Did not believe the obvious

[jgeorge322]

Why do you caveat our win against wake saying it was in ot? How does ot further your point? Wake was pretty good last year if i recall. Werent they playing for a big bowl game if they won?

pitt game was pretty close if i recall and we lost it on a questionable call/review.

 

[OrangeDW]

There are 130 FBS schools. Even giving our 10 and 3 year in 2018 I think it’s safe to say we are somewhere between 100 and 130 for overall record in Dino’s tenor to this point. That’s just a safe guess without actually crunching the numbers. It wouldn’t surprise me if we were in the bottom 15 teams win percentage wise. That coupled with the swan dive trajectory of the program since 2018 and no bottom in sight its pretty easy to see why the pitchforks are coming out and torches are being lit. Not many P5 fan bases would be ready to burn it down.

We always suck though. I would’ve thought the 10 win season(best in 17 years) would’ve bought some good will for longer than a year and a half.

 

[nzm136]

Disagree, 6-6, 7-5 will never get him fired. I just don't see it but that is a HUGE mountain to climb at this point. I know nobody wants to hear it but the injuries and playing all this youth are the biggest issue right now.

Huh? What are you disagreeing with?

6-6 and 7-5 won’t get him fired, but 6-6 won’t get him off the hot seat, either.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

We always suck though. I would’ve thought the 10 win season(best in 17 years) would’ve bought some good will for longer than a year and a half.

I think a 6-6 or 7-5 type year would have been fine, brought the goodwill or at least some but it's kind of been a free fall since then. I certainly understand the lack of goodwill. The issue is 18 months ago he was a coach that most were in fear of losing to a bigger program and now here we are. Amazing how things change. The bed was made and now the program has to lay in it. Tough times for sure

 

[Newhouser]

I don’t think we underachieved in any of those years, personally. I think we overachieved in 2018 though.

We can’t recruit. Ever. It is what it is.

So what is your cut off for change? And if we can't ever recruit we should join the Patriot League. We have opted in to participate in the realm of big time college football, and if you commit to something like this you have to commit to winning. The we are good enough and let's just take the $ attitude is horrendous and more embarrassing than Saturday's performance. SU takes the money - it is their responsibility to put the best product they can on the filed every year and if this is the best product we can field - we need to reassess.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Huh? What are you disagreeing with?

6-6 and 7-5 won’t get him fired, but 6-6 won’t get him off the hot seat, either.

I think two bowl games in a row 2021 and 2022 and the seat isn't that hot nor should it be, you can build off two years in of back to back bowls

 

[nzm136]

I think two bowl games in a row 2021 and 2022 and the seat isn't that hot nor should it be

How does that disagree with “he needs to go bowling in ‘21 and then follow it up with ‘22?”

EDIT: I said “great” answer in 2022. I meant in terms of being able to go bowling despite replacing a QB, not “great” as in winning 10 games or anything. Maybe I wasn't clear.

 

[Newhouser]

With this record I don’t want to hear Ever again that the reason Dino would leave is because of lack of fan support. I mean, really?

The school has made huge investments in the program and given Dino pretty much everything he has asked for. And in year 5 we have this record. Time to,produce

The fans have outperformed Dino and the team by a mile over the last few years.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Why do you caveat our win against wake saying it was in ot? How does ot further your point? Wake was pretty good last year if i recall. Werent they playing for a big bowl game if they won?

pitt game was pretty close if i recall and we lost it on a questionable call/review.

The point is we won by the skin of our teeth against a mediocre team. One bounce of the ball the other way and we lose that game. The Pitt game was 24-6 at the half and 27-13 until we scored with 2:45 left in the game. if you think that is close I will agree to disagree.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

How does that disagree with “he needs to go bowling in ‘21 and then follow it up with ‘22?”

You said he better have a great answer for 2022 as well. 6-6 isn't a great answer, but will be good enough. IMO a great answer is 8 -9 wins. Semantics maybe

 

[Finwad32]

I’m certainly willing to allow 2021 to be the litmus year against peer ACC opponents.

there are legitimate hurdles this year that I’m empathetic to.

I firmly believe we have young pieces that can grow.

But, I need to see at the very least a disciplined team that’s playing football. You can control that as a coach.

There are obvious concerns, but I do want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[nzm136]

You said he better have a great answer for 2022 as well. 6-6 isn't a great answer, but will be good enough. IMO a great answer is 8 -9 wins. Semantics maybe

It depends if you’re going 6-6 with a brand new QB. Given SU’s history over the last 15 years, going 6-6 with roster turnover is “great” in my eyes.

(Best case scenario is TD coming back next year, which I think is the only way we get to 6+. But he will have graduated by 2022, no matter what, which necessitates a changing of the guard that season - assuming that season only comes for Dino if TD returns next year.)

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I’m certainly willing to allow 2021 to be the litmus year against peer ACC opponents.

there are legitimate hurdles this year that I’m empathetic to.

I firmly believe we have young pieces that can grow.

But, I need to see at the very least a disciplined team that’s playing football. You can control that as a coach.

There are obvious concerns, but I do want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah and due to finances I don't think there is much a of a choice.

 

[Bayside44]

Yeah and due to finances I don't think there is much a of a choice.

If the guy is competing for bowls and get a season where they can set up a run every now and again that's it. Seat is cold as a frozen lake.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

If the guy is competing for bowls and get a season where they can set up a run every now and again that's it. Seat is cold as a frozen lake.

That's the job description 100%. Minor bowls and the occasional 2018

 

[SU94]

What we're seeing now is symptoms of Dino turning in poor recruiting classes in year's 1 and 2 or his tenure (classes of 2016 and '17). There are a few hits in there, but way way way too few. By my count, that's only 7 above grade ACC starters in two classes. To be fair, Dino only had 6-7 weeks to pull together the 2016 Class.

And I think he overestimated his own system in the early stages of his tenure. And underestimated the middle-range programs of the ACC (NCSU, Pitt, BC, etc.)

I also think that we need to take a good hard look at greater redshirting numbers for this program (in non COVID years). But that is another topic for another thread.

2016 Hits
Neal (inherited recruit)
Kendall Coleman

2016 Whiffs
(too many to list)
Devin Butler
Michael Clark
Devon Clarke
Liam O'Sullivan
Carl Jones

There are some solid ACC contributors in there too: Black, M.Williams, Servais, Foster, Scoop Bradshaw

2017 Hits
Iffy
Szymt
Alton Robinson
Dakota Davis
K.Jonathan

2017 Whiffs
Morton
Stringer
Trotter
Justin Ellis
RTB
M.Pierre
Fegan
Grosvenor

2017 ACC Contributors: Hacket, Berry, N.Johnson

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You said he better have a great answer for 2022 as well. 6-6 isn't a great answer, but will be good enough. IMO a great answer is 8 -9 wins. Semantics maybe

IMO 5-7 could be good enough depending on how the season played out. We need to show improvement on D, which I think will happen. We have a new system and we are playing a bunch of young guys. The O needs to show functionality. We have really struggled to run the ball all five years. Our passing game has been HR or nothing. We need to show that we can sustain drives. If the schedule remains as planed we need the follwing to happen:

Ohio needs to be a win to start the season.

At home we expect Albany to be a win and Clemson to be a loss.

The rest of the games anything less than 3-2 is totally unacceptable. And even 3-2 is a bit worrisome. If we can't go 3-2 at home against Rutgers, Liberty, BC, Pitt, and Wake then there is zero justification for Dino keeping his job.

So now we are at 5-3 with out road games left. We should be able to beat one of the these teams (Florida State, Louisville, NC State, VA Tech), but they are road games. So as long as we are competitive, I would would be fine with a 5-7 season and heading in the right direct. However if that 5-7 season is like last year's 5-7 mess, I would want Dino gone.

 

[Bayside44]

What we're seeing now is symptoms of Dino turning in poor recruiting classes in year's 1 and 2 or his tenure (classes of 2016 and '17). There are a few hits in there, but way way way too few. By my count, that's only 7 above grade ACC starters in two classes. To be fair, Dino only had 6-7 weeks to pull together the 2016 Class.

And I think he overestimated his own system in the early stages of his tenure. And underestimated the middle-range programs of the ACC (NCSU, Pitt, BC, etc.)

I also think that we need to take a good hard look at greater redshirting numbers for this program (in non COVID years). But that is another topic for another thread.

2016 Hits
Neal (inherited recruit)
Kendall Coleman

2016 Whiffs
(too many to list)
Devin Butler
Michael Clark
Devon Clarke
Liam O'Sullivan
Carl Jones

There are some solid ACC contributors in there too: Black, M.Williams, Servais, Foster, Scoop Bradshaw

2017 Hits
Iffy
Szymt
Alton Robinson
Dakota Davis
K.Jonathan

2017 Whiffs
Morton
Stringer
Trotter
Justin Ellis
RTB
M.Pierre
Fegan
Grosvenor

2017 ACC Contributors: Hacket, Berry, N.Johnson

Good post. And Ed Hendrix was supposed to be a horse. Hopefully there is still time there, but right now the guy has a negative WAR just for pregame warmups.

 

[DPCuse]

I’m willing to give Babers a pass this year but with two caveats. I want to see what this team looks like next year with a healthy O Line. I want to see that we can sustain drives and move the chains. And I want to see if he can hold on to this recruiting class which I think is solid. If both of those fail, then I’d start looking around.

 

[Alsacs]

Dino throws in the towel and subs in a freshman, so everyone can complain that Dino quit on the team again ?

Throwing in the towel down 35-14 in the fourth quarter when your defense has been torched the entire game on the ground and your offense has sucked is completely different than not calling timeouts down 2 score with 4 minutes left in a game you are just interested in ending and not losing by more.
I think you are smart enough to know that.

Dino should have given the freshman their snaps against Liberty rather than a more talented conference opponent who actually shake their confidence.

 

[Alsacs]

We always suck though. I would’ve thought the 10 win season(best in 17 years) would’ve bought some good will for longer than a year and a half.

We sucked because of terrible coaching.

We should be mediocre.
We can schedule 3 wins out of 4 nonconference games every single year.
Thus all we need to do is go 3-5 in conference games we should be able to do that way more often than not.
Last year we went 2-6 that is unacceptable.

 

[syrBossHogg]

We sucked because of terrible coaching.

We should be mediocre.
We can schedule 3 wins out of 4 nonconference games every single year.
Thus all we need to do is go 3-5 in conference games we should be able to do that way more often than not.
Last year we went 2-6 that is unacceptable.

4 ACC wins should be the goal every year. Once in a while they get a pass for only 2 wins, but 4 should be the goal IMO.

 

[Killdozer]

I’m willing to give Babers a pass this year but with two caveats. I want to see what this team looks like next year with a healthy O Line. I want to see that we can sustain drives and move the chains. And I want to see if he can hold on to this recruiting class which I think is solid. If both of those fail, then I’d start looking around.

Although, I am not sure if Dino has ever had a healthy OL. Always seem to be shuffling or "plug & play" going on with that unit

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Although, I am not sure if Dino has ever had a healthy OL. Always seem to be shuffling or "plug & play" going on with that unit

It begs the question: Why is that so often the case?

 

[Alsacs]

4 ACC wins should be the goal every year. Once in a while they get a pass for only 2 wins, but 4 should be the goal IMO.

I think 3 should be goal. As if we go 3-1 we get to 6 wins and that is enough to go bowling.

We just can’t go 2-6 as often as we do.