Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

FrancoPizza

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Resplendent but do their flowers last for months?
Most flowering trees will look spectacular for about 1 week in northern zones before the petals or bracts fall. Some have a nice burst of spring color and fall foliage but there’s no magic specimen or cultivar that reliably gives you everything or else you’d see it in everyone’s yards. You have to be further south to have some luck with the repeat bloomers.
 
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OttoMets

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This millennial report (#3 Cuse): Could the numbers be skewed with the large amount of upper tiered apartments built close to the university that have opened in the last few years? I'd really look at that first to see if it is a lot of college student rentals.
Since New Haven and Madison are the other cities in the top three, I think you might be on to something here.
 

KellySyracuse

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in news that should be of no surprise to anyone...

Would I-81 community grid plan really hurt Destiny USA? Report, expert says no

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- The owners of Destiny USA having been lobbying for six years to kill any I-81 rebuild plan that eliminates high-speed highway access to the big Syracuse shopping mall.

They joined forces with suburban elected officials and a group of hotel owners in nearby Salina to speak against tearing down the aging elevated section of the interstate through downtown Syracuse and replace it with a street-level boulevard.

...Do they have reason to worry? Not according to the state transportation officials. They say the community grid would have little to no impact on the mall.

“Regionally, although I-81 would be rerouted along the current I-481 alignment, highway connections to Destiny USA would continue from all directions,” the department said in its draft design report and environmental impact statement. “Although travel times from the south may increase, the change would be small and unlikely to affect visitation from regional consumers.”
 

Cusefan0307

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Since New Haven and Madison are the other cities in the top three, I think you might be on to something here.
Maybe. Maybe not.

There was a study posted on the OT board showing productivity, standard of living, wage growth, and median earnings change are all increasing above the US average. Jobs at new firms are also up almost 4%. I think that's correlated to the study posted here.
 

shandeezy7

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in news that should be of no surprise to anyone...

Would I-81 community grid plan really hurt Destiny USA? Report, expert says no

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- The owners of Destiny USA having been lobbying for six years to kill any I-81 rebuild plan that eliminates high-speed highway access to the big Syracuse shopping mall.

They joined forces with suburban elected officials and a group of hotel owners in nearby Salina to speak against tearing down the aging elevated section of the interstate through downtown Syracuse and replace it with a street-level boulevard.

...Do they have reason to worry? Not according to the state transportation officials. They say the community grid would have little to no impact on the mall.

“Regionally, although I-81 would be rerouted along the current I-481 alignment, highway connections to Destiny USA would continue from all directions,” the department said in its draft design report and environmental impact statement. “Although travel times from the south may increase, the change would be small and unlikely to affect visitation from regional consumers.”
As I've said all along - how much daily traffic does the mall get from folks driving by on 81 and saying "oh hey, there's a mall, let's stop!"? That number has to be negligible. People that are going to the mall are ones that have decided that they are going to the mall long before they drive by it, and if it takes a few extra minutes to get there, it's in no way a deterrent.
 

Cusefan0307

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I drive by the mall 2 to 4 times a day and go maybe once a year and that's usually to meet some friend at some bar.
 

KellySyracuse

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I can get on board with some of these suggestions:

Business Leaders Outline "Community Grid Plus" Plan For I-81 Replacement

"Some Central New York business leaders are advocating for some changes to be made regarding the community grid option to replace a portion of Interstate 81 through the city of Syracuse.

Centerstate CEO leaders are hoping to get people onboard with what they're calling "Community Grid Plus."

During a meeting the development organization had in Manlius on Tuesday, they revealed an extra 10 points to their plan that are not included in the current community grid option.

The plan, as outlined by Centerstate CEO, includes:
  • A comprehensive investment in modern public transit, including bus rapid transit, in parallel with any decision on I-81
  • More significant improvements to the I-481 corridor than those presented by NYSDOT, and urges other key enhancements, such as improvements to Bear Street in the Inner Harbor
  • An economic mitigation fund for affected stakeholders and municipalities to prepare for the projects potential impacts on local businesses
  • A locally-led revitalization commission to ensure the redevelopment projects are inclusive, with strong MWBE and local participation, and to encourage mixed-income projects
  • The highest quality design consistent with its urban setting
  • A coordinated regional approach to shift truck traffic away from towns, villages and our drinking water
  • Revisiting the elimination of Thruway tolls in the Syracuse area, among others.
 

gocusecaz

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There is no reason why tolls can't be suspended from Exits 39 to 34A. While they are at it put in EZPass lanes with optical/electronic scanners to bypass the toll collectors
I think the state is already working on getting rid of the toll booths. It will be the ez pass or plate reader to collect the tolls
 

Newhouser

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I can get on board with some of these suggestions:

Business Leaders Outline "Community Grid Plus" Plan For I-81 Replacement

"Some Central New York business leaders are advocating for some changes to be made regarding the community grid option to replace a portion of Interstate 81 through the city of Syracuse.

Centerstate CEO leaders are hoping to get people onboard with what they're calling "Community Grid Plus."

During a meeting the development organization had in Manlius on Tuesday, they revealed an extra 10 points to their plan that are not included in the current community grid option.

The plan, as outlined by Centerstate CEO, includes:
  • A comprehensive investment in modern public transit, including bus rapid transit, in parallel with any decision on I-81
  • More significant improvements to the I-481 corridor than those presented by NYSDOT, and urges other key enhancements, such as improvements to Bear Street in the Inner Harbor
  • An economic mitigation fund for affected stakeholders and municipalities to prepare for the projects potential impacts on local businesses
  • A locally-led revitalization commission to ensure the redevelopment projects are inclusive, with strong MWBE and local participation, and to encourage mixed-income projects
  • The highest quality design consistent with its urban setting
  • A coordinated regional approach to shift truck traffic away from towns, villages and our drinking water
  • Revisiting the elimination of Thruway tolls in the Syracuse area, among others.
Centerstate puts themselves out there after the fact and rarely delivers on anything. If one thing is changed though they will issue a release to take credit.
 

OttoMets

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To be fair to CenterState, they did put these points out in February, before the state released their report:

Centerstate CEO Supports Community Grid Option (Plus a Few Other Suggestions)
Yes, CenterState's behind-the-scenes lobbying against the "missing link" flyovers in Franklin Square is what turned the tide against that feature.

I've argued against tolls between 39 and 34A in the past, mostly because I don't like what commuters have done to Liverpool, but I'd be just as happy to see the tolls stay. Why should the rest of New York further subsidize the commutes of a few thousand people who choose to live way out in Clay? Let 'em pay for the privilege.
 

sutomcat

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Yes, CenterState's behind-the-scenes lobbying against the "missing link" flyovers in Franklin Square is what turned the tide against that feature.

I've argued against tolls between 39 and 34A in the past, mostly because I don't like what commuters have done to Liverpool, but I'd be just as happy to see the tolls stay. Why should the rest of New York further subsidize the commutes of a few thousand people who choose to live way out in Clay? Let 'em pay for the privilege.
As someone who uses the thruway just about every day, and lives in Clay, I will answer this for you.

First, the cost isn't big. I pay it and don't worry about it. It was like that when I moved to Liverpool and it is the setup I signed up for. Even though when I moved, the tolls on the thruway were supposed to be lifted forever in a few years, which of course never happened.

This is not a big deal to me. I am never going to write a letter to someone, or fill out a petition or do anything of substance to try and make it go away.

The thing that bothers me that the thruway is free in Buffalo but not Syracuse. It bothers me that CNY always seems to get the short straw on these kinds of things. I don't like CNY residents being treated like second class citizens.
 

OttoMets

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As someone who uses the thruway just about every day, and lives in Clay, I will answer this for you.

First, the cost isn't big. I pay it and don't worry about it. It was like that when I moved to Liverpool and it is the setup I signed up for. Even though when I moved, the tolls on the thruway were supposed to be lifted forever in a few years, which of course never happened.

This is not a big deal to me. I am never going to write a letter to someone, or fill out a petition or do anything of substance to try and make it go away.

The thing that bothers me that the thruway is free in Buffalo but not Syracuse. It bothers me that CNY always seems to get the short straw on these kinds of things. I don't like CNY residents being treated like second class citizens.
I'd like to learn about the history of the last bit. Wouldn't surprise me if the original Thruway and future portions of I-90 around Buffalo were built in sections and this came to pass organically, while the Thruway was built more or less continuously through the rest of the canal corridor and not split into toll/non-toll sections.

Liverpool would be better off if more Clay commuters did what you do. I'd be in favor of throwing a few million dollars into a high-speed interchange enhancement at Oswego Road with the goal of diverting more traffic onto the Thruway and out of the village.
 

Capt. Tuttle

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LOL, at this point its all craft all the time. New England Style IPA's, Sours, DIPA, Double dry hopped IPAs and Pale Ales, Quads etc etc. Otto Mets crew is only drinking PBR on throwback nights.
I depise IPAs.
My son and I we're in O'Hare having breakfast on AM on the last leg of a brutal cluster F of a trip, and my son starts laughing. I asked why? He said look at that hipster at the bar.
The hipster asked the bartender if they had an IPA, and the bartender pointed to the taps and said they are all IPAs, which one do you want.
The point being, the guy didn't even know what the hell an IPA was, but he was ordering one because he thought it was hip.
 

wiseman3

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Yes, CenterState's behind-the-scenes lobbying against the "missing link" flyovers in Franklin Square is what turned the tide against that feature.

I've argued against tolls between 39 and 34A in the past, mostly because I don't like what commuters have done to Liverpool, but I'd be just as happy to see the tolls stay. Why should the rest of New York further subsidize the commutes of a few thousand people who choose to live way out in Clay? Let 'em pay for the privilege.
I love the Franklin Square area so I'm biased, but I like them removing the flyovers. They would have been huge and ugly. Not exactly what you want to put in an area of downtown that is really thriving
 

OttoMets

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I love the Franklin Square area so I'm biased, but I like them removing the flyovers. They would have been huge and ugly. Not exactly what you want to put in an area of downtown that is really thriving
Exactly. At the very least, "do no harm" should have (and to some extent I think was) been the guiding principle of the planning process. Central New York's not in great shape. It'd be crazy to make some of the bright spots irreparably worse.
 

shandeezy7

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I'd like to learn about the history of the last bit. Wouldn't surprise me if the original Thruway and future portions of I-90 around Buffalo were built in sections and this came to pass organically, while the Thruway was built more or less continuously through the rest of the canal corridor and not split into toll/non-toll sections.

Liverpool would be better off if more Clay commuters did what you do. I'd be in favor of throwing a few million dollars into a high-speed interchange enhancement at Oswego Road with the goal of diverting more traffic onto the Thruway and out of the village.
This talks about removing the tolls on the 190 in Buffalo, but I have no idea about the history of Route 90 through the Buffalo area and why it's toll-free.

Tolls finally removed from Thruway in Buffalo, NY
 

sutomcat

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I'd like to learn about the history of the last bit. Wouldn't surprise me if the original Thruway and future portions of I-90 around Buffalo were built in sections and this came to pass organically, while the Thruway was built more or less continuously through the rest of the canal corridor and not split into toll/non-toll sections.

Liverpool would be better off if more Clay commuters did what you do. I'd be in favor of throwing a few million dollars into a high-speed interchange enhancement at Oswego Road with the goal of diverting more traffic onto the Thruway and out of the village.
It looks to me as though Buffalo stopping paying tolls in 2006.


That makes Cuomo's arguments pretty weak.


Original promise broken:

 

OttoMets

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It looks to me as though Buffalo stopping paying tolls in 2006.


That makes Cuomo's arguments pretty weak.


Original promise broken:

Good find, but a scan of the map leads me to think that this refers to the I-190 spur between 90 and Grand Island. I guess it was tolled back then? I don't remember. The "free Thruway" gap on 90 must predate this, but unfortunately online reading material on this road-building history is really limited.

The "promise broken" thing doesn't bother me, maybe because I wasn't around back then. But in hindsight it just looks like an honest mistake, a policy lesson. America had never attempted anything on the scale of interstate highways at the time when the Thruway was built, I'm sure the intentions were good but the state was so far off in thinking that it could afford perpetual maintenance. Society's come a long way, for better or worse, since the days of unlimited free money for highways, we've learned a lot. We haven't raised the federal gas tax since the first Bush administration and it'd be irresponsible, in my opinion, not to have some user fees on the Thruway to keep it in decent repair.
 

shandeezy7

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Good find, but a scan of the map leads me to think that this refers to the I-190 spur between 90 and Grand Island. I guess it was tolled back then? I don't remember. The "free Thruway" gap on 90 must predate this, but unfortunately online reading material on this road-building history is really limited.

The "promise broken" thing doesn't bother me, maybe because I wasn't around back then. But in hindsight it just looks like an honest mistake, a policy lesson. America had never attempted anything on the scale of interstate highways at the time when the Thruway was built, I'm sure the intentions were good but the state was so far off in thinking that it could afford perpetual maintenance. Society's come a long way, for better or worse, since the days of unlimited free money for highways, we've learned a lot. We haven't raised the federal gas tax since the first Bush administration and it'd be irresponsible, in my opinion, not to have some user fees on the Thruway to keep it in decent repair.
Yeah, that's referencing the removal of tolls from the 190. I remember going to visit my grandmother in Buffalo back then and having to pay tolls to take the 190 into downtown Buffalo. Here's a satellite image of one of the old toll locations just north of the Peace Bridge. You can see where the highway previously widened to make room for the toll booths.

161805
 

KellySyracuse

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there is an easy way to make the tolls free between those exits in CNY, just increase the rate between the other tolls to make up the difference. The Buffalo and Albany commuters don't have to pay tolls, there should be some equity afforded for the CNY commuters. The time to announce it is when they finally stamp MOVE FORWARD WITH CONSTRUCTION for the community grid.
 

Fly Rodder

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America had never attempted anything on the scale of interstate highways at the time when the Thruway was built, I'm sure the intentions were good but the state was so far off in thinking that it could afford perpetual maintenance. Society's come a long way, for better or worse, since the days of unlimited free money for highways, we've learned a lot.
Agreed. The thruways/interstates also see so much more traffic than they expected and heavier traffic as well. I read somewhere that a single fully loaded tractor trailer puts as much stress on a roadbed as 10,000 cars.
 

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