Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[Trueblue25]

But hasn't genocide always been considered bad? Weren't cavemen probably also against it?

There’s literally no way to confirm the second question as their relationship with existence was different than ours. Of course genocide’s bad. So is racism, anti semitism and all other forms of societal sin. Im not saying that history justifies these occurrences. Im more saying that humanity’s advancement has always marched hand in hand with consequence, and part of being a human is learning from it and applying it to the future. It’s a worthwhile and difficult conversation. I suppose where my stand, or where I’d start being like “hey lets slow down”, is the defacing or removal of statues of say Winston Churchill or Theodore Roosevelt because through today’s perspective they were white supremacists.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The pizzeria uno of rt 31 came down this week. Will be the new home of chik fil a

Lucky you.

Dewitt gets rejected again.

 

[OttoMets]

Lucky you.

Dewitt gets rejected again.

Hang tight, OX. Fayetteville's on deck.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Its being moved to a private location. It’d be nice if it were replaced by a more appropriate ode to Italian American contributions to Central New York. However, who knows which way the wind will blow on this one.

according to Walsh that's what they plan to do:

"This space should be both a tribute to Italian Americans and a place of healing at which we celebrate our shared accomplishments,” Walsh said in a statement. “This decision is based on the fact that we can honor our Italian American community without focusing on a statue that has become the source of division over decades and overshadowed the original intent of the monument.”

Walsh will appoint a commission to design the changes to the circle and propose a new name.
...
In addition to the statue’s removal, the heads of Indigenous peoples of the Plains and the bas relief plaques at Columbus Circle will also be removed and relocated to a private site."

 

[rrlbees]

Lucky you.

Dewitt gets rejected again.

Rumor is the area will eventually have 5.

 

[orangezen]

Columbus had nothing to do with Syracuse and CNY . He explored for Spain and was responsible for genocide of native tribes. We should celebrate our indigenous history. The statue can go to the Knights of Columbus. Though they could pick a better choice to celebrate Italian heritage.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Columbus had nothing to do with Syracuse and CNY . He explored for Spain and was responsible for genocide of native tribes. We should celebrate our indigenous history. The statue can go to the Knights of Columbus. Though they could pick a better choice to celebrate Italian heritage.

Put up something recognizing Syracuse in Sicily - where the city’s name came from not a specific person. Maybe there’s an interesting back story behind why Syracuse was given the name.

 

[Trueblue25]

put up whatever Italian American’s in CNY agree is an appropriate replacement.

 

[orangezen]

Put up something recognizing Syracuse in Sicily - where the city’s name came from not a specific person. Maybe there’s an interesting back story behind why Syracuse was given the name.

they could commemorate this ship Syracusia - Wikipedia

 

[KellySyracuse]

Well, lawyers are involved now. No fair claims Pirro, the deck was stacked against them

Italian-American group explores legal action to halt removal of Syracuse’s Columbus statue

Bob Gardino said the Italian community has been betrayed by City Hall

www.syracuse.com

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- A group of Italian-Americans is exploring legal action to prevent Mayor Ben Walsh from removing the Columbus statue from its prominent location downtown.

The Columbus Monument Corp. has retained an attorney and will attempt to preserve the statue at its current location, according to Bob Gardino, the organization’s secretary.

Former Onondaga County Executive Nick Pirro said the decision to remove the statue is more about politics than history. He said Columbus is often blamed for atrocities of others after he first sailed to the Americas.

...

Pirro is part of the Columbus Monument Corporation and was also a member of the action group appointed by Walsh to discuss the future of the statue. He said the action group didn’t give fair consideration to proposed compromises that would have kept the statue where it is while still honoring Native Americans.

“Right from the beginning we said it was a stacked committee, and it was,” Pirro said. “It was clear the decision was made long before we even started."

 

[bevosu]

He enslaved and mutilated Indigenous peoples

When Columbus first set foot on Hispaniola, he encountered a population of Indigenous peoples called the Taino. A friendly group, they willingly traded jewelry, animals, and supplies with the sailors. “They were very well built, with very handsome bodies and very good faces,” Columbus wrote in his diary. “They do not carry arms or know them...They should be good servants.” The Indigenous peoples were soon forced into slavery, and punished with the loss of a limb or death if they did not collect enough gold (a portion of which Columbus was allowed to keep for himself). Between the European’s brutal treatment and their infectious diseases, within decades, the Taino population was decimated.
He was arrested by the Spanish Government

In 1499, the Spanish monarchs got wind of the mistreatment of Spanish colonists in Hispaniola, including the flogging and executions without trial. Columbus, who was governor of the territory, was arrested, chained up, and brought back to Spain. Although some of the charges may have been manufactured by his political enemies, Columbus admitted to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella that many of the accusations were true. Columbus was stripped of his title as governor.

Was Christopher Columbus a Hero or Villain?

 

[KellySyracuse]

He enslaved and mutilated Indigenous peoples

When Columbus first set foot on Hispaniola, he encountered a population of Indigenous peoples called the Taino. A friendly group, they willingly traded jewelry, animals, and supplies with the sailors. “They were very well built, with very handsome bodies and very good faces,” Columbus wrote in his diary. “They do not carry arms or know them...They should be good servants.” The Indigenous peoples were soon forced into slavery, and punished with the loss of a limb or death if they did not collect enough gold (a portion of which Columbus was allowed to keep for himself). Between the European’s brutal treatment and their infectious diseases, within decades, the Taino population was decimated.
He was arrested by the Spanish Government

In 1499, the Spanish monarchs got wind of the mistreatment of Spanish colonists in Hispaniola, including the flogging and executions without trial. Columbus, who was governor of the territory, was arrested, chained up, and brought back to Spain. Although some of the charges may have been manufactured by his political enemies, Columbus admitted to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella that many of the accusations were true. Columbus was stripped of his title as governor.

Was Christopher Columbus a Hero or Villain?

exactly. Thanks for posting that reminder

 

[oldpinepoint]

Rumor is the area will eventually have 5.

Fayetteville location will
Be next to key bank off of rt5

 

[oldpinepoint]

I'm going with Sinatra Circle.

These guys!

 

[JeffCuse]

I’m an italian American.
Take down the statue. I don’t care. If it bothers other people that do care, take it down. I don’t need it to have pride in who I am and where I came from.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

That is ridiculous. I mean, aren't we worried that this could lead to a slippery slope of suddenly removing the statues of ALL explorers who were responsible for genocide? Where would that leave us as a society?

Don’t you dare come after my Vasco de Gama statue!

 

[orangezen]

Leonardo Da Vinci

 

[OttoMets]

Well, lawyers are involved now. No fair claims Pirro, the deck was stacked against them

Italian-American group explores legal action to halt removal of Syracuse’s Columbus statue

Bob Gardino said the Italian community has been betrayed by City Hall

www.syracuse.com

"Syracuse, N.Y. -- A group of Italian-Americans is exploring legal action to prevent Mayor Ben Walsh from removing the Columbus statue from its prominent location downtown.

The Columbus Monument Corp. has retained an attorney and will attempt to preserve the statue at its current location, according to Bob Gardino, the organization’s secretary.

Former Onondaga County Executive Nick Pirro said the decision to remove the statue is more about politics than history. He said Columbus is often blamed for atrocities of others after he first sailed to the Americas.

...

Pirro is part of the Columbus Monument Corporation and was also a member of the action group appointed by Walsh to discuss the future of the statue. He said the action group didn’t give fair consideration to proposed compromises that would have kept the statue where it is while still honoring Native Americans.

“Right from the beginning we said it was a stacked committee, and it was,” Pirro said. “It was clear the decision was made long before we even started."

What a bunch of losers.

If push came to shove, I'd favor keeping the statue as is. But those old bastards are the worst.

 

[IthacaMatt]

So while one offensive symbol comes down, another goes up?

Edit: I'm pretty indifferent on the Columbus thing, but screw Chik Fil A.

The whole Columbus Day celebration was started around the time of WWI, when Italian immigrants were subject to some awful racism, like the Irish before them in the middle 1800s. Columbus Day was intended (especially after their service in The Great War) to make them feel more included and integrated into American society. Columbus Day was originally a day to expand the notion of our nation's Great Melting Pot.

Now, we are in a different place as a society, 100 years later. Native people deserve respect, especially here in CNY, where the Haudenosaunee were the creators of the First Democracy in America - more inclusive, in fact, than what the White Man came up with in our own Constitution. For example - women had not only "equal" rights, they were the heads of all the families. There was no favoritism among the Five Nations (later Six) - no "3/5's of a person" stuff. They were all equal in the eyes of the Creator.

I hope the statue is one of Hiawatha. If you've never gone up to the second floor of the State Courthouse, directly across from Columbus Circle, there are some magnificent murals of Hiawatha, the French priests and explorers meeting the Onondaga and our local history "founding story". It would be a great tribute.

 

[shandeezy7]

The whole Columbus Day celebration was started around the time of WWI, when Italian immigrants were subject to some awful racism, like the Irish before them in the middle 1800s. Columbus Day was intended (especially after their service in The Great War) to make them feel more included and integrated into American society. Columbus Day was originally a day to expand the notion of our nation's Great Melting Pot.

Now, we are in a different place as a society, 100 years later. Native people deserve respect, especially here in CNY, where the Haudenosaunee were the creators of the First Democracy in America - more inclusive, in fact, than what the White Man came up with in our own Constitution. For example - women had not only "equal" rights, they were the heads of all the families. There was no favoritism among the Five Nations (later Six) - no "3/5's of a person" stuff. They were all equal in the eyes of the Creator.

I hope the statue is one of Hiawatha. If you've never gone up to the second floor of the State Courthouse, directly across from Columbus Circle, there are some magnificent murals of Hiawatha, the French priests and explorers meeting the Onondaga and our local history "founding story". It would be a great tribute.

I thought about something featuring Simon Le Moyne and the Onondaga, but I suppose that doesn't stick with the theme of honoring Italian Americans.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I thought about something featuring Simon Le Moyne and the Onondaga, but I suppose that doesn't stick with the theme of honoring Italian Americans.

I think trying to still keep the "Italian Theme" with the replacement statue is a bad idea. I get it politically, but aesthetically and in terms of posterity, it's better for a clean break.

Another reason to advocate for Hiawatha, in particular. It's a story about The Original Democracy, in a purer state than we have today. It was started right here in Central New York, just like so much other important history - the Women's Movement, the Underground Railroad, the salt industry, the Erie Canal - we were The Road West for the settlement of the frontier for 50 years, until the railroads came through.

There is so much history in CNY. Whatever the replacement tribute is, it should be about CNY, not generic "Italian-ness". I'm sure we could find some important people of Italian descent in Syracuse history, if someone wants to research it.

 

[shandeezy7]

Old Penfield Manufacturing building will be redeveloped; will that house on the roof stay?

The $50 million project would turn the former Moyer carriage and auto factory into a mixed-use development.

www.syracuse.com

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

put up whatever Italian American’s in CNY agree is an appropriate replacement.

What if they just left everything as is, but everyone simply agrees that it's all a tribute to this guy?

Chris Columbus

 

[shandeezy7]

Equitable to move 700 jobs from downtown to Syracuse Inner Harbor

The insurance company will occupy a $74 million office building to be built at the harbor.

www.syracuse.com

 

[TexanMark]

Equitable to move 700 jobs from downtown to Syracuse Inner Harbor

The insurance company will occupy a $74 million office building to be built at the harbor.

www.syracuse.com

Hmmm great news for the Inner Harbor but bad news for downtown.

I wonder if the Tower downtown will be able to find a new tenant or maybe build out apartments?