Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[dooey139]

Because it's unused space. I mean, sure, medians are nice, but after recapturing this land, you're just going to take a slice of it away again for a non-productive use? It's not like we don't have parks nearby, and bike lanes don't go in the middle of the street in a median.

Generally, because it speeds up traffic on what are intended to be slow neighborhood streets with compatible (and valuable) development. But specifically here, because it's $0-property-tax-generating public space in what was intended to be a project that could create high-value development parcels.

Worse, because it's trapped on a between two directions of traffic, it's space with no public value (not active green space for park use), and responsibility for maintenance will fall on a poor city that doesn't want it.

After a very quick skim through the document, I think this is the major problem with an otherwise pretty good plan.

Makes sense. On the surface level I was thinking, why would greenery not be a good thing, but completely understand why it would be a waste as well.

 

[NJCuse97]

That would make way too much sense.

Garden State Parkway has been this way since it's construction and I've always loved knowing how far I needed to go (and about how long it should take me) without having to look at a map (before or after smart phones and car nav. systems). This logic may even be the origin for the banal "what exit" joke.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Makes sense. On the surface level I was thinking, why would greenery not be a good thing, but completely understand why it would be a waste as well.

The homeless can be put to work "watering" those giant maple trees that we see in the renderings, and those weeds aren't going to pull themselves.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they propose a memorial to all the residents who have been displaced and traumatized by these construction projects over the years.

 

[shandeezy7]

The homeless can be put to work "watering" those giant maple trees that we see in the renderings, and those weeds aren't going to pull themselves.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they propose a memorial to all the residents who have been displaced and traumatized by these construction projects over the years.

Just give it a rest, man...

 

[longtimefan]

The homeless can be put to work "watering" those giant maple trees that we see in the renderings, and those weeds aren't going to pull themselves.

And it wouldn't surprise me if they propose a memorial to all the residents who have been displaced and traumatized by these construction projects over the years.

Suggestion:
Get out your Funk & Wagnall's and look up the word "empathy".

 

[sutomcat]

Makes sense. On the surface level I was thinking, why would greenery not be a good thing, but completely understand why it would be a waste as well.

I find the light blue colored streets and massive deployment of fully grown, mature trees to be a little much.

Based on what I have seen with attempts to grow trees downtown, I do not expect any trees to make it to anywhere close to the level of maturity of the ones featured in the images provided.
I wish the people doing the drawings were a little more grounded in reality.

Disappointed the promised interchange between I690W and I81N didn't make it. For $2 billion dollars, I would hope we could have addressed a fundamental traffic flow issue that will only be exacerbated by the grid.

I have a hard time understanding why all these options are so obscenely expensive. Heck, I can't begin to understand how almost $40 million was spent just on studies.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Makes sense. On the surface level I was thinking, why would greenery not be a good thing, but completely understand why it would be a waste as well.

I think there will be greenery, but I don't think you want to split city blocks where buildings could go, or make the usable land too small to build on.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Medians are a maintentance PITA and the city does not have the budget to keep up with the required landscaping suggested in the renderings. Weeds start growing and within a year it will look like Erie Blvd. Just separate the north-south traffic flow on BL81 with post dividers which takes up the least amount of space.

 

[maxxyz]

Medians are a maintenance PITA and the city does not have the budget to keep up with the required landscaping suggested in the renderings. Weeds start growing and within a year it will look like Erie Blvd. Just separate the north-south traffic flow on BL81 with post dividers which takes up the least amount of space.

The cost of maintaining the medians is insignificant, especially when compared to the $15,000,000 a year in maintenance that the tunnel option estimated. And the idea of a community grid is to create more open areas, not add to the building congestion and concrete jungle. If there is a concern its the loss of downtown parking spaces, not median greenery.

And you seem a little obsessed with weeds. Was it something from your childhood?

 

[reedny]

Makes sense. On the surface level I was thinking, why would greenery not be a good thing, but completely understand why it would be a waste as well.

Greenery isn't always a negative. I'm not in Syracuse, so this is my .02 from afar. But as we've learned in Rochester with the Inner Loop Removal project, insisting that every square inch has to be "tax-producing" isn't the answer either. That just reduces the value of the surrounding properties with too much density (and looks overbuilt and ugly). There's a balance - some open space adds to the aesthetic and makes the surrounding areas more livable (and valuable).

 

[FrancoPizza]

The cost of maintaining the medians is insignificant, especially when compared to the $15,000,000 a year in maintenance that the tunnel option estimated. And the idea of a community grid is to create more open areas, not add to the building congestion and concrete jungle. If there is a concern its the loss of downtown parking spaces, not median greenery.

And you seem a little obsessed with weeds. Was it something from your childhood?

I'm not comparing medians to a tunnel. Just saying the city has a less-than-impressive track record of keeping up with maintenance repairs on the existing street grid. Erie blvd has medians and most of those are eyesores because they are crumbling and overrun with weeds. Take out the proposed median and add a dedicated "thru" lane for lighter/heavier vehicles... or an extra turn lane.

 

[Atlcuse44]

Greenery isn't always a negative. I'm not in Syracuse, so this is my .02 from afar. But as we've learned in Rochester with the Inner Loop Removal project, insisting that every square should be "tax-producing" isn't the answer either. That just reduces the value of the surrounding properties because it creates too much density (and looks overbuilt and ugly). There's a balance - some open space adds to the aesthetic and makes the surrounding areas more livable (and valuable).

Couldn't agree more. Yes, adding greenery is purely for aesthetic reasons and that IMO is good. Why would you want a bunch of dirty concrete that will be an eyesore after a few Syracuse winters when you could have something that adds some visual appeal?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Couldn't agree more. Yes, adding greenery is purely for aesthetic reasons and that IMO is good. Why would you want a bunch of dirty concrete that will be an eyesore after a few Syracuse winters when you could have something that adds some visual appeal?

I think you vastly overestimate the city's competency with maintaining greenery. Greenery at face value is refreshing. Weeds are also green, and that's the type of green we'll be seeing after the first year. The feds won't pay for weedkiller once the interstate is decommisioned.

 

[Atlcuse44]

I think you vastly overestimate the city's competency with maintaining greenery. Greenery at face value is refreshing. Weeds are also green, and that's the type of green we'll be seeing after the first year. The feds won't pay for weedkiller once the interstate is decommisioned.

Easy - roll out some old Dome turf and call it a day.

Seriously though, you are probably right on that. I'm spoiled here in the Atlanta suburbs where most of the medians are full of trees/plants and fairly well maintained.
You could always go with some sort of hardscape but I'm sure that would not be cost effective.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Easy - roll out some old Dome turf and call it a day.

Seriously though, you are probably right on that. I'm spoiled here in the Atlanta suburbs where most of the medians are full of trees/plants and fairly well maintained.
You could always go with some sort of hardscape but I'm sure that would not be cost effective.

proper landscape maintenance is expensive, especially to the extent that is being touted. Talking millions of dollars annually and I’m sure that is not being factored in. That’s why we’ll end up with weeds, dead grass, and sickly trees.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I think you vastly overestimate the city's competency with maintaining greenery. Greenery at face value is refreshing. Weeds are also green, and that's the type of green we'll be seeing after the first year. The feds won't pay for weedkiller once the interstate is decommisioned.

you could volunteer to help keep the city weed free, you seem to have a stray hair about it for some reason.

I've done the earth day clean ups for the city, I think I picked up a million cigarette butts each time. If you're on a mission to end weeds would you mind taking up a crusade against people throwing their trash out the window as they fly by through the city on the current interstate?

 

[FrancoPizza]

you could volunteer to help keep the city weed free, you seem to have a stray hair about it for some reason.

I've done the earth day clean ups for the city, I think I picked up a million cigarette butts each time. If you're on a mission to end weeds would you mind taking up a crusade against people throwing their trash out the window as they fly by through the city on the current interstate?

Volunteering isn’t a solution; it’s a band-aid. I’m not against weeds. I’m against the idea of medians that will eventually harbor these weeds unless there’s a guarantee that the feds will pay for upkeep

 

[KellySyracuse]

Volunteering isn’t a solution; it’s a band-aid. I’m not against weeds. I’m against the idea of medians that will eventually harbor these weeds unless there’s a guarantee that the feds will pay for upkeep

Well you have the opportunity to voice your opinion here:

https://www.dot.ny.gov/i81opportunities/contactus

You can also let them know about your beef with having to add 5-10 minutes to your daily commute because isn't that what all this ranting is about?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Well you have the opportunity to voice your opinion here:

https://www.dot.ny.gov/i81opportunities/contactus

You can also let them know about your beef with having to add 5-10 minutes to your daily commute because isn't that what all this ranting is about?

Actually no, it’s not. They made their decision. Now it’s about executing the grid plan using common sense and weedless initiatives. No point in debating the tunnel and commute times any further. Kind of like the pointless man vs zone debates.

 

[longtimefan]

Actually no, it’s not. They made their decision. Now it’s about executing the grid plan using common sense and weedless initiatives. No point in debating the tunnel and commute times any further. Kind of like the pointless man vs zone debates.

The tunnel was a diversion. If you read the details about what it would entail, you would quickly conclude that it was not a serious option--just a Hail Mary by a few local special interests. The whole process is maybe 2 years behind where it should be because of their political shenanigans.

 

[JeffCuse]

Because it's unused space. I mean, sure, medians are nice, but after recapturing this land, you're just going to take a slice of it away again for a non-productive use? It's not like we don't have parks nearby, and bike lanes don't go in the middle of the street in a median.

I agree. This feels like a wasted opportunity. Im not sure what they can do with it, but do something.

 

[wiseman3]

Is it really that bad that there wont be a 690 to 81 north interchange? They've already stated that Bear St. will be greatly improved. With this and Hiawatha, I think it'll be fine. Sure its a little busy for rush hour after work( i drive it every day) but its not like its some huge hassle to get on 81 north. After its all said and done it will probably be faster

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

We wanted to host a client event at the Hotel Syracuse. 2-3x more expensive than other hotels in the area. Couple that with inconvenient parking, and it's not ideal.

 

[sutomcat]

We wanted to host a client event at the Hotel Syracuse. 2-3x more expensive than other hotels in the area. Couple that with inconvenient parking, and it's not ideal.

I had a couple of days of meetings there a while ago. I parked kitty corner to the hotel and walked a block to the main entrance. It worked out well for me...

 

[shandeezy7]

We wanted to host a client event at the Hotel Syracuse. 2-3x more expensive than other hotels in the area. Couple that with inconvenient parking, and it's not ideal.

Is a several hundred car parking garage kitty corner from the Hotel Syracuse really inconvenient? Were you hoping that they would have parking in the lobby?