Did SU go balls to the wall after Kevin Huerter...

[AZOrange]

It's not supposedly. We wanted him. he wanted us. We didn't have a ship to give him and wanted him to go prep a year. He wanted to go to college and chose Maryland. A short time later, we got a ship back.

About the worst timing we could’ve had.

 

[iommi]

For someone that’s not a PG Frank is still 3rd in the conference in assists and he’s not dumping the ball down to Bagley. He also leads in steals.

And what about his turnovers? Forget to mention them? He had a lot of assists last year too. His biggest improvement is as a shooter. Kudos to him for that. I will say that it's hard to play point guard when you don't have shooters/ weapons around you. He's doing the best he can, considering he never played PG in high school (because it shouldn't be his position). Depending on what the roster looks like in November, maybe we will have a few more options of offense.

I'll add that the only way we will be as good as people think we will be next year is if Frank becomes a game manager. Game managers/ good point guards have a much better Ast/TO ratio than FH does. His is awful. 4 turnovers a game or whatever he has does not cut it.

 

[two3zone]

But that's literally what happened. Due to the sanctions and Syracuse not having a scholarship, they asked him to do a prep year of when they'd offer him. His father said no to the idea and they committed to Maryland shortly after.

What scholarships were taken? We had two grad transfers that year and Mali left before he committed to Maryland.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

What scholarships were taken? We had two grad transfers that year and Mali left before he committed to Maryland.

Huerter committed to Maryland Sept 7, 2015.

Mali left after the FF in April 2016.

 

[AZOrange]

What scholarships were taken? We had two grad transfers that year and Mali left before he committed to Maryland.

Whatchu talkin bout Willis? Mali hadn’t even balled for SU when KH committed.

 

[dasher]

What scholarships were taken? We had two grad transfers that year and Mali left before he committed to Maryland.

Your timing is way off.

 

[rrlbees]

And what about his turnovers? Forget to mention them? He had a lot of assists last year too. His biggest improvement is as a shooter. Kudos to him for that. I will say that it's hard to play point guard when you don't have shooters/ weapons around you. He's doing the best he can, considering he never played PG in high school (because it shouldn't be his position). Depending on what the roster looks like in November, maybe we will have a few more options of offense.

I'll add that the only way we will be as good as people think we will be next year is if Frank becomes a game manager. Game managers/ good point guards have a much better Ast/TO ratio than FH does. His is awful. 4 turnovers a game or whatever he has does not cut it.

What about his turnovers? That doesn’t necessarily determine if he’s a PG. He’s over aggressive with some of his passes and makes some that he assumes will connect when they don’t, like someone not jumping or moving. Yea, most of them are on him, but as JB says, it’s an area he has to improve upon. Every player has to improve on something. Doesn’t make them not a certain position.

As to game manager, he does that. I had the good fortune of having the Uber seats the other night. He’s the only one on the court that talks at all. He’s constantly moving people, nodding, motioning, and managing what people should be doing if they aren’t in the right spot or reading something. About the only person he doesn’t do that with is Tyus. The others it’s only because they are so young and inexperienced.

 

[iommi]

What about his turnovers? That doesn’t necessarily determine if he’s a PG. He’s over aggressive with some of his passes and makes some that he assumes will connect when they don’t, like someone not jumping or moving. Yea, most of them are on him, but as JB says, it’s an area he has to improve upon. Every player has to improve on something. Doesn’t make them not a certain position.

As to game manager, he does that. I had the good fortune of having the Uber seats the other night. He’s the only one on the court that talks at all. He’s constantly moving people, nodding, motioning, and managing what people should be doing if they aren’t in the right spot or reading something. About the only person he doesn’t do that with is Tyus. The others it’s only because they are so young and inexperienced.

That's not what not really what I'm talking about regarding game management. I'm talking about not forcing things when they're not there... leading to bad turnovers. I'm referring to getting the team quickly into the offense (wait, we don't have an offense, scratch that). It's good he talks a lot and you can see that watching the games but I wish he wouldn't point fingers at his teammates. It's one thing to point to where they should be, it's quite another to blame them for his mistakes. He does that a few times a game.

And here's a pet peeve: why the heck does he almost literally walk the ball up the court? For a team that struggles to get shots and score, we need all the time on the shot clock possible. Starting to get into our "offense" with :2o secs on the clock isn't ideal. In fact, it's stupid.

Oh, and turnovers might not determine his position but they DO hurt anyone's argument that he's good as a point guard. Good point guards have good Ast/TO ratios. Only a contrarian would argue otherwise.

 

[two3zone]

Your timing is way off.

You're right. My mistake.

 

[rrlbees]

That's not what not really what I'm talking about regarding game management. I'm talking about not forcing things when they're not there... leading to bad turnovers. I'm referring to getting the team quickly into the offense (wait, we don't have an offense, scratch that). It's good he talks a lot and you can see that watching the games but I wish he wouldn't point fingers at his teammates. It's one thing to point to where they should be, it's quite another to blame them for his mistakes. He does that a few times a game.

And here's a pet peeve: why the heck does he almost literally walk the ball up the court? For a team that struggles to get shots and score, we need all the time on the shot clock possible. Starting to get into our "offense" with :2o secs on the clock isn't ideal. In fact, it's stupid.

Oh, and turnovers might not determine his position but they DO hurt anyone's argument that he's good as a point guard. Good point guards have good Ast/TO ratios. Only a contrarian would argue otherwise.

He’s managing the game the way his coach wants him too. We don’t run. If we’re supposed to be a fast break team and Frank was choosing to walk it up, he’d be benched. And as much as people say he walks it up, he’s sometimes the first player past mid court. And let me know the next time Chewy or Brissett gets a rebound and turns to make an outlet pass. I’ve said this before, but our guards come back to the ball/rebounder. The blame game is greatly over blown too. Greatly. He’s also the only one that points at hims of when he makes a mistake.

So you don’t think he’s a good PG. Guess that means all he has to do is cut out 1.5 turnovers and you’ll consider him great and all conference.

As an aside, did you see if Chewy doesn’t get that final rebound with 30 seconds to play, Frank would have led the team in points, rebounds, assists and steals. With 1 turnover.

 

[iommi]

He’s managing the game the way his coach wants him too. We don’t run. If we’re supposed to be a fast break team and Frank was choosing to walk it up, he’d be benched. And as much as people say he walks it up, he’s sometimes the first player past mid court. And let me know the next time Chewy or Brissett gets a rebound and turns to make an outlet pass. I’ve said this before, but our guards come back to the ball/rebounder. The blame game is greatly over blown too. Greatly. He’s also the only one that points at hims of when he makes a mistake.

So you don’t think he’s a good PG. Guess that means all he has to do is cut out 1.5 turnovers and you’ll consider him great and all conference.

As an aside, did you see if Chewy doesn’t get that final rebound with 30 seconds to play, Frank would have led the team in points, rebounds, assists and steals. With 1 turnover.

I'm not talking about running. I'm talking about him taking the ball up very slowly when not even pressured.

He wouldn't be all-conference even if he did cut down his turnovers. He's an improved player, I give him credit for that. He shot about 11% from 3 as a frosh, he's up to about 38%. He's not dynamic enough to be all-ACC. He's nowhere near the talent or class of a Joel Berry. His numbers look okay but he's also playing 38 MPG. Most guys will put up big numbers in that amount of time. Oshae is putting up double-doubles, for example, but he's not efficient. Neither is Tyus, for that matter.

He had a good game against Pitt, one of the worst teams in the country and yes, he only had one turnover. I'm well aware of that.

FH...benched for doing something wrong this year? That's a laugh.

 

[cuse2013]

Looking forward to a similar thread about JG3 in a few years

 

[CaptainJ]

To address the thread title, it takes these to go after(and land) recruits from your own state. At times, the Cuse didnt have them way back then. They do at times now, but when you see NYC bigs(the ones with the "edge" JB spoke of, not the nice guys from elsewhere) not get an offer either, it makes you wonder if they have them/"what it takes to play in a man's game"(to borrow some more from Glengarry Glen Ross). The scholarship excuse is convenient and maybe works for this one guy, but he isnt the only guy, and Ive read enough times on here about other teams a their limit and putting out offers. At times, the staff has lacked these(I thank tee for the reminder/photo of a guy whp didnt care to hear about excuses, but simply cared about results) :

 

[Delmar]

“did SU go balls to the wall for Kevin Heurter?

Reminds me of a rugby song

“”Balls to you partner,
Ass against the wall.
If you never get laid on a Saturday night
You’ll never get laid at all.”

 

[TinyManInside]

He's doing the best he can, considering he never played PG in high school (because it shouldn't be his position).

Why does this misinformation get repeated over and over? He played at Paul VI, which is about 7 miles from where I live, and I saw him play quite a lot of PG in the games that I went to. He wasn't used exclusively at PG, but he did play at least half his minutes at the point in the games I saw. I know he played off the ball most of the time in AAU and at most of the summer camps but saying he never played PG in high school is incorrect.

 

[TinyManInside]

He's a great 3 point shooter but he's not good on defense. Like really really not good according to Maryland fans.

I would like him on the team for future years but don't know where he'd fit this year. He wouldn't play over Tyus. He isn't a PG (neither is Frank) and he'd be a liability at SF on defense.

You are crazy if you think Huerter wouldn't play on this SU team.

 

[Brooky03]

You are crazy if you think Huerter wouldn't play on this SU team.

Then I guess it's a good think I don't think he wouldn't play

 

[iommi]

Why does this misinformation get repeated over and over? He played at Paul VI, which is about 7 miles from where I live, and I saw him play quite a lot of PG in the games that I went to. He wasn't used exclusively at PG, but he did play at least half his minutes at the point in the games I saw. I know he played off the ball most of the time in AAU and at most of the summer camps but saying he never played PG in high school is incorrect.

My mistake. We were the only team to recruit him as a point guard and his senior year, yes, he did play some point guard.

 

[SoBeCuse]

He’s managing the game the way his coach wants him too. We don’t run. If we’re supposed to be a fast break team and Frank was choosing to walk it up, he’d be benched. And as much as people say he walks it up, he’s sometimes the first player past mid court. And let me know the next time Chewy or Brissett gets a rebound and turns to make an outlet pass. I’ve said this before, but our guards come back to the ball/rebounder. The blame game is greatly over blown too. Greatly. He’s also the only one that points at hims of when he makes a mistake.

So you don’t think he’s a good PG. Guess that means all he has to do is cut out 1.5 turnovers and you’ll consider him great and all conference.

As an aside, did you see if Chewy doesn’t get that final rebound with 30 seconds to play, Frank would have led the team in points, rebounds, assists and steals. With 1 turnover.

This is your opinion. Just like Iommi or myself (which got me banned) have our opinions about Frank. What Boeheim said in last week’s (?) show was I believe the truth. “Frank is not a running point guard.” In my opinion he doesn’t have the requisite speed and his handle is too loose for it. I mean he lost in a foot race for crying out loud to that Colgate forward in a 3/4 court breakaway after he turned it over then got hit with the And-1.

You have talked about the times when he hasn’t been stripped of the ball. In my opinion it happened way too much in the first place. Even when he doesn’t get stripped when you commit offensive fouls/push offs that shows me the speed and handle just isn’t good enough. A ref could hit him with a carry on every possession walking it up as well if he wanted to be a stickler.

Plenty of teams and offenses still push it if a guard comes back to the ball after a rebound. Kansas, UNC, and countless others. Heck, Washington does it. I think if we run next year it will only happen if the ball is in Carey’s hands. I think it would be much of the same with Frank playing PG next year. Plodding, walking, little speed, etc. Maybe a friendly wager to see if this proves to be true/false?

The kid has improved a bunch for sure. He could average 20ppg but that wouldn’t change how I feel about his handle, speed, and decision making. I think he is a good college combo guy best suited as a 2G to come in and help out a primary ballhandler and give some spot minutes at PG. The majority of his minutes in my opinion in a perfect world would be off the ball.

BTW, I had a colleague text me who was at the game in Charlottesville with great seats. He’s a former player (D2), coach, and now lawyer. He doesn’t really know the rosters and doesn’t follow the game too much these days beyond knowing who the major coaches and ADs are. I won’t say exactly what he said but he was very perplexed by our PG situation. That was the only player he texted me about aside from the ISO garbage and joke.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Then I guess it's a good think I don't think he wouldn't play

Yeah we would continue to roll Marek out there.

19, 8, 5, and two blocks last night on 8 shots.
Most metrics say he’s better than Battle. I think Battle is a better isolation scorer, but that’s about it.

 

[Brooky03]

Yeah we would continue to roll Marek out there.

19, 8, 5, and two blocks last night on 8 shots.
Most metrics say he’s better than Battle. I think Battle is a better isolation scorer, but that’s about it.

Just to be clear, that post was saying I think he would play, probably out of position at SF. Him and Battle would be on the court together for 30+mpg each. It wouldn't be a one-or-the-other situation.

 

[rrlbees]

This is your opinion. Just like Iommi or myself (which got me banned) have our opinions about Frank. What Boeheim said in last week’s (?) show was I believe the truth. “Frank is not a running point guard.” In my opinion he doesn’t have the requisite speed and his handle is too loose for it. I mean he lost in a foot race for crying out loud to that Colgate forward in a 3/4 court breakaway after he turned it over then got hit with the And-1.

You have talked about the times when he hasn’t been stripped of the ball. In my opinion it happened way too much in the first place. Even when he doesn’t get stripped when you commit offensive fouls/push offs that shows me the speed and handle just isn’t good enough. A ref could hit him with a carry on every possession walking it up as well if he wanted to be a stickler.

Plenty of teams and offenses still push it if a guard comes back to the ball after a rebound. Kansas, UNC, and countless others. Heck, Washington does it. I think if we run next year it will only happen if the ball is in Carey’s hands. I think it would be much of the same with Frank playing PG next year. Plodding, walking, little speed, etc. Maybe a friendly wager to see if this proves to be true/false?

The kid has improved a bunch for sure. He could average 20ppg but that wouldn’t change how I feel about his handle, speed, and decision making. I think he is a good college combo guy best suited as a 2G to come in and help out a primary ballhandler and give some spot minutes at PG. The majority of his minutes in my opinion in a perfect world would be off the ball.

BTW, I had a colleague text me who was at the game in Charlottesville with great seats. He’s a former player (D2), coach, and now lawyer. He doesn’t really know the rosters and doesn’t follow the game too much these days beyond knowing who the major coaches and ADs are. I won’t say exactly what he said but he was very perplexed by our PG situation. That was the only player he texted me about aside from the ISO garbage and joke.

You cut off 1/2 of JBs quote. And I didn’t give opinion. I gave observations of what was going on in the court. My only opinion was about the benching.

 

[orangecuse]

He’s managing the game the way his coach wants him too. We don’t run. If we’re supposed to be a fast break team and Frank was choosing to walk it up, he’d be benched. And as much as people say he walks it up, he’s sometimes the first player past mid court. And let me know the next time Chewy or Brissett gets a rebound and turns to make an outlet pass. I’ve said this before, but our guards come back to the ball/rebounder. The blame game is greatly over blown too. Greatly. He’s also the only one that points at hims of when he makes a mistake.

So you don’t think he’s a good PG. Guess that means all he has to do is cut out 1.5 turnovers and you’ll consider him great and all conference.

As an aside, did you see if Chewy doesn’t get that final rebound with 30 seconds to play, Frank would have led the team in points, rebounds, assists and steals. With 1 turnover.

That's interesting, you know that with absolute certainty that JB is instructing him not to run? I usually see JB after we get a rebound do something with his arms/hands as to imply "let's go!" I imagine JB may do this as he knows if we could somehow get a quick/good opportunity at a bucket that would be a good thing, considering how mundane our offense generally is in the half court. Frank, however, can't really push the ball from what I've seen, and when he gets sped up, his adequate at best handle, gets more sloppy and is right there for the taking. Additionally, if the two guys you cite can't make a simple outlet pass at this level, I don't what to say. I do know that middle schooler's can learn how to do this after just a day or two of gym class. Of course, this is just my assessment/opinion.

The pointing to himself comment when he makes a mistake is comical. It's so frigging obvious that he did so, and it being completely on him, I have no idea why he does it. No one needs him to point it out as his teammates, along with everyone watching is like, "no s!?t Sherlock!" It's about as obvious and silly as the Dome's PA guy who apparently feels the needs to announce the score, even though everyone has a pair of eyes and can view the numerous scoreboards that are in the building.

 

[SoBeCuse]

You cut off 1/2 of JBs quote. And I didn’t give opinion. I gave observations of what was going on in the court. My only opinion was about the benching.

Well this sure gets us nowhere since I’m giving some observations as well.

I find it fascinating though this whole pushing it business. Whether they are truly incapable of pushing it due to talent deficiencies or purely strategic to save energy we will truly never know. Still, one would think they would want to get some opportunities before a defense gets set.

Next year should give us the answers and should be easy to deduce. If Frank is ACTUALLY running up and down the floor making plays then I ‘ll be 100% wrong and I’ll own it. IMO, for that to happen a ton of work would need to be put in during the off-season shaping up his handle, speed/agility/change of direction drills, etc. Regardless, I’ll own it. If Frank walks it up and if Carey pushes it when he has the rock then we know he is incapable. If neither push it then we’re officially dead men walking.

 

[iommi]

Well this sure gets us nowhere since I’m giving some observations as well.

I find it fascinating though this whole pushing it business. Whether they are truly incapable of pushing it due to talent deficiencies or purely strategic to save energy we will truly never know. Still, one would think they would want to get some opportunities before a defense gets set.

Next year should give us the answers and should be easy to deduce. If Frank is ACTUALLY running up and down the floor making plays then I ‘ll be 100% wrong and I’ll own it. IMO, for that to happen a ton of work would need to be put in during the off-season shaping up his handle, speed/agility/change of direction drills, etc. Regardless, I’ll own it. If Frank walks it up and if Carey pushes it when he has the rock then we know he is incapable. If neither push it then we’re officially dead men walking.

If we don't strategically don't push the ball up the court with Carey and Bazley it would be truly disturbing.