Does it matter how we win?

[GoSU96]

i wonder what mcdonald's career yards per game looks like compared to other SU offensive coordinators.

mcdonald 385 ypg
2000-2012 337 ypg

that type of gap even with mcdonald's incompetence is evidence that they should've found someone competent to do the same thing, not give up on it

He didn't get bounced because of how many yards they got. He got fired because they couldn't score, couldn't stay on the field, and couldn't pass the ball.

They did one thing okay, and that was run.

I'm not sure that's what you were getting at.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Links or it didn't happen, bro.

theyve been linked, thought these were taken as truths by now.

im no internet slueth, but ill see what i can find.

 

[Millhouse]

Right...and other than going fast in 2012 what similarities were there between the FHCDM/Hackett offense and McDonald's? Not many.

Simply because Lester plans to use a base "12 personnel" package doesn't guarantee that we won't see other groupings. It also doesn't guarantee that we'll be throwing any less but, hopefully, it should help us establish some sort of offensive identity. The offense has been completely rudderless over the last two years.

Btw, separate McDonald from the system? In order to do that, we'd have to identify what his system was. I'm not sure George knew what system he was running.

i wasn't saying the mcdonald offense was similar to marrones, i'm saying that the incompetent mcf*ckit was still able to average more yards than the NFL coaches with terrell hunt as his qb.

mcdonald ran the n zone. mazzone sells it to high school coaches who don't know what they're doing, like Mcdonald.

a doofus who just buys an offense can outgain the NFL guys despite not knowing what the bubble screen is for

line people up near the sidelines and run the ball. not hard

 

[Millhouse]

He didn't get bounced because of how many yards they got. He got fired because they couldn't score, couldn't stay on the field, and couldn't pass the ball.

They did one thing okay, and that was run.

I'm not sure that's what you were getting at.

i agree that's why mcdonald got bounced. and i'm fine with that. (i think he got bounced for being quoted saying at least 3 times in an interview) but why did the offense get bounced?

 

[KaiserUEO]

Links or it didn't happen, bro.

lester overwhelmed...

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2013/06/syracuse_qb_coach_tim_lester_a.html

 

[OrangePA]

i agree it can sometimes be the play calling, not the plays.

this is explains why doogie cant walk and chew gum at the same time without hacket.

hes got the system, just cant call the plays.

just another reason why he will NEVER be a HC again.

I am amazed by the negative feelings expressed about Doug Marrone on the board these days.

I still consider him to be an SU Football hero.

And though I think he made a bad tactical decision a few weeks ago, he is still a very good football mind and a very good HC.

I suspect that he will be a HC again soon and I wish he were still the SU HC.

 

[GoSU96]

i wasn't saying the mcdonald offense was similar to marrones, i'm saying that the incompetent mcf*ckit was still able to average more yards than the NFL coaches with terrell hunt as his qb.

mcdonald ran the n zone. mazzone sells it to high school coaches who don't know what they're doing, like Mcdonald.

a doofus who just buys an offense can outgain the NFL guys despite not knowing what the bubble screen is for

line people up near the sidelines and run the ball. not hard

Those NFL guys started from scratch. McDonald didn't.

 

[Millhouse]

I am amazed by the negative feelings expressed about Doug Marrone on the board these days.

I still consider him to be an SU Football hero.

And though I think he made a bad tactical decision a few weeks ago, he is still a very good football mind and a very good HC.

I suspect that he will be a HC again soon and I wish he were still the SU HC.

i only brought him up because lots of people agree with you. and yet mcdonald had more ypg. we all agree that mcdonald is a bit of a bozo, so the offense must work ok if a bozo can direct an offense that gains more yards than a very good football mind.

 

[Millhouse]

Those NFL guys started from scratch. McDonald didn't.

that's your story and you're sticking to it

 

[RMH44]

i wasn't saying the mcdonald offense was similar to marrones, i'm saying that the incompetent mcf*ckit was still able to average more yards than the NFL coaches with terrell hunt as his qb.

mcdonald ran the n zone. mazzone sells it to high school coaches who don't know what they're doing, like Mcdonald.

a doofus who just buys an offense can outgain the NFL guys despite not knowing what the bubble screen is for

line people up near the sidelines and run the ball. not hard

Gotcha...but here's a thought. Maybe Lester decided to scrap the offense because we don't have a QB that can accurately throw from one hash to the other on a consistent basis? Even bubble screens are fairly long throws.

In a 12 set I think we'll see more routes over the middle along with rub routes in the flats. Hopefully, Lester will scheme some mismatches for the Aldy and Custis while getting the ball to Estime, AB and Phillips is space.

 

[javadoc]

qbs have trouble throwing the ball when it's wet or windy.

So it's easier for an offense to execute a passing game in a controlled environment. It's also easier for a defense to play faster, better reactive football to any offense in such conditions. +1 for each side. Why the assumption that the benefit to the offense wins out?

 

[GoSU96]

that's your story and you're sticking to it

It's the truth, how much you want to deny it.

 

[OrangePA]

i only brought him because lots of people agree with you. and yet mcdonald had more ypg. we all agree that mcdonald is a bit of a bozo, so the offense must work ok if a bozo can direct an offense that gains more yards than a very good football mind.

I just can't make that kind of comparison.

We were not Alabama last year - obviously not by a longshot.

But we had more athletes on the offensive side of the ball last year than we have had probably in over 15 years.

I just don't think that Marrone ever had the kind of talent at the skill positions.

Marrone would have done well with last year's personnel. That's my opinion.

 

[Millhouse]

I just can't make that kind of comparison.

We were not Alabama last year - obviously not by a longshot.

But we had more athletes on the offensive side of the ball last year than we have had probably in over 15 years.

I just don't think that Marrone ever had the kind of talent at the skill positions.

Marrone would have done well with last year's personnel. That's my opinion.

come on, we're talking about terrel hunt at the most important position

for the sake of argument, let's say that's all true. my point here isn't about marrone, my point is that the offensive system couldn't have been that bad if a *ckit dope could direct an offense with the same yardage

but mcdonald's skill position guys were west, gulley, broyld, and hunt. i like west a lot but come on. ishmael didn't emerge til later

nassib sales lemon smith carter bailey. marrone wasn't hurting that much at the skill positions. i included marrone's numbers without 2009 to give marrone a year to get his act together

i don't even like the n zone that much. but it does work

 

[Millhouse]

It's the truth, how much you want to deny it.

View attachment 36180

a coach can be terrible without the players being terrible

see cell ZX69

 

[Kelly029x]

I am firmly in the Spread Offense camp, with the right coordinator and a program commitment to that vision. I agree with you, we have not had that.

What's interesting to me is that the "12" personnel was developed as a tactic to counter defenses that drop 8 men into the gaps along the O line to stop the run. This happens routinely to SU. The use of an extra TE on the line takes away that advantage from the D, in theory anyway. So, IF the O line can control the line of scrimmage, there is the potential for big plays from the run game. Big if.

The "12" personnel will give Lester the ability to run a variety of base and spread formations without sending in different personnel or tipping off the D prior to breaking the huddle.

The problem with the 12 is that you need to have an H-back who is equally effective as the 2nd TE, a 3rd WR and, to a lesser extent, as a 2nd RB or full back to fully utilize what the 12 can do. That H back needs to be an effective blocking TE on the edge (going up against DEs and SAMs) and just as good as the 3rd WR who would have been used on the field in 3 WR sets. The 2nd TE can also be split out, and the RB can be motioned out as a WR to give a full 5 WR spread look.

A lot of faith is being placed in finding those H back types (Trey D?) AND in Lester's ability to maximize play calling through use of various formations to counter the disparity in talent that O will routinely face.

I believe he has what it takes ~ we shall see! Trey told us this morning that he has never thrown up this much working out (he threw in a lol in his text). He said coach is mad. I asked mad as in pissed or mad as in crazy. He said pissed (3-9 season). These guys are being worked hard, which is great! Told Trey he's is getting ready for beast mode.

 

[Kelly029x]

Winning is winning; whether it be establishing the run, airing it out, special teams, defense, whatever.

If you want to "win with style", go grab a teddy from Victoria's Secret and wear it during the game.

:rolling:

 

[KaiserUEO]

I am amazed by the negative feelings expressed about Doug Marrone on the board these days.

I still consider him to be an SU Football hero.

And though I think he made a bad tactical decision a few weeks ago, he is still a very good football mind and a very good HC.

I suspect that he will be a HC again soon and I wish he were still the SU HC.

why wouldnt you, i or anyone else NOT consider him a Syracuse football hero??

he is.

boneheaded decision or not, cant take that away from him.

he may very well be a HC at a college, id take him at Syracuse...hell, he may need to be nick saben part II to get another HC job in the NFL, for he done there now.

 

[TheCusian]

theyve been linked, thought these were taken as truths by now. im no internet slueth, but ill see what i can find.

Thanks. I've watched and read just about all of Lesters comments over the last year - but it all blends together.

 

[Scooch]

lester overwhelmed...

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2013/06/syracuse_qb_coach_tim_lester_a.html

I understand why something like that might happen. It's not the end of the world. BUT that is symptomatic of a broader problem with preparation this staff seems to have. All coaches work ridiculous hours, but I think too many of the spend too much time on the wrong things.

 

[SU2NASA]

We're just not cheating enough.

 

[GoSU96]

a coach can be terrible without the players being terrible

see cell ZX69

What they inherited is the definition of starting from scratch. You think the program was in the position of an instant turnaround on offense?

 

[GoSU96]

I believe he has what it takes ~ we shall see! Trey told us this morning that he has never thrown up this much working out (he threw in a lol in his text). He said coach is mad. I asked mad as in pissed or mad as in crazy. He said pissed (3-9 season). These guys are being worked hard, which is great! Told Trey he's is getting ready for beast mode.

Effort wasn't a problem last year.

Kids breaking down was a big problem.

I hope the answer to their issues isn't to work these guys harder.

Rather see smarter.

 

[Millhouse]

What they inherited is the definition of starting from scratch. You think the program was in the position of an instant turnaround on offense?

do you think mcdonald was in a good position in 2013?

 

[KaiserUEO]

I understand why something like that might happen. It's not the end of the world. BUT that is symptomatic of a broader problem with preparation this staff seems to have. All coaches work ridiculous hours, but I think too many of the spend too much time on the wrong things.

lets take it back to your boy BB and last sunday.

lots of people are talking about the carrol boner, as they should, but the other thing is why didnt BB call TO at some point to give him & brady* more time on the clock to go down and kick a FG if a TD was scored??

no way in hell was he overwhelmed by the moment, if anything...im sure he knew what he was doing...and 1 might surmise that the clock continuing to run, was NOT what seattle was expecting and they choked it.

clock is running and pats are out there in goal line and seattle lines up 3 wide. TO right??

nope. lousy play call ensues and lousier QB makes his SuperBowl mark.

now lets say BB calls it, seattle rethinks and gives it to lynch...TD. which is what we all were expecting.

you gotta think of everything and not overthink the mundane crap like what to run on 1st & 1o in september.

genius.

cheater, but genius.