Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[Zippy1808]

Nice of the chancellor to conveniently endorse the chosen option a few days before it became official.
Shows the university had no spine to actually make an endorsement in the first place.

 

[KellySyracuse]

They're going to renumber every exit on the new 81?

That means everything from Syracuse to Canada.

can they just add letters to the exits? 11a, 11b, 11c, 12, 13a, etc...

 

[rrlbees]

can they just add letters to the exits? 11a, 11b, 11c, 12, 13a, etc...

nys should get with it like other states and have exit numbers based upon mileage

 

[Cusefan0307]

nys should get with it like other states and have exit numbers based upon mileage

They recently did that(10 years ago?) on 17/86. I assume they will make that change here now.

 

[GoCuse08]

nys should get with it like other states and have exit numbers based upon mileage

That would make way too much sense.

 

[OttoMets]

nys should get with it like other states and have exit numbers based upon mileage

What I've been told is that NYSDOT doesn't want to do it in a piecemeal way (that is, if it's done, they want all expressways to follow that standard) and they won't do it because there are too many urban expressways with exits within a mile of each other, so they'd need a lot of Exit 34A, Exit 34B designations, which apparently confuse drivers.

I vote for mileage exit numbers as well, no good reason why people can't learn to deal.

 

[xc84]

What I've been told is that NYSDOT doesn't want to do it in a piecemeal way (that is, if it's done, they want all expressways to follow that standard) and they won't do it because there are too many urban expressways with exits within a mile of each other, so they'd need a lot of Exit 34A, Exit 34B designations, which apparently confuse drivers.

I vote for mileage exit numbers as well, no good reason why people can't learn to deal.

I could learn to deal but I am having no problem as-is either. The current designations are not confusing at all to me...in fact, I don't think about it until conversations like these arise.

 

[OttoMets]

I could learn to deal but I am having no problem as-is either. The current designations are not confusing at all to me...in fact, I don't think about it until conversations like these arise.

As a no-electronics driver, I think mileage-exits would satisfy curiosity now and again, they're definitely superior in that way, but the current arrangement doesn't really bother me either.

 

[dooey139]

Given that the DEIS grid option is still referring to a 20-foot-wide median on Almond Street, there's some work left to do before this is done right.

Genuinely curious, why is a median bad?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Genuinely curious, why is a median bad?

Because it's unused space. I mean, sure, medians are nice, but after recapturing this land, you're just going to take a slice of it away again for a non-productive use? It's not like we don't have parks nearby, and bike lanes don't go in the middle of the street in a median.

 

[OttoMets]

Genuinely curious, why is a median bad?

Generally, because it speeds up traffic on what are intended to be slow neighborhood streets with compatible (and valuable) development. But specifically here, because it's $0-property-tax-generating public space in what was intended to be a project that could create high-value development parcels.

Worse, because it's trapped on a between two directions of traffic, it's space with no public value (not active green space for park use), and responsibility for maintenance will fall on a poor city that doesn't want it.

After a very quick skim through the document, I think this is the major problem with an otherwise pretty good plan.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Genuinely curious, why is a median bad?

Because it divides and rips communities apart!

 

[OrangeXtreme]

17. Dewitt/ Fayetteville
18. 690
19. Kirkville Rd
20. 90
21. Bridgeport.
22. Northern Blvd
23. 481 to Fulton
24. Cicero
Etc...

can they just add letters to the exits? 11a, 11b, 11c, 12, 13a, etc...

The last exit on I-81 Northbound before the proposed rerouting is currently 16A (where 81 & 481 split). Exit 29 is where 81 & 481 rejoin in Cicero.

If they have to renumber all the exits on Old 481/New 81, there are more numbers available then there are actual exits.

They could just renumber the 481 section and leave all the numbers on 81 north of Cicero to Canada unchanged, but that would leave a gap in the numbers.

Anyway, its above my paygrade.

 

[dooey139]

Because it's unused space. I mean, sure, medians are nice, but after recapturing this land, you're just going to take a slice of it away again for a non-productive use? It's not like we don't have parks nearby, and bike lanes don't go in the middle of the street in a median.

Generally, because it speeds up traffic on what are intended to be slow neighborhood streets with compatible (and valuable) development. But specifically here, because it's $0-property-tax-generating public space in what was intended to be a project that could create high-value development parcels.

Worse, because it's trapped on a between two directions of traffic, it's space with no public value (not active green space for park use), and responsibility for maintenance will fall on a poor city that doesn't want it.

After a very quick skim through the document, I think this is the major problem with an otherwise pretty good plan.

Makes sense. On the surface level I was thinking, why would greenery not be a good thing, but completely understand why it would be a waste as well.

 

[NJCuse97]

That would make way too much sense.

Garden State Parkway has been this way since it's construction and I've always loved knowing how far I needed to go (and about how long it should take me) without having to look at a map (before or after smart phones and car nav. systems). This logic may even be the origin for the banal "what exit" joke.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Makes sense. On the surface level I was thinking, why would greenery not be a good thing, but completely understand why it would be a waste as well.

The homeless can be put to work "watering" those giant maple trees that we see in the renderings, and those weeds aren't going to pull themselves.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they propose a memorial to all the residents who have been displaced and traumatized by these construction projects over the years.

 

[shandeezy7]

The homeless can be put to work "watering" those giant maple trees that we see in the renderings, and those weeds aren't going to pull themselves.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they propose a memorial to all the residents who have been displaced and traumatized by these construction projects over the years.

Just give it a rest, man...

 

[longtimefan]

The homeless can be put to work "watering" those giant maple trees that we see in the renderings, and those weeds aren't going to pull themselves.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they propose a memorial to all the residents who have been displaced and traumatized by these construction projects over the years.

Suggestion:
Get out your Funk & Wagnall's and look up the word "empathy".

 

[sutomcat]

Makes sense. On the surface level I was thinking, why would greenery not be a good thing, but completely understand why it would be a waste as well.

I find the light blue colored streets and massive deployment of fully grown, mature trees to be a little much.

Based on what I have seen with attempts to grow trees downtown, I do not expect any trees to make it to anywhere close to the level of maturity of the ones featured in the images provided.
I wish the people doing the drawings were a little more grounded in reality.

Disappointed the promised interchange between I690W and I81N didn't make it. For $2 billion dollars, I would hope we could have addressed a fundamental traffic flow issue that will only be exacerbated by the grid.

I have a hard time understanding why all these options are so obscenely expensive. Heck, I can't begin to understand how almost $40 million was spent just on studies.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Makes sense. On the surface level I was thinking, why would greenery not be a good thing, but completely understand why it would be a waste as well.

I think there will be greenery, but I don't think you want to split city blocks where buildings could go, or make the usable land too small to build on.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Medians are a maintentance PITA and the city does not have the budget to keep up with the required landscaping suggested in the renderings. Weeds start growing and within a year it will look like Erie Blvd. Just separate the north-south traffic flow on BL81 with post dividers which takes up the least amount of space.

 

[maxxyz]

Medians are a maintenance PITA and the city does not have the budget to keep up with the required landscaping suggested in the renderings. Weeds start growing and within a year it will look like Erie Blvd. Just separate the north-south traffic flow on BL81 with post dividers which takes up the least amount of space.

The cost of maintaining the medians is insignificant, especially when compared to the $15,000,000 a year in maintenance that the tunnel option estimated. And the idea of a community grid is to create more open areas, not add to the building congestion and concrete jungle. If there is a concern its the loss of downtown parking spaces, not median greenery.

And you seem a little obsessed with weeds. Was it something from your childhood?

 

[reedny]

Makes sense. On the surface level I was thinking, why would greenery not be a good thing, but completely understand why it would be a waste as well.

Greenery isn't always a negative. I'm not in Syracuse, so this is my .02 from afar. But as we've learned in Rochester with the Inner Loop Removal project, insisting that every square inch has to be "tax-producing" isn't the answer either. That just reduces the value of the surrounding properties with too much density (and looks overbuilt and ugly). There's a balance - some open space adds to the aesthetic and makes the surrounding areas more livable (and valuable).

 

[FrancoPizza]

The cost of maintaining the medians is insignificant, especially when compared to the $15,000,000 a year in maintenance that the tunnel option estimated. And the idea of a community grid is to create more open areas, not add to the building congestion and concrete jungle. If there is a concern its the loss of downtown parking spaces, not median greenery.

And you seem a little obsessed with weeds. Was it something from your childhood?

I'm not comparing medians to a tunnel. Just saying the city has a less-than-impressive track record of keeping up with maintenance repairs on the existing street grid. Erie blvd has medians and most of those are eyesores because they are crumbling and overrun with weeds. Take out the proposed median and add a dedicated "thru" lane for lighter/heavier vehicles... or an extra turn lane.

 

[Atlcuse44]

Greenery isn't always a negative. I'm not in Syracuse, so this is my .02 from afar. But as we've learned in Rochester with the Inner Loop Removal project, insisting that every square should be "tax-producing" isn't the answer either. That just reduces the value of the surrounding properties because it creates too much density (and looks overbuilt and ugly). There's a balance - some open space adds to the aesthetic and makes the surrounding areas more livable (and valuable).

Couldn't agree more. Yes, adding greenery is purely for aesthetic reasons and that IMO is good. Why would you want a bunch of dirty concrete that will be an eyesore after a few Syracuse winters when you could have something that adds some visual appeal?