Does it matter how we win?

[GoSU96]

do you think mcdonald was in a good position in 2013?

Orders of magnitude better than 2009.

 

[Millhouse]

Orders of magnitude better than 2009.

how about 2010? throw out 2009, mcdonald still has a higher ypg (barely)

remember my point isn't to put down the assistant to the regional manager or to say that mcdonald was any good at all

 

[Scooch]

lets take it back to your boy BB and last sunday.

lots of people are talking about the carrol boner, as they should, but the other thing is why didnt BB call TO at some point to give him & brady* more time on the clock to go down and kick a FG if a TD was scored??

no way in hell was he overwhelmed by the moment, if anything...im sure he knew what he was doing...and 1 might surmise that the clock continuing to run, was NOT what seattle was expecting and they choked it.

clock is running and pats are out there in goal line and seattle lines up 3 wide. TO right??

nope. lousy play call ensues and lousier QB makes his SuperBowl mark.

now lets say BB calls it, seattle rethinks and gives it to lynch...TD. which is what we all were expecting.

you gotta think of everything and not overthink the mundane crap like what to run on 1st & 1o in september.

genius.

cheater, but genius.

I try not to compare the NFL, and certainly not the Pats, to college because generally speaking both the quality of player and quality of coach are so markedly better it's unrealistic to hold college teams to a pro expectation.

That being said, you got it. Even putting aside that specific scenario... a former Pats OLman was on the radio last week talking about how crazed the team was at preparation during his time there. He said during practices BB would stop everyone, and say something along the lines of "It's 2nd and 9 from the 43, we just called {X} play, what are you doing?" He said the players would think it was completely random and bizarre... until 2 months later they were in a game and that exact situation came up, and they all knew exactly what they needed to do. Said he never played for another team that was remotely as fanatic about preparation as the Pats.

Hell, on that 2nd and goal play it's now well-known that Butler knew exactly where that pass was going, and the proof is the break he makes towards that spot, beating the receiver there. That wasn't instinct, that was preparation.

Marrone and his staff were clearly excellent at preparation. Shafer... not so good so far.

 

[CIL]

i wonder what mcdonald's career yards per game looks like compared to other SU offensive coordinators.

mcdonald 385 ypg
2000-2012 337 ypg

that type of gap even with mcdonald's incompetence is evidence that they should've found someone competent to do the same thing, not give up on it

Pretty selective with your data points there. Marrone's final year was pretty darn good. The offense prior to his arrival was abysmal.

 

[Upstate]

Pretty selective with your data points there. Marrone's final year was pretty darn good. The offense prior to his arrival was abysmal.

I've said it once and will say it again, at the end of Marrone's final season, there wasn't a team outside of the top-15 that I'd have taken against SU. They were rolling.

 

[Millhouse]

Pretty selective with your data points there. Marrone's final year was pretty darn good. The offense prior to his arrival was abysmal.

Thanks for correcting my selective use of 12 years by using a less selective 1 year.

college football reference game query tool goes back to 2000, that was the quickest way to get any multi year average

I also gave marrone's 4 year and final 3 year average. I assumed everyone knew that 2012's offense was much better than mcdonald's 17 or so games. I figured someone would complain about including gerg so i put marrone in only in there knowing that.

Throw out Gerg, average was 365. Still less than McDonald's

 

[Millhouse]

Gotcha...but here's a thought. Maybe Lester decided to scrap the offense because we don't have a QB that can accurately throw from one hash to the other on a consistent basis? Even bubble screens are fairly long throws.

In a 12 set I think we'll see more routes over the middle along with rub routes in the flats. Hopefully, Lester will scheme some mismatches for the Aldy and Custis while getting the ball to Estime, AB and Phillips is space.

how long a throw do you think our bubble screens were?

even paulus could make those throws

 

[Millhouse]

I agree to an extent. The game has certainly evolved. More in the past decade than in the previous half century.

The most successful teams in the country are performing with sizzle right now for the most part, I think. But, for every Oregon, there are 5 WSU and SMU's.

You really think that's the ratio?

 

[OrangePA]

i only brought him up because lots of people agree with you. and yet mcdonald had more ypg. we all agree that mcdonald is a bit of a bozo, so the offense must work ok if a bozo can direct an offense that gains more yards than a very good football mind.

It will certainly be interesting to see this offense - with a healthy and experienced Hunt - under Lester's direction.

I have to believe that we can move the ball with the skill people we have and the experience on the OL.

And maybe what we see will support the conclusion - that McDonald was inept.

 

[OrangePA]

do you think mcdonald was in a good position in 2013?

I think McDonald was in a much better position in 2013 than Marrone was in 2009.

 

[Crusty]

I think McDonald was in a much better position in 2013 than Marrone was in 2009.

Probably true, but McD had much tougher schedule.

 

[OrangePA]

Probably true, but McD had much tougher schedule.

Marrone certainly did not face FSU - I agree with that.

Otherwise, I'm not sure I can agree with you.

Marrone faced a very good Brian Kelly-led Cincinnati team that ended the season 12-1.

A Penn State team that ended the season 11-2.

A Pitt team that ended the season 10-3.

A Rutgers team that ended the season 9-4.

A West Va team that ended the season 9-4.

A USF team with JPP and George Selvy that ended the season 8-5.

A UConn team that ended the season 8-5.

And NW and Minnesota - two fairly tough Big Ten teams.

So, no, I don't think the 2009 schedule was easier than last year's schedule.

 

[Crusty]

Marrone certainly did not face FSU - I agree with that.

Otherwise, I'm not sure I can agree with you.

Marrone faced a very good Brian Kelly-led Cincinnati team that ended the season 12-1.

A Penn State team that ended the season 11-2.

A Pitt team that ended the season 10-3.

A Rutgers team that ended the season 9-4.

A West Va team that ended the season 9-4.

A USF team with JPP and George Selvy that ended the season 8-5.

A UConn team that ended the season 8-5.

And NW and Minnesota - two fairly tough Big Ten teams.

So, no, I don't think the 2009 schedule was easier than last year's schedule.

Those w-l records were vs BE play or worse.

 

[GoSU96]

Those w-l records were vs BE play or worse.

What a crock.

2009 8 of 11 D-1 games opponents finished with 8 wins or more, 1 six win team, 1 with a losing record.

2013, 3 of 12 opponents finished with 8 wins or more, 6 teams with 7 wins, 3 with a losing record.

 

[Chip]

Those NFL guys started from scratch. McDonald didn't.

Exactly. McDonald had Jarrod West. Marrone was stuck with Mike Williams.

 

[Scooch]

Exactly. McDonald had Jarrod West. Marrone was stuck with Mike Williams.

STOP. There is a NARRATIVE!

 

[OrangePA]

Exactly. McDonald had Jarrod West. Marrone was stuck with Mike Williams.

Oh my.

2008 - 3-9

2012 - 8-5.

 

[GoSU96]

Exactly. McDonald had Jarrod West. Marrone was stuck with Mike Williams.

That's a joke, right?

Anybody who thinks that they started from close to equivalent places is a compete idiot.

 

[Chip]

Oh my. 2008 - 3-9 2012 - 8-5.

I really liked Marrone as our HC. Wish he stayed but some guys just aren't built for sticking around places too long. They're usually the ones who blame everyone else for it.

Anyway, I was just having some fun with the Kathy Bates to Marrone's James Caan. Awful lot of offensive production left with that 8-5 record. But at least Jarrod West was still around. I suppose I should be more fair and at least include Hickey.

 

[Chip]

That's a joke, right?

I was just hoping to hear the story again.

Total rebuild makes me horny.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

OK gentlemen, another scenario: da Bears, they don't make it, the plane is delayed... and the only one who shows up is Ditka. Ditka vs a team of mini Marrones. OK, score gentlemen.

 

[Millhouse]

I was just hoping to hear the story again.

Total rebuild makes me horny.

this just in go, adjacent seasons can have very different rosters due to players graduating

 

[SWC75]

It's not a question of which is important: winning or excitement? It's a question of what is going to produce wins in an era when the 63rd highest scoring team in a 125 school division averaged 29 points a game.

If you are concerned about 'style' it becomes a question of which way would your rather lose? If we'd gone 3-9 scoring 30ppg while giving up 40, would more people be at the game? I don't know. I don't want to find out.

 

[Millhouse]

It's not a question of which is important: winning or excitement? It's a question of what is going to produce wins in an era when the 63rd highest scoring team in a 125 school division averaged 29 points a game.

If you are concerned about 'style' it becomes a question of which way would your rather lose? If we'd gone 3-9 scoring 30ppg while giving up 40, would more people be at the game? I don't know. I don't want to find out.

Teams that scored 30 points per game last year had 516 wins and 254 losses. 8 wins per 12 games.

 

[Scooch]

Teams that scored 30 points per game last year had 516 wins and 254 losses. 8 wins per 12 games.

Again, people have some weird hang-up where they think that scoring more points automatically means playing worse defense.

The top half of scoring teams averaged 35.0 PPG and gave up 26.7 PPG. The bottom half of scoring teams averaged 23.3 PPG gave up 28.7 PPG.

So in other words, teams in the top half of scoring had a positive scoring margin of 8.2 while teams in the bottom half of scoring had a negative scoring margin of -5.4.

Or looking at it another way, just 7 of the 64 teams in the top half of scoring teams had a negative per game point differential, while just 18 of the 64 teams in the bottom half of scoring teams had a positive per game point differential.

All of this means that it is better to score more points!