Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[OttoMets]

The quotes you are using come from 1958. The arguing, like now went on for years. The final decision wasn’t made until November of 1961 and the election of William Walsh, a huge proponent of urban renewal used to revitalize downtown merging the
2 project objectives.

‘The irony of ironies is that former Syracuse Mayor William Walsh was a proponent of the urban renewal and his son, Rep. James Walsh, R- Onondaga, is working to reverse some of the problems that urban renewal either caused or did not address.

The elder Walsh told the Post-Standard that he was in favor of the renewal because he wanted to revitalize the downtown area in an attempt to encourage residents, some of whom had flocked to the suburbs, to remain in the city. The flight still occurred, and city officials are still trying to get people to return to downtown and the city. ‘

Above italicized quote was from Post Standard ‘s own editorial in 2003 called 40 years later (1963 to 2003).

I was just a young kid but I remember the conversations of families we knew who were affected back then and their emotion regarding their houses being torn down , the effect of the incessant construction noise and dirt etc from having their streets impacted from Rte 81 being built , arguments over the loss of neighbors, turning their prior multiple block long streets turned into dead ends etc. in their conversations, they blamed the city, city developers and the mayor for their plight.

I think there is some revisionist history as stated going on because of the irony regarding the Walsh’s and the understandable avoidance of publicly tarnishing his long positive legacy years after his death.

My point was that this Rte 81 situation wasn’t initiated by the suburbs , in fact much of the original Rte 81 decision was made by the city to try to stem the flight to the suburbs where major employers like GE, Carrier, Pass and Seymour, Solvay Process, GM etc were already located. Shoppingtown was built in 1954, Fairmont Fair in 1959, Bayberry in 1957. The suburbs were expanding well before Rte 81 and many not even targeted for highway access were growing the quickest. (Fayetteville, Manlius, Westvale, Camillus etc). I love the city, born, raised and owned my first home within the city but the fact is that unless you are a government employee, hospital employee, university employee or service employee related to those employers most of the largest city’s employers are within a quarter to a half mile within the city. The only available land and parking for large employers was in the suburbs even back in the 50’s. The people were following the employers to the suburbs and suburban shopping centers followed the people. The city has become the crucial ‘service capital’ for all of Onondaga County for government, hospital and college services. As others have stated, the city needs the suburbs and the suburbs need the city so it would be nice to stop the divisiveness that seems to overwhelm every issue in today’s world and respect and evaluate everyone’s needs into play.

This long article reminded me of your post from last week, it offers a decent partial history of I-81 and urban renewal: The Highway Was Supposed to Save This City. Can Tearing It Down Fix the Sins of the Past?

 

[Fly Rodder]

This long article reminded me of your post from last week, it offers a decent partial history of I-81 and urban renewal: The Highway Was Supposed to Save This City. Can Tearing It Down Fix the Sins of the Past?

Great article ... lots of smart bits in there.

Also, this development thread is now in its rightful home.

 

[OttoMets]

Great article ... lots of smart bits in there.

Also, this development thread is now in its rightful home.

Now that it's hidden on the dark side, I'm more comfortable making disparaging remarks about people like Minch Lewis.

 

[bballbeadle]

Great article ... lots of smart bits in there.

Also, this development thread is now in its rightful home.

I used to go to the football board to read this thread; also the one about campus development and dome renovation.

Innocent people are going to be diverted to this forum and I would hate to be the one doing mop up duty!

 

[ebucklewis]

I used to go to the football board to read this thread; also the one about campus development and dome renovation.

Innocent people are going to be diverted to this forum and I would hate to be the one doing mop up duty!

Don't be afraid of ordinary people seeing how crazy you lefties are when unencumbered - you are still part of the family! LGO

 

[shandeezy7]

I used to go to the football board to read this thread; also the one about campus development and dome renovation.

Innocent people are going to be diverted to this forum and I would hate to be the one doing mop up duty!

 

[KellySyracuse]

 

[shandeezy7]

New family-run Italian eatery/pizzeria opens in Fayetteville

 

[OttoMets]

New family-run Italian eatery/pizzeria opens in Fayetteville

In a similar vein: What the heck is a ‘brewseum’ and why is it coming to Syracuse’s Inner Harbor?

Sounds cool, I'd check it out.

This was one of the rare times I read the comments section and somebody made a good point - weird that the owner talked all about "81, 690, easy in and easy out" but not about the hundreds of apartments upstairs and within a five-minute walk. Struck me as kind of tacky. Yay, drinking and driving in Central New York.

 

[shandeezy7]

In a similar vein: What the heck is a ‘brewseum’ and why is it coming to Syracuse’s Inner Harbor?

Sounds cool, I'd check it out.

This was one of the rare times I read the comments section and somebody made a good point - weird that the owner talked all about "81, 690, easy in and easy out" but not about the hundreds of apartments upstairs and within a five-minute walk. Struck me as kind of tacky. Yay, drinking and driving in Central New York.

One of the partners in that project, Dave Collins, was head brewer at Resurgence Brewing and 42 North Brewing, both highly successful in Buffalo.

 

[Cusefan0307]

While the Downtown Committee counts about 4,000 people living Downtown, which they probably define a little more "tightly" to include only the best blocks, a demographics report on people living in Downtown Syracuse counts 6,200 total residents.

Of those 6,200 residents, the population is split almost 50/50 in terms of gender, and the average age of downtown residents is 26 years old. There are 2400 "households" in Downtown Syracuse, of which the average household size is 2 people.

Of those 2400 households, only 800 (1/3) are considered "Family Households" - meaning that 2/3 are roommate situations. Against, another sign pointing to students, and possibly young professionals.

However, of those 6,200 residents, only 1750 have jobs. Thus 72% are students, children or unemployed.

Average Household Income	$37,407.40
Median Household Income	$15,000.00

So, with average rents of over $2,000 per month, it's highly unlikely that a household earning $37,000 can afford the rent. That, too, is more indicative of students living in housing, not working people.

Just hired 3 new graduates for a rotational GDP all making at least 50K and guess what they live near Hanover and Clinton.

 

[shandeezy7]

This article provides a nice perspective from an "outsider." I believe he may be from the Rochester area.

Syracuse Is Looking Good

 

[shandeezy7]

And from the same site, a look back on a favorite board topic:

OnTrack Syracuse: An Odd Transit Experiment That Almost Worked

 

[TexanMark]

ONTrack would have been huge this year. It would really help the parking situation. Sigh

 

[reedny]

That's a nicely written article, and a crying shame that OnTrack wasn't properly funded and supported. It's exactly the kind of seeding that local and state government should be doing ... instead of handing out sweetheart tax deals to corporations and shady mall owners.

 

[shandeezy7]

That's a nicely written article, and a crying shame that OnTrack wasn't properly funded and supported. It's exactly the kind of seeding that local and state government should be doing ... instead of handing out sweetheart tax deals to corporations and shady mall owners.

I think he's right that if you tried it 5 years ago instead of 25, perhaps it would have gotten the funding and attention that it needed, especially considering the explosion in downtown living coupled with the ever-decreasing number of parking spaces on the Hill, as Mark alluded to.

 

[reedny]

This article provides a nice perspective from an "outsider." I believe he may be from the Rochester area.

Syracuse Is Looking Good

It's just due respect ... Syracuse downtown looks great. Rochester has also seen a return of upscale residential units. There are some great areas on the East side with the cultural district and park avenue. But we haven't been able to crack the downtown code like Syracuse has.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think he's right that if you tried it 5 years ago instead of 25, perhaps it would have gotten the funding and attention that it needed, especially considering the explosion in downtown living coupled with the ever-decreasing number of parking spaces on the Hill, as Mark alluded to.

Maybe ... they still would need a willing railroad partner.

(also from the article: "The signs still hang in the abandoned Armory Square OnTrack station" isn't accurate. The station is now occupied office space.)

 

[shandeezy7]

Maybe ... they still would need a willing railroad partner.

(also from the article: "The signs still hang in the abandoned Armory Square OnTrack station" isn't accurate. The station is now occupied office space.)

I think he may have meant platform, instead of station. Aren't the signs still hanging on the platform there?

 

[KellySyracuse]

this is big news

Syracuse seizes ruined Developmental Center and 47 acres of land for back taxes

"SYRACUSE, N.Y. -- The city of Syracuse has seized a massive, dilapidated property on the Near West Side that was formerly home to the Syracuse Developmental Center.

The city recorded two tax deeds with the Onondaga County clerk’s office to take title of the property at 800 S. Wilbur Ave. this morning, according to Director of City Initiatives Greg Loh. Those deeds include the 628,808 square-foot building and 47 acres of land."

 

[Cheriehoop]

this is big news

Syracuse seizes ruined Developmental Center and 47 acres of land for back taxes

"SYRACUSE, N.Y. -- The city of Syracuse has seized a massive, dilapidated property on the Near West Side that was formerly home to the Syracuse Developmental Center.

The city recorded two tax deeds with the Onondaga County clerk’s office to take title of the property at 800 S. Wilbur Ave. this morning, according to Director of City Initiatives Greg Loh. Those deeds include the 628,808 square-foot building and 47 acres of land."

It’s too bad that property has been abandoned so long. It has some beautiful grounds attached to it, the zoo is right behind it that had even included baseball fields etc. The buildings if utilized right away could have been converted easily but after all these years I imagine they probably have to be demolished or a massive renovation job. Very desirable property.

 

[KellySyracuse]

It’s too bad that property has been abandoned so long. It has some beautiful grounds attached to it, the zoo is right behind it that had even included baseball fields etc. The buildings if utilized right away could have been converted easily but after all these years I imagine they probably have to be demolished or a massive renovation job. Very desirable property.

I agree that the buildings will likely be razed. I can't recall ever seeing this property, imagine what they can do with 47 acres of open land in the city.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I agree that the buildings will likely be razed. I can't recall ever seeing this property, imagine what they can do with 47 acres of open land in the city.

it’s beautiful with rolling hills behind it which backs up to the zoo and Burnet Park property.

 

[shandeezy7]

this is big news

Syracuse seizes ruined Developmental Center and 47 acres of land for back taxes

"SYRACUSE, N.Y. -- The city of Syracuse has seized a massive, dilapidated property on the Near West Side that was formerly home to the Syracuse Developmental Center.

The city recorded two tax deeds with the Onondaga County clerk’s office to take title of the property at 800 S. Wilbur Ave. this morning, according to Director of City Initiatives Greg Loh. Those deeds include the 628,808 square-foot building and 47 acres of land."

Was this one of the properties caught up in that huge overseas real estate scam, or am I thinking of somewhere else? It's unfortunate that the old State School was raised in the 80's and replaced with the pile of crap that's there now. It could have been a real asset had it been redeveloped/re-purposed.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Was this one of the properties caught up in that huge overseas real estate scam, or am I thinking of somewhere else? It's unfortunate that the old State School was raised in the 80's and replaced with the pile of crap that's there now. It could have been a real asset had it been redeveloped/re-purposed.

View attachment 168832

same property, also connected to Felix Sater at one point I believe