Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[shandeezy7]

NYS DOT expected to release report today favoring 'Community Grid' for I-81 replacement

 

[OttoMets]

NYS DOT expected to release report today favoring 'Community Grid' for I-81 replacement

Yeah, heard that electeds are getting the same summary presentation that ESF got, DEIS will be out tomorrow.

 

[Fly Rodder]

NYS DOT expected to release report today favoring 'Community Grid' for I-81 replacement

Before any action is taken, there will be several briefings with lawmakers and a public commentary period

We need another three years to discuss the new, super tunnel alternative. We should at least give it reasoned consideration.

 

[shandeezy7]

Before any action is taken, there will be several briefings with lawmakers and a public commentary period

We need another three years to discuss the new, super tunnel alternative. We should at least give it reasoned consideration.

Haha the lawsuits will be sure to follow. The viaduct is just gonna collapse on its own before anything is done. Just hope no one dies when it happens.

 

[wiseman3]

Good. Now lets do it right. This too big of an opportunity to mess up and half-ass.

 

[KellySyracuse]

haha, this was my suggestion to DeFrancisco way back 5 or so years ago, why not designate 81 through the city as the business route and the outer loop as the bypass. He looked at me like I had 3 heads. At the time I had no idea if it was possible given that it's an interstate and not a state route. Let me edit and say I'm still confused
Exclusive: New York selects ‘community grid’ alternative for I-81 in Syracuse

What is now Interstate 81 would be re-designated a "business loop" in Syracuse under the "community grid" alternative chosen as the state as its preferred choice for the aging highway.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yeah, heard that electeds are getting the same summary presentation that ESF got, DEIS will be out tomorrow.

The difference, however, is that "The Electeds" get bribes to support the tunnel.
The University, hospitals, etc., do not.

 

[OttoMets]

Good. Now lets do it right. This too big of an opportunity to mess up and half-ass.

Given that the DEIS grid option is still referring to a 20-foot-wide median on Almond Street, there's some work left to do before this is done right.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

haha, this was my suggestion to DeFrancisco way back 5 or so years ago, why not designate 81 through the city as the business route and the outer loop as the bypass. He looked at me like I had 3 heads. At the time I had no idea if it was possible given that it's an interstate and not a state route. Let me edit and say I'm still confused
Exclusive: New York selects ‘community grid’ alternative for I-81 in Syracuse

What is now Interstate 81 would be re-designated a "business loop" in Syracuse under the "community grid" alternative chosen as the state as its preferred choice for the aging highway.

Change it to NY Rte 681. That way, people will expect traffic lights.

 

[KellySyracuse]

with designating 81 through the city as the business route and not changing it to 481 should alleviate a lot of the grievances from the businesses on 7th North St.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

They're going to renumber every exit on the new 81?

That means everything from Syracuse to Canada.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

17. Dewitt/ Fayetteville
18. 690
19. Kirkville Rd
20. 90
21. Bridgeport.
22. Northern Blvd
23. 481 to Fulton
24. Cicero
Etc...

 

[Zippy1808]

Nice of the chancellor to conveniently endorse the chosen option a few days before it became official.
Shows the university had no spine to actually make an endorsement in the first place.

 

[KellySyracuse]

They're going to renumber every exit on the new 81?

That means everything from Syracuse to Canada.

can they just add letters to the exits? 11a, 11b, 11c, 12, 13a, etc...

 

[rrlbees]

can they just add letters to the exits? 11a, 11b, 11c, 12, 13a, etc...

nys should get with it like other states and have exit numbers based upon mileage

 

[Cusefan0307]

nys should get with it like other states and have exit numbers based upon mileage

They recently did that(10 years ago?) on 17/86. I assume they will make that change here now.

 

[GoCuse08]

nys should get with it like other states and have exit numbers based upon mileage

That would make way too much sense.

 

[OttoMets]

nys should get with it like other states and have exit numbers based upon mileage

What I've been told is that NYSDOT doesn't want to do it in a piecemeal way (that is, if it's done, they want all expressways to follow that standard) and they won't do it because there are too many urban expressways with exits within a mile of each other, so they'd need a lot of Exit 34A, Exit 34B designations, which apparently confuse drivers.

I vote for mileage exit numbers as well, no good reason why people can't learn to deal.

 

[xc84]

What I've been told is that NYSDOT doesn't want to do it in a piecemeal way (that is, if it's done, they want all expressways to follow that standard) and they won't do it because there are too many urban expressways with exits within a mile of each other, so they'd need a lot of Exit 34A, Exit 34B designations, which apparently confuse drivers.

I vote for mileage exit numbers as well, no good reason why people can't learn to deal.

I could learn to deal but I am having no problem as-is either. The current designations are not confusing at all to me...in fact, I don't think about it until conversations like these arise.

 

[OttoMets]

I could learn to deal but I am having no problem as-is either. The current designations are not confusing at all to me...in fact, I don't think about it until conversations like these arise.

As a no-electronics driver, I think mileage-exits would satisfy curiosity now and again, they're definitely superior in that way, but the current arrangement doesn't really bother me either.

 

[dooey139]

Given that the DEIS grid option is still referring to a 20-foot-wide median on Almond Street, there's some work left to do before this is done right.

Genuinely curious, why is a median bad?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Genuinely curious, why is a median bad?

Because it's unused space. I mean, sure, medians are nice, but after recapturing this land, you're just going to take a slice of it away again for a non-productive use? It's not like we don't have parks nearby, and bike lanes don't go in the middle of the street in a median.

 

[OttoMets]

Genuinely curious, why is a median bad?

Generally, because it speeds up traffic on what are intended to be slow neighborhood streets with compatible (and valuable) development. But specifically here, because it's $0-property-tax-generating public space in what was intended to be a project that could create high-value development parcels.

Worse, because it's trapped on a between two directions of traffic, it's space with no public value (not active green space for park use), and responsibility for maintenance will fall on a poor city that doesn't want it.

After a very quick skim through the document, I think this is the major problem with an otherwise pretty good plan.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Genuinely curious, why is a median bad?

Because it divides and rips communities apart!

 

[OrangeXtreme]

17. Dewitt/ Fayetteville
18. 690
19. Kirkville Rd
20. 90
21. Bridgeport.
22. Northern Blvd
23. 481 to Fulton
24. Cicero
Etc...

can they just add letters to the exits? 11a, 11b, 11c, 12, 13a, etc...

The last exit on I-81 Northbound before the proposed rerouting is currently 16A (where 81 & 481 split). Exit 29 is where 81 & 481 rejoin in Cicero.

If they have to renumber all the exits on Old 481/New 81, there are more numbers available then there are actual exits.

They could just renumber the 481 section and leave all the numbers on 81 north of Cicero to Canada unchanged, but that would leave a gap in the numbers.

Anyway, its above my paygrade.