Did not believe the obvious

[OrangeDW]

So what is your cut off for change? And if we can't ever recruit we should join the Patriot League. We have opted in to participate in the realm of big time college football, and if you commit to something like this you have to commit to winning. The we are good enough and let's just take the $ attitude is horrendous and more embarrassing than Saturday's performance. SU takes the money - it is their responsibility to put the best product they can on the filed every year and if this is the best product we can field - we need to reassess.

So it’s either “win or go join the Patriot League”? Sorry, that’s just the rants of fans who try to simplify everything. Guess Duke, Kansas, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc. should all join the Patriot League too?

Maybe some of our fans need to move beyond the thnking of “record that is acceptable to me = coach is good. Record that isn’t what I want it to be means the coach is bad and we should fire him.”

personally I think a guy can be a good coach and have a hard time winning at Syracuse. Heck, Marrone went to the AFC title game in the NFL, and had to kill him self to go 8-5 here.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think a 6-6 or 7-5 type year would have been fine, brought the goodwill or at least some but it's kind of been a free fall since then. I certainly understand the lack of goodwill. The issue is 18 months ago he was a coach that most were in fear of losing to a bigger program and now here we are. Amazing how things change. The bed was made and now the program has to lay in it. Tough times for sure

And who is to say we won’t be 10-3 again in 18 months? The guy has already proven he can win here. Maybe we should accept that he’s a proven good coach and let him work through these tough times? Like Duke does with their coach. They don’t have good teams every year, but it seems pretty established that he’s a good coach.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I agree that Dino should get 2021, but here are additional things that concern me, to build on what others have said:

- We have no one who is able to play offensive tackle at a high level. (Servais was moved to RT and Bergeron to LT - and some have said Bergeron would better off at guard.)
- The play calling on offense, with a new OC, has somehow become more disjointed and less effective.
- There's no adjustments.
- The defense is injured and young, but is equally problematic from previous seasons despite the new scheme.

Could some of the issues on both sides of the ball be impacted by a lack of spring practice? Of course.

But for as important as Ohana / La Familia is to Babers, there seem to be cultural problems within the program that continue to cause problems. (Bad attitudes, lack of commitment / focus, etc).

 

[Alsacs]

So it’s either “win or go join the Patriot League”? Sorry, that’s just the rants of fans who try to simplify everything. Guess Duke, Kansas, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc. should all join the Patriot League too?

Maybe some of our fans need to move beyond the thnking of “record that is acceptable to me = coach is good. Record that isn’t what I want it to be means the coach is bad and we should fire him.”

personally I think a guy can be a good coach and have a hard time winning at Syracuse. Heck, Marrone went to the AFC title game in the NFL, and had to kill him self to go 8-5 here.

Marrone had an Athletic director who was spending like a drunk sailor on a Big East budget and was under heat for it.
An administration that wouldn’t authorize the Ensley Center. We didn’t get the clearance for the IPF until
We had the ACC invite and guaranteed TV money that would pay for it.

Marrone isn’t a college coach at a program like Syracuse give him a spot that recruits for itself he would prepare the talent and be competitive.

I like Dino Babers but he hasn’t impressed me as a coach. I like him for what he says and how he conducts business. The on the field in game decisions haven’t been good, the team is severely undisciplined. The game plans have been mediocre at best and we still in-game adjustments that work.
The playing call is predictable.

I am sorry but Dino hasn’t proven he is a great coach. He is good enough but now it’s year 5 results matter.
He isn’t a clown like the previous HC but he needs to show on field success.
He was given a private plane for recruiting, he has gotten budget increases for recruiting and for his staff, he has an indoor practice facility. The job isn’t like it was for even Marrone.
Give Marrone these advancements he likely would say thank you very much.
Pay for an assistant who can recruit.

 

[nzm136]

We sucked because of terrible coaching.

We should be mediocre.
We can schedule 3 wins out of 4 nonconference games every single year.
Thus all we need to do is go 3-5 in conference games we should be able to do that way more often than not.
Last year we went 2-6 that is unacceptable.

Wake is a good (but not “elite”) private school with 5,287 undergrads. They can’t pull a Stanford and offer a unique degree (in the world of BCS schools), and they are private school, so their alumni base is dispersed. They’re located in a good recruiting area, but they have 3 other in-state schools and are surrounded by 4 states, 3 of which have 2 major BCS schools in them (I’ll count UVA as “major,” but not Vandy), so they’re ~11th pick in their own state (at best).

We have 15,275 undergrads and are otherwise comparable.

We’re 3x the size. That game *should* be a very regular win (balanced out by FSU and Clemson being regular losses). Taken together, we should have 3 OOC wins (minimum) and 1 in-conference win (built in). We should also have 2 built-in losses. That sets us up for 4-2 looking down the barrel of the last 6 games. Going 3-5 in conference is really going 2-3 in my mind (which we’d really only have to do 2/3 years when we don’t play ND OOC).

I agree. Accomplishing the “shoulds” + 2 years of 2-3 and 1 year of 1-4 every 3 years doesn’t seem like it’s asking for the world.

*”Should” is a key word.

 

[Willy75]

That's the job description 100%. Minor bowls and the occasional 2018

And don’t regularly give up 600 plus yards and 50 plus pints to the other guys.

 

[Newhouser]

So it’s either “win or go join the Patriot League”? Sorry, that’s just the rants of fans who try to simplify everything. Guess Duke, Kansas, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc. should all join the Patriot League too?

Maybe some of our fans need to move beyond the thnking of “record that is acceptable to me = coach is good. Record that isn’t what I want it to be means the coach is bad and we should fire him.”

personally I think a guy can be a good coach and have a hard time winning at Syracuse. Heck, Marrone went to the AFC title game in the NFL, and had to kill him self to go 8-5 here.

so let us just stay status quo and luck into some game changing players every so often? Again I ask what is your cut off - 5 years? 7? 10?

 

[Willy75]

And don’t regularly give up 600 plus yards and 50 plus pints to the other guys.

Points.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I agree that Dino should get 2021, but here are additional things that concern me, to build on what others have said:

- We have no one who is able to play offensive tackle at a high level. (Servais was moved to RT and Bergeron to LT - and some have said Bergeron would better off at guard.)
- The play calling on offense, with a new OC, has somehow become more disjointed and less effective.
- There's no adjustments.
- The defense is injured and young, but is equally problematic from previous seasons despite the new scheme.

Could some of the issues on both sides of the ball be impacted by a lack of spring practice? Of course.

But for as important as Ohana / La Familia is to Babers, there seem to be cultural problems within the program that continue to cause problems. (Bad attitudes, lack of commitment / focus, etc).

Losing will breed that into a program for sure. His first few years we were able to get some nice wins versus some decent programs. Got some hype, etc Kids bought in and could at least get a small taste of success. After 2018 it went to their head and they continue to get punched in the mouth on a weekly basis. It's an issue for sure

 

[nzm136]

Points.

Both work. I’m not willing to surrender 50 pints to the other school, either, and giving the enemy that much beer would be a fireable offense in my eyes.

 

[TheCusian]

Huh? What are you disagreeing with?

6-6 and 7-5 won’t get him fired, but 6-6 won’t get him off the hot seat, either.

6-6 would absolutely get him off the hot seat

 

[nzm136]

6-6 would absolutely get him off the hot seat

False - There’s no way he comes back for a year 8 if he goes 6-6 in year 6 and has a poor showing in year 7, especially given the Dome upgrades and how much the school has invested in making him win vs prior coaches. 2 bowls in 7 years isn’t enough in the era of cupcake OOC schedules and bowls galore, especially if the 2/7 number is coupled with a non-positive trajectory (going bowling and then not). Participation trophies stop when you start cashing paychecks.

 

[TheCusian]

False - There’s no way he comes back for a year 8 if he goes 6-6 in year 6 and has a poor showing in year 7, especially given the Dome upgrades and how much the school has invested in making him win vs prior coaches. 2 bowls in 7 years isn’t enough in the era of cupcake OOC schedules and bowls galore, especially if the 2/7 number is coupled with a non-positive trajectory (going bowling and then not). Participation trophies stop when you start cashing paychecks.

False. Bears. Beets. Battle star Galactica.

 

[TheCusian]

False - There’s no way he comes back for a year 8 if he goes 6-6 in year 6 and has a poor showing in year 7, especially given the Dome upgrades and how much the school has invested in making him win vs prior coaches. 2 bowls in 7 years isn’t enough in the era of cupcake OOC schedules and bowls galore, especially if the 2/7 number is coupled with a non-positive trajectory (going bowling and then not). Participation trophies stop when you start cashing paychecks.

Also, if it’s unequivocally false you don’t need to make a case. But you did so

 

[Pyle]

I think there is one thing that hasn't been brought up enough but was a major factor in P's firing. It's the W...T... losses. Dino is racking them up fast. One thing the Shafer haters can't deny is that he never lost to a team he shouldn't have. No he didn't punch above his weight class but he didn't lose games he shouldn't. Whether he should have lost that Nova game is up for debate but regardless he didn't. Dino has lost to MTSU when he wasn't supposed to as well as Liberty. In addition, that MD game last year was a total you know what. Dino needs to get back to a bowl game and stop with the embarrassing loses. That's what's needed.

 

[nzm136]

Also, if it’s unequivocally false you don’t need to make a case. But you did so

I’m thorough, and you have a tendency to miss things.

 

[anomander]

Until he lost 7 in a row to close out his 3rd season, and people were calling for his head. It happened

Weren’t we devastated by injuries that year as well and that was the main reason? (Shocker right)

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Weren’t we devastated by injuries that year as well and that was the main reason? (Shocker right)

100% yes. It was pretty bad for sure.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Weren’t we devastated by injuries that year as well and that was the main reason? (Shocker right)

We were? I remember Chandler being out. Marinovich too? The rest of the team was relatively healthy no?

When you have an 11 game stretch where you lose 8 in a row vs FBS teams, beat an FBS team by one point before losing to another FBS team making it 9 out of 10, and the 1 FCS game you are down at halftime, up 21-17 after 3, and don't put the game away until 6 mins left in the 4th Q, then yes people will question whether or not we should retain the HC come season's end. Name me a single program that wouldn't? People like to rewrite Marrone's history here. Yeah, it was really unreasonable to question the HC who went 2-9 over an 11 game stretch.

 

[OrangeDW]

Move? Read the question! I am the one that owns the crummy lawnscaping company!

If said yard was located in the desert or in the tundra, I might think that patchy grass is fairly impressive, given the dire circumstances it’s located in.

 

[OrangeDW]

We were? I remember Chandler being out. Marinovich too? The rest of the team was relatively healthy no?

When you have an 11 game stretch where you lose 8 in a row vs FBS teams, beat an FBS team by one point before losing to another FBS team making it 9 out of 10, and the 1 FCS game you are down at halftime, up 21-17 after 3, and don't put the game away until 6 mins left in the 4th Q, then yes people will question whether or not we should retain the HC come season's end. Name me a single program that wouldn't? People like to rewrite Marrone's history here. Yeah, it was really unreasonable to question the HC who went 2-9 over an 11 game stretch.

It was unreasonable...because he righted the ship. He was a good coach. Sometimes bad years and stretches happen.

 

[Briancuse]

So it’s either “win or go join the Patriot League”? Sorry, that’s just the rants of fans who try to simplify everything. Guess Duke, Kansas, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, etc. should all join the Patriot League too?

Maybe some of our fans need to move beyond the thnking of “record that is acceptable to me = coach is good. Record that isn’t what I want it to be means the coach is bad and we should fire him.”

personally I think a guy can be a good coach and have a hard time winning at Syracuse. Heck, Marrone went to the AFC title game in the NFL, and had to kill him self to go 8-5 here.

I think we should be shooting higher than those schools. Three of which are premier academic institutions with very little success in football. The other is a bball school that doesn't care about football.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think we should be shooting higher than those schools. Three of which are premier academic institutions with very little success in football. The other is a bball school that doesn't care about football.

I agree, we should be shooting higher. But shooting higher doesn’t necessarily mean firing the coach as soon as he has a bad stretch, when he’s already proven he can lead a winning team here. Maybe continuing to support him and continuing to invest in the facilities is the way to shoot higher?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It was unreasonable...because he righted the ship. He was a good coach. Sometimes bad years and stretches happen.

That was an 18 game stretch of bad football. The ship was not in the right direction yet.

 

[DeGrozz]

If said yard was located in the desert or in the tundra, I might think that patchy grass is fairly impressive, given the dire circumstances it’s located in.

It's got a beautiful, newly upgraded greenhouse onsite and also a brand new nursery to help raise sod for the full lawn. No one is expecting the lawn to be like those beauties down in the Southeast, but the lawncare guy said he envisioned it being consistently nice, not occasionally immaculate. Unfortunately, he just keeps giving me patchy mud pits, except that one year when everything seemingly fell into place.