Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[shandeezy7]

Centerstate puts themselves out there after the fact and rarely delivers on anything. If one thing is changed though they will issue a release to take credit.

To be fair to CenterState, they did put these points out in February, before the state released their report:

Centerstate CEO Supports Community Grid Option (Plus a Few Other Suggestions)

 

[OttoMets]

To be fair to CenterState, they did put these points out in February, before the state released their report:

Centerstate CEO Supports Community Grid Option (Plus a Few Other Suggestions)

Yes, CenterState's behind-the-scenes lobbying against the "missing link" flyovers in Franklin Square is what turned the tide against that feature.

I've argued against tolls between 39 and 34A in the past, mostly because I don't like what commuters have done to Liverpool, but I'd be just as happy to see the tolls stay. Why should the rest of New York further subsidize the commutes of a few thousand people who choose to live way out in Clay? Let 'em pay for the privilege.

 

[sutomcat]

Yes, CenterState's behind-the-scenes lobbying against the "missing link" flyovers in Franklin Square is what turned the tide against that feature.

I've argued against tolls between 39 and 34A in the past, mostly because I don't like what commuters have done to Liverpool, but I'd be just as happy to see the tolls stay. Why should the rest of New York further subsidize the commutes of a few thousand people who choose to live way out in Clay? Let 'em pay for the privilege.

As someone who uses the thruway just about every day, and lives in Clay, I will answer this for you.

First, the cost isn't big. I pay it and don't worry about it. It was like that when I moved to Liverpool and it is the setup I signed up for. Even though when I moved, the tolls on the thruway were supposed to be lifted forever in a few years, which of course never happened.

This is not a big deal to me. I am never going to write a letter to someone, or fill out a petition or do anything of substance to try and make it go away.

The thing that bothers me that the thruway is free in Buffalo but not Syracuse. It bothers me that CNY always seems to get the short straw on these kinds of things. I don't like CNY residents being treated like second class citizens.

 

[OttoMets]

As someone who uses the thruway just about every day, and lives in Clay, I will answer this for you.

First, the cost isn't big. I pay it and don't worry about it. It was like that when I moved to Liverpool and it is the setup I signed up for. Even though when I moved, the tolls on the thruway were supposed to be lifted forever in a few years, which of course never happened.

This is not a big deal to me. I am never going to write a letter to someone, or fill out a petition or do anything of substance to try and make it go away.

The thing that bothers me that the thruway is free in Buffalo but not Syracuse. It bothers me that CNY always seems to get the short straw on these kinds of things. I don't like CNY residents being treated like second class citizens.

I'd like to learn about the history of the last bit. Wouldn't surprise me if the original Thruway and future portions of I-90 around Buffalo were built in sections and this came to pass organically, while the Thruway was built more or less continuously through the rest of the canal corridor and not split into toll/non-toll sections.

Liverpool would be better off if more Clay commuters did what you do. I'd be in favor of throwing a few million dollars into a high-speed interchange enhancement at Oswego Road with the goal of diverting more traffic onto the Thruway and out of the village.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

LOL, at this point its all craft all the time. New England Style IPA's, Sours, DIPA, Double dry hopped IPAs and Pale Ales, Quads etc etc. Otto Mets crew is only drinking PBR on throwback nights.

I depise IPAs.
My son and I we're in O'Hare having breakfast on AM on the last leg of a brutal cluster of a trip, and my son starts laughing. I asked why? He said look at that hipster at the bar.
The hipster asked the bartender if they had an IPA, and the bartender pointed to the taps and said they are all IPAs, which one do you want.
The point being, the guy didn't even know what the hell an IPA was, but he was ordering one because he thought it was hip.

 

[wiseman3]

Yes, CenterState's behind-the-scenes lobbying against the "missing link" flyovers in Franklin Square is what turned the tide against that feature.

I've argued against tolls between 39 and 34A in the past, mostly because I don't like what commuters have done to Liverpool, but I'd be just as happy to see the tolls stay. Why should the rest of New York further subsidize the commutes of a few thousand people who choose to live way out in Clay? Let 'em pay for the privilege.

I love the Franklin Square area so I'm biased, but I like them removing the flyovers. They would have been huge and ugly. Not exactly what you want to put in an area of downtown that is really thriving

 

[OttoMets]

I love the Franklin Square area so I'm biased, but I like them removing the flyovers. They would have been huge and ugly. Not exactly what you want to put in an area of downtown that is really thriving

Exactly. At the very least, "do no harm" should have (and to some extent I think was) been the guiding principle of the planning process. Central New York's not in great shape. It'd be crazy to make some of the bright spots irreparably worse.

 

[shandeezy7]

I'd like to learn about the history of the last bit. Wouldn't surprise me if the original Thruway and future portions of I-90 around Buffalo were built in sections and this came to pass organically, while the Thruway was built more or less continuously through the rest of the canal corridor and not split into toll/non-toll sections.

Liverpool would be better off if more Clay commuters did what you do. I'd be in favor of throwing a few million dollars into a high-speed interchange enhancement at Oswego Road with the goal of diverting more traffic onto the Thruway and out of the village.

This talks about removing the tolls on the 190 in Buffalo, but I have no idea about the history of Route 90 through the Buffalo area and why it's toll-free.

Tolls finally removed from Thruway in Buffalo, NY

 

[sutomcat]

I'd like to learn about the history of the last bit. Wouldn't surprise me if the original Thruway and future portions of I-90 around Buffalo were built in sections and this came to pass organically, while the Thruway was built more or less continuously through the rest of the canal corridor and not split into toll/non-toll sections.

Liverpool would be better off if more Clay commuters did what you do. I'd be in favor of throwing a few million dollars into a high-speed interchange enhancement at Oswego Road with the goal of diverting more traffic onto the Thruway and out of the village.

It looks to me as though Buffalo stopping paying tolls in 2006.

https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2006/10/30/daily8.html

That makes Cuomo's arguments pretty weak.

Gov. Cuomo vetoes bill that would make Thruway free for Syracuse commuters

Gov. Andrew Cuomo has blocked a bill that would have made the Syracuse section of the New York State Thruway free of toll charges.

www.syracuse.com

Original promise broken:

THRUWAY'S TOLLS TO END IN '96 WITH FEDERAL AID (Published 1982)

www.nytimes.com

 

[OttoMets]

It looks to me as though Buffalo stopping paying tolls in 2006.

https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2006/10/30/daily8.html

That makes Cuomo's arguments pretty weak.

Gov. Cuomo vetoes bill that would make Thruway free for Syracuse commuters

Gov. Andrew Cuomo has blocked a bill that would have made the Syracuse section of the New York State Thruway free of toll charges.

www.syracuse.com

Original promise broken:

THRUWAY'S TOLLS TO END IN '96 WITH FEDERAL AID (Published 1982)

www.nytimes.com

Good find, but a scan of the map leads me to think that this refers to the I-190 spur between 90 and Grand Island. I guess it was tolled back then? I don't remember. The "free Thruway" gap on 90 must predate this, but unfortunately online reading material on this road-building history is really limited.

The "promise broken" thing doesn't bother me, maybe because I wasn't around back then. But in hindsight it just looks like an honest mistake, a policy lesson. America had never attempted anything on the scale of interstate highways at the time when the Thruway was built, I'm sure the intentions were good but the state was so far off in thinking that it could afford perpetual maintenance. Society's come a long way, for better or worse, since the days of unlimited free money for highways, we've learned a lot. We haven't raised the federal gas tax since the first Bush administration and it'd be irresponsible, in my opinion, not to have some user fees on the Thruway to keep it in decent repair.

 

[shandeezy7]

Good find, but a scan of the map leads me to think that this refers to the I-190 spur between 90 and Grand Island. I guess it was tolled back then? I don't remember. The "free Thruway" gap on 90 must predate this, but unfortunately online reading material on this road-building history is really limited.

The "promise broken" thing doesn't bother me, maybe because I wasn't around back then. But in hindsight it just looks like an honest mistake, a policy lesson. America had never attempted anything on the scale of interstate highways at the time when the Thruway was built, I'm sure the intentions were good but the state was so far off in thinking that it could afford perpetual maintenance. Society's come a long way, for better or worse, since the days of unlimited free money for highways, we've learned a lot. We haven't raised the federal gas tax since the first Bush administration and it'd be irresponsible, in my opinion, not to have some user fees on the Thruway to keep it in decent repair.

Yeah, that's referencing the removal of tolls from the 190. I remember going to visit my grandmother in Buffalo back then and having to pay tolls to take the 190 into downtown Buffalo. Here's a satellite image of one of the old toll locations just north of the Peace Bridge. You can see where the highway previously widened to make room for the toll booths.

 

[KellySyracuse]

there is an easy way to make the tolls free between those exits in CNY, just increase the rate between the other tolls to make up the difference. The Buffalo and Albany commuters don't have to pay tolls, there should be some equity afforded for the CNY commuters. The time to announce it is when they finally stamp MOVE FORWARD WITH CONSTRUCTION for the community grid.

 

[Fly Rodder]

America had never attempted anything on the scale of interstate highways at the time when the Thruway was built, I'm sure the intentions were good but the state was so far off in thinking that it could afford perpetual maintenance. Society's come a long way, for better or worse, since the days of unlimited free money for highways, we've learned a lot.

Agreed. The thruways/interstates also see so much more traffic than they expected and heavier traffic as well. I read somewhere that a single fully loaded tractor trailer puts as much stress on a roadbed as 10,000 cars.

 

[OttoMets]

Agreed. The thruways/interstates also see so much more traffic than they expected and heavier traffic as well. I read somewhere that a single fully loaded tractor trailer puts as much stress on a roadbed as 10,000 cars.

I was thinking this on my commute this morning, too - it's probably not an apples-to-oranges comparison in America, since most cars in the early interstate era were very heavy, but it's why our roads get beat up faster than those in Europe: everyone's driving around in a single-occupant tank. I'm always surprised to see how many large SUVs and similar vehicles are used for solo commuting. It has an effect on congestion and roadway wear and tear.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[OttoMets]

Reminds me of Sonny Corleone.

 

[TexanMark]

there is an easy way to make the tolls free between those exits in CNY, just increase the rate between the other tolls to make up the difference. The Buffalo and Albany commuters don't have to pay tolls, there should be some equity afforded for the CNY commuters. The time to announce it is when they finally stamp MOVE FORWARD WITH CONSTRUCTION for the community grid.

Exactly...as part of doing the community grid and saving a ton of money:. remove the local tolls. Quid pro Quo

 

[FrancoPizza]

Reminds me of Sonny Corleone.

Never understood why he didn’t gas it. Take a few of those fckers down with him.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Never understood why he didn’t gas it. Take a few of those fckers down with him.

He was boxed in.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I was having a few drinks with a friend that passed along some dome construction update info. He's in a position to know so these wouldn't be rumors...however take it for what it's worth as second hand info:

Air conditioning will be ready by the 1st football game, the scaffolding for this project should be going in soon if they haven't already started working on it.

They are laying a 6ft deep pad for the crane needed to construct the roof. Crane is coming from Houston, apparently takes 88 semi tractor trailers to get it here.

The electronics won't be getting replaced until next year, they'll need to redo the scaffolding they're putting in now for the air conditioning.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I was having a few drinks with a friend that passed along some dome construction update info. He's in a position to know so these wouldn't be rumors...however take it for what it's worth as second hand info:

Air conditioning will be ready by the 1st football game, the scaffolding for this project should be going in soon if they haven't already started working on it.

They are laying a 6ft deep pad for the crane needed to construct the roof. Crane is coming from Houston, apparently takes 88 semi tractor trailers to get it here.

The electronics won't be getting replaced until next year, they'll need to redo the scaffolding they're putting in now for the air conditioning.

I thought air conditioning isn't in the plans until 2022.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I thought air conditioning isn't in the plans until 2022.

that's what I thought, just passing along info from a pretty reliable source

 

[xc84]

We need a webcam!

 

[Eric15]

Never understood why he didn’t gas it. Take a few of those fckers down with him.

Didn’t want to risk an EZ-pass violation.

 

[cpatrocks]

They are laying a 6ft deep pad for the crane needed to construct the roof. Crane is coming from Houston, apparently takes 88 semi tractor trailers to get it here.

88? must be a typo?