Does it matter how we win?

[OrangeAl]

Yes, because we've seen that dance before, and because we would still be failing to take advantage of the Dome. Again, because people forget or ignore this, THE ONLY STADIUM OF ITS TYPE IN ALL OF P5. And also because we've seen a successful season and followed it up with a bad season. I'm not talking about what happens in any one season here.

Now, string together three consecutive 8 win seasons with your I offense and maybe there's something to think about.

I just don't understand - we've had such bad results going defense first. Abysmal. Yet people are convinced its our salvation. Why? How?

At this point I'm convinced that the football gods are punishing us for our stupidity. Until we actually acknowledge our advantages we won't consistently be good.

Honest question: Do you applaud McDonald and HCSS for trying and failing to be what you're looking for?

 

[bcubs9497]

Honest question: Do you applaud McDonald and HCSS for trying and failing to be what you're looking for?

No, pretty sure he's bitched about that, too.

 

[PhatOrange]

no it doesn't

 

[chakka3421]

If you want to "win with style", go grab a teddy from Victoria's Secret and wear it during the game.

THIS is just way too funny...thanks for making my day!

However, I'm sure there are a few on this Board that would complaint about the Teddy like the color - not enough Orange in it...too much blue...

 

[Millhouse]

Honest question: Do you applaud McDonald and HCSS for trying and failing to be what you're looking for?

just because so many syracuse fans are so ignorant about college football that they don't recognize what works doesn't mean I want to give mcdonald a cookie for incompetently calling what can be a good offense in other people's hands

 

[bcubs9497]

THIS is just way too funny...thanks for making my day!

However, I'm sure there are a few on this Board that would complaint about the Teddy like the color - not enough Orange in it...too much blue...

We could make it out of bubble wrap...

 

[GoSU96]

Honest question: Do you applaud McDonald and HCSS for trying and failing to be what you're looking for?

He was all in.

 

[Millhouse]

He was all in.

i wonder what mcdonald's career yards per game looks like compared to other SU offensive coordinators.

mcdonald 385 ypg
2000-2012 337 ypg

that type of gap even with mcdonald's incompetence is evidence that they should've found someone competent to do the same thing, not give up on it

 

[OrangePA]

But hasn't the game changed too much over the last say five years to make that comparison?

 

[Millhouse]

But hasn't the game changed too much over the last say five years to make that comparison?

sure, i don't want to give mcdonald all the credit. the only reason to give up on that type of offense is a bias against it. people need to separate from mcdonald from the system.

marrone averaged 371.

his last 3 years averaged 383.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Honest question: Do you applaud McDonald and HCSS for trying and failing to be what you're looking for?

I said multiple times that I felt it was a better strategy for us to commit to a better offensive system even if the talent didn't quite fit and grow through the pain of that change rather than keep trying to cobble together offenses that "fit the talent." I still believe this to be true.

No, pretty sure he's bitched about that, too.

What's the purpose of this post? What contribution does this make to the conversation we're having? Not only was that comment completely unnecessary, it made an assumption that is incorrect.

Step your game up.

the only reason to give up on that type of offense is a bias against it. people need to separate from mcdonald from the system.

I agree with this 100%.

 

[KaiserUEO]

sure, i don't want to give mcdonald all the credit. the only reason to give up on that type of offense is a bias against it. people need to separate from mcdonald from the system.

marrone averaged 371.

his last 3 years averaged 383.

i agree it can sometimes be the play calling, not the plays.

this is explains why doogie cant walk and chew gum at the same time without hacket.

hes got the system, just cant call the plays.

just another reason why he will NEVER be a HC again.

 

[TheCusian]

i wonder what mcdonald's career yards per game looks like compared to other SU offensive coordinators.

mcdonald 385 ypg
2000-2012 337 ypg

that type of gap even with mcdonald's incompetence is evidence that they should've found someone competent to do the same thing, not give up on it

How do you know we've given up on it? Lester said that he learned a lot from being QB coach the last two years under George. I'd be shocked not to see some of the same concepts.

 

[bcubs9497]

I said multiple times that I felt it was a better strategy for us to commit to a better offensive system even if the talent didn't quite fit and grow through the pain of that change rather than keep trying to cobble together offenses that "fit the talent." I still believe this to be true.

What's the purpose of this post? What contribution does this make to the conversation we're having? Not only was that comment completely unnecessary, it made an assumption that is incorrect.

Step your game up.

I agree with this 100%.

The purpose, dear sir, is to indescreetly point out that you are dissatisfied with everything. I sincerely believe that had Syracuse 25 5* recruits and 15 straight national championships, you'd bitch about the lack of fresh bratwursts, or something.

Your posts seem to be full of "yeah, buts". Meaning, someone posts a bit of positive news, and you almost invariably come up with "yeah, but Syracuse Sucks! The coaches suck! The players suck! Recruiting sucks! Fire Shafer!"

Damn, but it gets tiring. If everything sucks, why the @#$ are you still here?

 

[KaiserUEO]

How do you know we've given up on it? Lester said that he learned a lot from being QB coach the last two years under George. I'd be shocked not to see some of the same concepts.

he also said he didnt understand the offense.

the spring game also overwhelmed him.

scary...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The purpose, dear sir, is to indescreetly point out that you are dissatisfied with everything. I sincerely believe that had Syracuse 25 5* recruits and 15 straight national championships, you'd bitch about the lack of fresh bratwursts, or something.

Your posts seem to be full of "yeah, buts". Meaning, someone posts a bit of positive news, and you almost invariably come up with "yeah, but Syracuse Sucks! The coaches suck! The players suck! Recruiting sucks! Fire Shafer!"

Damn, but it gets tiring. If everything sucks, why the @#$ are you still here?

That is simply false.

 

[TheCusian]

sure, i don't want to give mcdonald all the credit. the only reason to give up on that type of offense is a bias against it. people need to separate from mcdonald from the system.

marrone averaged 371.

his last 3 years averaged 383.

The great straw man argument. Who exactly has a bias against that type of offense? Shafer hired a guy to run it, Acosta still has a thing about the NZone in his twitter handle, Lester said he liked some of the concepts... Must be the mythical Meathead Strawmen™ you see as your enemy around here. Hate those guys.

 

[TheCusian]

he also said he didnt understand the offense.

the spring game also overwhelmed him.

scary...

Links or it didn't happen, bro.

 

[Millhouse]

The great straw man argument. Who exactly has a bias against that type of offense? Shafer hired a guy to run it, Acosta still has a thing about the NZone in his twitter handle, Lester said he liked some of the concepts... Must be the mythical Meathead Strawmen™ you see as your enemy around here. Hate those guys.

i'm talking about people on the board. i don't know what the heck lester wants to do yet and I wish we never had to find out (would've preferred to hire someone where we knew more)

 

[007]

i wonder what mcdonald's career yards per game looks like compared to other SU offensive coordinators.

mcdonald 385 ypg
2000-2012 337 ypg

that type of gap even with mcdonald's incompetence is evidence that they should've found someone competent to do the same thing, not give up on it

I am firmly in the Spread Offense camp, with the right coordinator and a program commitment to that vision. I agree with you, we have not had that.

What's interesting to me is that the "12" personnel was developed as a tactic to counter defenses that drop 8 men into the gaps along the O line to stop the run. This happens routinely to SU. The use of an extra TE on the line takes away that advantage from the D, in theory anyway. So, IF the O line can control the line of scrimmage, there is the potential for big plays from the run game. Big if.

The "12" personnel will give Lester the ability to run a variety of base and spread formations without sending in different personnel or tipping off the D prior to breaking the huddle.

The problem with the 12 is that you need to have an H-back who is equally effective as the 2nd TE, a 3rd WR and, to a lesser extent, as a 2nd RB or full back to fully utilize what the 12 can do. That H back needs to be an effective blocking TE on the edge (going up against DEs and SAMs) and just as good as the 3rd WR who would have been used on the field in 3 WR sets. The 2nd TE can also be split out, and the RB can be motioned out as a WR to give a full 5 WR spread look.

A lot of faith is being placed in finding those H back types (Trey D?) AND in Lester's ability to maximize play calling through use of various formations to counter the disparity in talent that O will routinely face.

 

[TheCusian]

i'm talking about people on the board. i don't know what the heck lester wants to do yet and I wish we never had to find out (would've preferred to hire someone where we knew more)

Yeah - I know. I just think there are a lot less of those guys than you think.

 

[TheCusian]

I am firmly in the Spread Offense camp, with the right coordinator and a program commitment to that vision. I agree with you, we have not had that.

What's interesting to me is that the "12" personnel was developed as a tactic to counter defenses that drop 8 men into the gaps along the O line to stop the run. This happens routinely to SU. The use of an extra TE on the line takes away that advantage from the D, in theory anyway. So, IF the O line can control the line of scrimmage, there is the potential for big plays from the run game. Big if.

The "12" personnel will give Lester the ability to run a variety of base and spread formations without sending in different personnel or tipping off the D prior to breaking the huddle.

The problem with the 12 is that you need to have an H-back who is equally effective as the 2nd TE, a 3rd WR and, to a lesser extent, as a 2nd RB or full back to fully utilize what the 12 can do. That H back needs to be an effective blocking TE on the edge (going up against DEs and SAMs) and just as good as the 3rd WR who would have been used on the field in 3 WR sets. The 2nd TE can also be split out, and the RB can be motioned out as a WR to give a full 5 WR spread look.

A lot of faith is being placed in finding those H back types (Trey D?) AND in Lester's ability to maximize play calling through use of various formations to counter the disparity in talent that O will routinely face.

Bring in the DUNK.

(Note: I hope Trey D is the guy. He's already 2nd string, per his Mom)

 

[Finwad32]

Holy crappoly, we need Spring ball... Give me some football to diagnose. The 12 personnel, whether it's going to be utilized or not, I don't believe has been confirmed.

Let's see some stuff on the field before getting down. I'm interested to see what this offense will look like. I don't know right now.

Fwiw, I come from a Spread offense that utilizes no huddle and the zone read as its base. I love that offense. That being said, I wonder how long until the game progresses to something else.

 

[Finwad32]

Finwad, I'd counter that in today's game sizzle is coupled with winning. If you bail on sizzle, it's a low probability that you win.

This ain't Lombardi era football.

I agree to an extent. The game has certainly evolved. More in the past decade than in the previous half century.

The most successful teams in the country are performing with sizzle right now for the most part, I think. But, for every Oregon, there are 5 WSU and SMU's.

 

[RMH44]

sure, i don't want to give mcdonald all the credit. the only reason to give up on that type of offense is a bias against it. people need to separate from mcdonald from the system.

marrone averaged 371.

his last 3 years averaged 383.

Right...and other than going fast in 2012 what similarities were there between the FHCDM/Hackett offense and McDonald's? Not many.

Simply because Lester plans to use a base "12 personnel" package doesn't guarantee that we won't see other groupings. It also doesn't guarantee that we'll be throwing any less but, hopefully, it should help us establish some sort of offensive identity. The offense has been completely rudderless over the last two years.

Btw, separate McDonald from the system? In order to do that, we'd have to identify what his system was. I'm not sure George knew what system he was running.