Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion | Page 174 | Syracusefan.com

Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

TexanMark said:
There is another big hotel that will be announced soon. Sorry, can't give details other than it isn't within the city limits.
Expand...
There are a couple planned for clay around the great northern area.
 
sutomcat said:
Turning Stone starts new phase of massive $370 million expansion. Includes a 258 room hotel.

I assume it will be close enough to Syracuse to count when SU bids to host future NCAA mens women's hoops tournaments. It is 34.7 miles from Turning Stone to Syracuse (about 38 minutes driving).

This is the same distance as Spokane is from Coeur d’Alene and two Coeur d’Alene hotels were used when Spokane hosted NCAA hoops games in March of 2024.

www.syracuse.com

Turning Stone casino starts new phase of massive $370 million expansion

The project is expected to turn the property into the state largest convention resort
www.syracuse.com www.syracuse.com

I think the tower at Turning Stone has 95 rooms and could be used to host another team.

We have the Marriott downtown, which is plenty big enough (315 rooms) and nice enough to host one team. Perhaps two. Teams have been doubled up in Albany and other places. in the past. This is not preferred but has been done.

Embassy Suites in East Syracuse has 215 rooms. That makes the cut.

Embassy Suites next to DestinyUSA has 209 rooms. That makes the cut.

The Doubletree in East Syracuse has 250 rooms. That should also be fine for hosting a team.

The Aloft in the Syracuse Inner Harbor area has 134 rooms. It is almost new and is almost surely big enough and nice enough to host a team.

The Courtyard downtown has 102 rooms. I would think it is big enough to host a basketball team but again, could be wrong.

The Parkview Hotel on E Genesee has 83 rooms and is rated as first class for accomodations. I would think it is good to host a team.

The Best Western downtown should be okay quality wise but only has 68 rooms. I would think for basketball, that is plenty but I could be wrong. At this point, we have to be getting close to hotels that are too small to host.

Not sure what the cut off point is. If it is 200, we only have 4 right now. Thinking about it more, I guess when you factor in players, coaches, staff, families, fans and the press, you probably need at least 100 to host a team and 200 might even be a bare minimum.

So there is work to be done.
Expand...

If I'm not mistaken -- and I could definitely be mistaken on this one -- NCAA wants host hotels to be full-service. That'd scratch most of those downtown locations and the Aloft as well. But there are some in the pipeline.
 
xc84 said:
This is pretty cool. It's a beautiful property and hopefully is stays natural and trails are developed within it. I used to occasionally run through there in the 80s and it is a very nice/natural park-like area.

www.syracuse.com

Son of Destiny USA developer sells picturesque White Lake site in DeWitt for millions

The buyer is staying quiet on its plans for the nearly 500-acre property popular for its nature trails.
www.syracuse.com www.syracuse.com
Expand...
My mother used to talk about going from Syracuse to Snooks Pond with friends in the late 40’s,50’s etc to swim and how sad it wasn’t open anymore for people and taken over by just one family.
 
Cheriehoop said:
Yet we’re going to divert even more car traffic on Syracuse streets with the Rte 81 project. :rolleyes:
cnycentral.com

Syracuse-area drivers lose nearly $1,400 a year due to harsh roads, report finds

The average driver in Syracuse spends nearly $1,400 as a result of driving on the city's harsh roads.
cnycentral.com cnycentral.com
Expand...
Per the study, Syracuse costs are actually the lowest of NY cities.
roads.jpg
 
SU buys Marshall st.

Syracuse University has bought out another retail leasing portfolio along Marshall Street's storied 100 block — this time 2 adjoining parcels, 7 or 8 storefronts, and 138 feet in nostalgia-infused commercial frontage.

The price: $14.2 million, which is nearly 5.7 times the combined full market valuations currently ascribed to the real estate by the city Assessment Department.

The info flows from Onondaga County Clerk's Office index entries against recordings made late in the day on Monday, March 3, 2025. The property descriptions are not yet filled in. And the deed scans are likely not yet appended for remote consultation (a $5 guest user charge). But the parties match up with a big transaction that's been widely rumored since about Christmastime 2024.

The selling entities are two LLC's and a trust, but the landlording business has long been understood as handled by aging Downtown lawyer Hugh C. Gregg II on behalf of himself and other family members.

A cursory look at the land records suggests the Gregg Family has been in an ownership position along M Street since December 1945, when the father — Hugh Carleton Gregg (Senior), Ph.D., an SU administrator — bought the Shattuck Realty Corporation's building.

That today falls within the Gregg Family's westerly holding officially listed as simply 153 Marshall. It has been assessed lately for about $1.183 million — if converted to full market value using the state's citywide statistical average for 2025.

The parcel carries about 80 feet of street frontage, and the city's records claim it traces to construction in two sections, both dating from 1920.

Google and a recent stroll suggest it was or is doing business through five storefronts: Taste of Asia (Thai & Vietnamese Cuisine) at 143; formerly Some Girls Boutique or CPR Cell Phone Repair at 145; Royal Indian Grill at 147; Mediterranean Combo at 149; and Manny's (Quality SU Clothing Since 1949) at 151.

The property is probably still most vividly remembered for leasing its leftmost section to Cosmo's (1963-2014), a celebrated pizza shop and diner combo.

The Gregg Family's easterly holding is on city records as 159-163 Marshall. It has been assessed recently for $1.322 million, if converted to the latest full market value.

The parcel carries about 58 feet of street frontage, and the city's records trace it to two sections, both reputedly dating from 1980.

However, there is still findable a contrary news clipping from March 1987 by young Syracuse Newspapers journalist Don Cazentre — indicating that Gregg II had by then torn down the prior structure (causing a surplus of rats to congregate in the hole), and there were delays in building things back.

The property has been doing business lately through the basement-level Lucy Blu (Island Bar & Club) and the street-level Student Choice Market (or Foods) at 161, and Bleu Monkey Cafe (Sushi Restaurant) at 163.
 
Part 2

Along Marshall and a nearby commercial stretch of South Crouse, the university's recent high-dollar buying spree can be traced back as beginning in June and July of 2021 — partly under its for-profit country club subsidiary, Drumlins Inc., and partly under SU's name directly.

SU has spent $106.85 million on Marshall and South Crouse real estate since that time period. The total clocks in at $110.85 million if you run the starting point back to July 1998, when the university paid $4 million for landlord rights over Marshall Square Mall. (Though, of course, any dollars in 2025 are significantly inflated from those dollars in 1998.)

Buyouts along Marshall Street's frontage have so far fallen into something of a sawtooth pattern, which some interpret as blocking potential developer-style consolidations inspired by perceived market demand for more modern, more vertical, and more productive commercial and mixed-use spaces.

(Such as the surprise accomplished by the developer sector in creating The Marshall, a tax-break-subsidized mixed-use big box, later bought out by SU, and in 2024 recategorized as a dorm now doing business as Milton Hall. The asset is now scheduled to move to 95 percent property tax free as of 2025.)

As time goes by, the spatial ownership complexity will mean there's really only one potential buyer left — occasionally sending out functionaries to desultorily kick the tires on the scene of whatever might next be available. That's likely to suppress prices achieved by all holdouts during the district's remaining transition.

SU's deal-making raises questions about the whether the local economy's pedestrian- and visitor-friendly "collegetown district" will continue to fade, get somehow revitalized, or be gradually converted altogether into just another campus zone. To the extent that Syracuse lays claim to a tourism industry, Marshall Street is (or was) an important locale for visitors spending money, beyond meeting strong retail demand on a daily basis from staff and students.

SU's moves also pose implications for further shrinkage of the city's tax base. The well-known local educational non-profit has a knack for gradually converting taxable spaces into arguably-mission-relevant uses, and soon thereafter getting with the City Assessor behind the scenes on a quiet quest for partial or whole exemptions.

Needless to say, there's no press release or story in the paper when this sort of thing happens, even though millions of dollars are on the line. Instead, whatever discount is achieved by Big Ed (or, sometimes, by Big Med) gets obscurely redistributed into slightly bigger bills for non-exempt property owners, evermore.

The issue overlaps an already proven legal gray area — the question of campus buildings turning up with partial internal commercial activity theoretically shielded from property taxation, partly due to SU's status as a touchy community heavyweight with teams of lawyers always at the ready.

Witness the still-largely-unreported, still-unresolved, and now-three-year-old dispute in which City Hall and SU wound up locked in ultimately *sealed* litigation — over the taxability of shopping-mall-type commercial amenities, long ringing up sales within Schine Student Center.

www.facebook.com

Greater Westcott Nation | [Update Nov. 18: Recently filed legal paperwork confirms City Hall has surrendered over taxing a small part of SU's Veterans Center — but wishes to ... | Facebook

[Update Nov. 18: Recently filed legal paperwork confirms City Hall has surrendered over taxing a small part of SU's Veterans Center — but wishes to keep alive the taxing question over a small part of...
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

www.facebook.com

Greater Westcott Nation | Sealed! | Facebook

Sealed! The Town / Gown Conflict that dares not speak its name... Syracuse University vs. City of Syracuse... Lawyers for the well-known educational non-profit appear to have quietly re-initiated...
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
 
Leaving aside commercial holdings fronting on South Crouse or East Adams, only four properties along Marshall Street's 100 block still remain vested in commercial-sector hands, though the first two of these (as listed here) have been intermittently listed for sale in recent time periods:

• The Jacobs Family at 113 and 123.

• Liquor Hill LLC at 137 — https://www.crexi.com/properties/1490925/new-york-syracuse-university-development-site

• The Potamianos Family at 167-169.

• The Mavrikidis Family at 726 University and Marshall.
 
OburgOrange said:
SU buys Marshall st.

Syracuse University has bought out another retail leasing portfolio along Marshall Street's storied 100 block — this time 2 adjoining parcels, 7 or 8 storefronts, and 138 feet in nostalgia-infused commercial frontage.

The price: $14.2 million, which is nearly 5.7 times the combined full market valuations currently ascribed to the real estate by the city Assessment Department.

The info flows from Onondaga County Clerk's Office index entries against recordings made late in the day on Monday, March 3, 2025. The property descriptions are not yet filled in. And the deed scans are likely not yet appended for remote consultation (a $5 guest user charge). But the parties match up with a big transaction that's been widely rumored since about Christmastime 2024.

The selling entities are two LLC's and a trust, but the landlording business has long been understood as handled by aging Downtown lawyer Hugh C. Gregg II on behalf of himself and other family members.

A cursory look at the land records suggests the Gregg Family has been in an ownership position along M Street since December 1945, when the father — Hugh Carleton Gregg (Senior), Ph.D., an SU administrator — bought the Shattuck Realty Corporation's building.

That today falls within the Gregg Family's westerly holding officially listed as simply 153 Marshall. It has been assessed lately for about $1.183 million — if converted to full market value using the state's citywide statistical average for 2025.

The parcel carries about 80 feet of street frontage, and the city's records claim it traces to construction in two sections, both dating from 1920.

Google and a recent stroll suggest it was or is doing business through five storefronts: Taste of Asia (Thai & Vietnamese Cuisine) at 143; formerly Some Girls Boutique or CPR Cell Phone Repair at 145; Royal Indian Grill at 147; Mediterranean Combo at 149; and Manny's (Quality SU Clothing Since 1949) at 151.

The property is probably still most vividly remembered for leasing its leftmost section to Cosmo's (1963-2014), a celebrated pizza shop and diner combo.

The Gregg Family's easterly holding is on city records as 159-163 Marshall. It has been assessed recently for $1.322 million, if converted to the latest full market value.

The parcel carries about 58 feet of street frontage, and the city's records trace it to two sections, both reputedly dating from 1980.

However, there is still findable a contrary news clipping from March 1987 by young Syracuse Newspapers journalist Don Cazentre — indicating that Gregg II had by then torn down the prior structure (causing a surplus of rats to congregate in the hole), and there were delays in building things back.

The property has been doing business lately through the basement-level Lucy Blu (Island Bar & Club) and the street-level Student Choice Market (or Foods) at 161, and Bleu Monkey Cafe (Sushi Restaurant) at 163.
Expand...

They still need to get rid of Dave Jacobs, if that hasn't already been done to get control of the block.

I did business with Gregg about 10 years ago.
He used to encourage defaults and would try to get people to bid to keep the lease rights under the existing lease of the tenant he was forcing out. I did not find him to be very reputable. His son is nice, though.
 
Last edited:
sutomcat said:
The end is near. It will be interesting how this ends. I hope the new owner takes care of the facility.

www.syracuse.com

Destiny USA, New York’s largest mall, defaults on $300 million mortgage

Pyramid Cos. failed to extend the loan's maturity date, lender could foreclose.
www.syracuse.com www.syracuse.com
Expand...
Clickbait by the PS. They default every other year. Banks don’t want it. Eventually someone else will take over and hopefully start to repurpose the empty space.

Housing and medical offices would fit nicely where those department stores once stood.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Capt. Tuttle
    • Like
    • Love
Met Luke Carney today
Replies
18
Views
3K
bigmike
bigmike
HtownOrange
    • Like
    • Haha
Cutting Rutgers' funding, an Odd perspective on the Jersey Governor race
Replies
15
Views
2K
orangefog
orangefog
M
    • Like
SU Football NIL NASCAR Drive In
Replies
0
Views
329
meierscreek
M

Forum statistics

Threads
173,937
Messages
5,121,928
Members
6,080
Latest member
sar7779

Share this page

Online statistics

Members online
231
Guests online
992
Total visitors
1,223
Totals may include hidden visitors.
Top Bottom