asset they paid for. It has a value. I don't see why it is bad PR to protect their asset...whether or not they viewed it as an asset in the beginning. It is worth many millions now which is why SU wants to sell naming rights. If SU does not have a solid case, they won't fight Carrier.

I still think SU may be making a case that the reno will make it a different building... different than the one Carrier donated to and therefore the Carrier Dome is no more and the new building can have a new name.

I think it will be interesting to see what happens with the name.

PS: I chose my HVAC brand when I replaced my furnace/AC.

 

[Rocco]

Exactly my point. Ground would not have been broken unless the framework was in place for the deal.

What was the amount of the donation? I know it's insanely cheap for the amount of exposure they've gotten.

 

[xc84]

What was the amount of the donation? I know it's insanely cheap for the amount of exposure they've gotten.

$2.75M but hindsight is 20/20. Back then there was no one saying it was cheap. Most thought it was a great deal for SU.

 

[orangecuse]

Possibly. The gift allowed for minimal debt but Jake did say he thought it could have been done without the gift...just with unwanted added debt.

A lot of people confuse this donation with naming rights. It was not a naming rights deal but a one-time gift.

You're correct. There was no such thing as "naming rights" back when this was done. It was 100% a "gift." No body back then, or for sometime afterwards called in naming rights. It has evolved to be believed by some as one in the same, but it's not synonymous. It's convenient though for Carrier to make this argument now (if they are doing so) for obvious financial self interests.

In the end, it'll come down to "intent" as that will be the biggest factor if this were to go to court/trial and for a judge to rule. The intent of this Carrier donation was a gift donation, not naming rights as it's known it today, it did not exist back then and wasn't the "spirit of the agreement."

 

[HtownOrange]

Don't be surprised if the Dome is still the Carrier Dome when all is said and done. Don't be surprised if Carrier installs the new AC free of charge, either. The deal is probably already in the works. SU has a history of long relationships and doing "the right thing" by all parties.

Why would SU change its character now? For a few million dollars in the short term? Something that can actually cost millions more in the long term. (remember that SU is a multi billion dollar industry!, a few million dollars will not harm the university, especially with a longer payoff down the road) SU is more likely to stay the course, work the deal behind the scenes and reveal the full details in their time.

 

[721Comstock]

Don't be surprised if the Dome is still the Carrier Dome when all is said and done. Don't be surprised if Carrier installs the new AC free of charge, either. The deal is probably already in the works. SU has a history of long relationships and doing "the right thing" by all parties.

Why would SU change its character now? For a few million dollars in the short term? Something that can actually cost millions more in the long term. (remember that SU is a multi billion dollar industry!, a few million dollars will not harm the university, especially with a longer payoff down the road) SU is more likely to stay the course, work the deal behind the scenes and reveal the full details in their time.

There’s nearly a zero % chance this is correct.

It’s not just “a few million dollars”.
It could be a million or more dollars per year, every year, forever.

It’s not a coincidence that the word “Carrier” has been conspicuously absent from any and all communications regarding the Dome reno project, from the start.