Does pitino own us or is it just a lease ?

[HOFCeluck]

LOL he's 10-6 vs Lappas. Orangehoops.org has every season game by game. This stuff is easy to find out.

 

[SBU72]

The talent levels of these two programs is not so different as to explain the result

REALLY? Louisville played 11 guys, 9 for 8 minutes or more. That's 1 more than SU has AVAILABLE, 2 more that play. After watching both games, tell me which players on SU would you prefer over the Louisville players. I'd take maybe Lydon and Battle.

 

[OttoMets]

REALLY? Louisville played 11 guys, 9 for 8 minutes or more. That's 1 more than SU has AVAILABLE, 2 more that play. After watching both games, tell me which players on SU would you prefer over the Louisville players. I'd take maybe Lydon and Battle.

According to Boeheim, that shouldn't matter. College kids don't get tired. Timeouts every four minutes. Something something something.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I hope Hop mimics Pitino's system when he takes over. The ability to plan multiple defenses with a pretty deep rotation sure would be nice. Louisville always has great guards too.

 

[MSOrange]

LOL he's 10-6 vs Lappas. Orangehoops.org has every season game by game. This stuff is easy to find out.

That's where I always go to make myself look smarter than I am when people start spouting alternative facts on here .

 

[pfister1]

Damn, I was going to post as similar thread but the OP beat me too it.
JB is 5-12 now against Pitino at L'ville.
Has any other coach owned JB as much as Pitino has?

Nobody owns Boeheim like Jamie Dixon owns Boeheim. I think he has a 15-6 record against JB.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Nobody owns Boeheim like Jamie Dixon owns Boeheim. I think he has a 15-6 record against JB.

That is basically the whole list. Jamie Dixon and Rick Pitino. I'm scared for our future post Boeheim. I have a feeling the list is going to get much longer.

 

[billsin01]

That is basically the whole list. Jamie Dixon and Rick Pitino. I'm scared for our future post Boeheim. I have a feeling the list is going to get much longer.

I don't know if that's a dig on Hop or not b/c who knows how he'll do. What I agree with, however, is that replacing legends is something that is extremely tough to do. UNC stumbled post-Dean with Gut/Doherty, Esherick struggled post JTII, Mahoney never won 20 after Carnesecca, Stallings is struggling in a big way post Dixon (maybe not really a legend but 328 wins in 13 years will be hard to top) ... bottom line is that it's not easy. For all the warts JB has -- some are way overblown, others are very real -- his record speaks for itself and anyone who even approaches what he has brought in terms of consistency and continued success would be a huge success.

Not sure people realize that as fun as it is to dream on (insert hot young coaching candidate's name), there is every bit as much of a chance of the program falling off as there is of us taking any sort of step forward. It's the reality.

 

[Fat tire 13]

Nobody owns Boeheim like Jamie Dixon owns Boeheim. I think he has a 15-6 record against JB.

Jay Wright was no slouch either

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't know if that's a dig on Hop or not b/c who knows how he'll do. What I agree with, however, is that replacing legends is something that is extremely tough to do. UNC stumbled post-Dean with Gut/Doherty, Esherick struggled post JTII, Mahoney never won 20 after Carnesecca, Stallings is struggling in a big way post Dixon (maybe not really a legend but 328 wins in 13 years will be hard to top) ... bottom line is that it's not easy. For all the warts JB has -- some are way overblown, others are very real -- his record speaks for itself and anyone who even approaches what he has brought in terms of consistency and continued success would be a huge success.

Not sure people realize that as fun as it is to dream on (insert hot young coaching candidate's name), there is every bit as much of a chance of the program falling off as there is of us taking any sort of step forward. It's the reality.

Replacing Boeheim with an outsider is just as likely to fail. Mike Waters pointed this out on twitter just last week.

 

[billsin01]

Pitino knows how to attack the zone. And he always has talent. So he wins most of the time. The zone works because it's based on playing the percentages. Most teams don't know how to attack it...and fewer have the talent to do it.

This the thing I think people fail to understand with JB -- everything is based on percentages. He was basically playing advanced metrics starting in '96 long before it became vogue to talk about all that stuff. JB has a system that makes things rough on teams offenses pretty consistently. Occasionally there are teams and/or coaches that are ready for it. Buzz Williams was always tough, Dixon, Pitino to name a few. But, and this is the other thing people have to remember, we generally recruit players built for the zone and that has tended to put a bit less focus on quickness and a bit more focus on length -- aggressive athletic teams give us fits.

So some teams/coaches have owned SU/JB for a bit but those have also generally been really, really good coaches/programs. That happens sometimes.

At the end of the day, there are a few blue bloods out there who seem to post 25+ wins in the regular season every year -- Duke/Carolina/Kansas, etc., but for the most part teams have to scratch and claw and stay above the fray to get to 22 or 23 regular season wins. That inherantly means they are losing some games along the way. The key for us, IMO, is to get back to this point of 22 or 23 wins consistently in the regular season -- which means beating st. johns/g'town/uconn and teams like GA Tech on the road. And at that point a loss to a top-10 L'ville team on the road is not really all that big a deal.

 

[Doc5120]

to steal a line from the announcers Pitino game plans to attack your weaknesses, JB does his thing and if you beat it, oh well.

Precisely why Pitino coaches circles around JB.

 

[SBU72]

According to Boeheim, that shouldn't matter. College kids don't get tired. Timeouts every four minutes. Something something something.

Response was not about how much time the kids play but to the talent level for both teams being the same. I would say having 9 kids play 8 mins or more versus 7 kids playing the same would indicate that Louisville has MORE talent. And I also pointed out that I would prefer many of the guys on Louisville over SU. So if you took the starting 5 for both teams, which guys would you prefer. I still say only Lydon and Battle from SU. I have seen where some here would take Mitchell over Battle which in that case makes it 4 to 1 Louisville.

 

[SBU72]

That is basically the whole list. Jamie Dixon and Rick Pitino. I'm scared for our future post Boeheim. I have a feeling the list is going to get much longer.

Basically, it was the two coaches who played muscle up, banging style defense. Pitino's kids don't body up (especially on the outside) as much as they use to but they still use plenty of muscle. Like UNC does on the boards.

 

[OttoMets]

Response was not about how much time the kids play but to the talent level for both teams being the same. I would say having 9 kids play 8 mins or more versus 7 kids playing the same would indicate that Louisville has MORE talent. And I also pointed out that I would prefer many of the guys on Louisville over SU. So if you took the starting 5 for both teams, which guys would you prefer. I still say only Lydon and Battle from SU. I have seen where some here would take Mitchell over Battle which in that case makes it 4 to 1 Louisville.

By virtue of their end-of-bench being better than our situation, I agree with you. Because we've got a short roster, Chukwu's hurt, and apparently Coleman is, too.

Switch starting fives, though, and I fear Pitino would win a bunch of matchups with Gillon/Battle/White/Lydon/Thompson against Louisville's players. He gets a lot out of very average recruits. I said it after the first game and I stand by it: kids like Mahmoud and Dieng are stiffs at Syracuse. At Louisville, they outplay our guys. I have no doubt that a healthy Chukwu would produce for them and I'm equally confident that Mahmoud would've been in the same spot Chukwu was headed in late November: glued to Syracuse's bench.

Long story short, Pitino's a very good coach in terms of player development. I don't know why he doesn't recruit better, but it's impressive that he wins consistently with the players he gets.

 

[Madbiker]

I hope Hop mimics Pitino's system when he takes over. The ability to plan multiple defenses with a pretty deep rotation sure would be nice. Louisville always has great guards too.

Hop is going to do what he has been trained to do for his entire coaching career. Not realistic to think he's going to be in the Pitino mold.

 

[orangecuse]

JB had a 10-6 series edge over Nova when Lappas was coach

I was watching a CBSsportsnetwork game last week on Directv, I believe it was UConn vs. Houston (I think) and Lappas was the analyst for that one. During the broadcast they broke away to show Gillon's thrilling game winner against Duke. Afterwards, Lappas mentioned JB, along with Calhoun and the glory days when he was coaching against them in the Big East. A short time afterwards, CBS showed a stat and I could've sworn that it showed Lappas with a plus .500 record against JB as Lappas made a modest comment about it afterwards. :noidea:

 

[SBU72]

By virtue of their end-of-bench being better than our situation, I agree with you. Because we've got a short roster, Chukwu's hurt, and apparently Coleman is, too.

Switch starting fives, though, and I fear Pitino would win a bunch of matchups with Gillon/Battle/White/Lydon/Thompson against Louisville's players. He gets a lot out of very average recruits. I said it after the first game and I stand by it: kids like Mahmoud and Dieng are stiffs at Syracuse. At Louisville, they outplay our guys. I have no doubt that a healthy Chukwu would produce for them and I'm equally confident that Mahmoud would've been in the same spot Chukwu was headed in late November: glued to Syracuse's bench.

Long story short, Pitino's a very good coach in terms of player development. I don't know why he doesn't recruit better, but it's impressive that he wins consistently with the players he gets.

Your last line just goes to show that you just believe that Pitino is a better coach than JB. I disagree first of all that the talent level of the 2 starting 5's was equal. Second, the facts are Louisville started guys with more experience in the system than SU. They started 2 jr's, 2 so and 1 freshmen. SU started 4 guys new to the system. King for L is a freshmen that was higher rated than Battle by ESPN. So even if the talent level is equal, which I don't agree, then the experience factor alone can make a big difference. And if you think time in the system doesn't mean much just look back at the teams performance in the OCS versus now. There is a very high chance that the team in it's current state could have eliminated at least 2 of not 3 of the awful performances pre conference.

 

[85SUAlum]

Nobody owns Boeheim like Jamie Dixon owns Boeheim. I think he has a 15-6 record against JB.

Ah, yes, Dixon. Just looked it up and officially, he has a 14-6 record over JB (1 other win was over Hop when JB was suspended)
Was glad we wouldn't have to face a Jamie Dixon led Pitt team anymore and we still couldn't beat them at Pitt this year after beating them handily at home.
As for Jay Wright, he has a slight edge over JB, 12-9, so I wouldn't say he owns JB - not like Dixon and Pitino have.

 

[AZOrange]

By virtue of their end-of-bench being better than our situation, I agree with you. Because we've got a short roster, Chukwu's hurt, and apparently Coleman is, too.

Switch starting fives, though, and I fear Pitino would win a bunch of matchups with Gillon/Battle/White/Lydon/Thompson against Louisville's players. He gets a lot out of very average recruits. I said it after the first game and I stand by it: kids like Mahmoud and Dieng are stiffs at Syracuse. At Louisville, they outplay our guys. I have no doubt that a healthy Chukwu would produce for them and I'm equally confident that Mahmoud would've been in the same spot Chukwu was headed in late November: glued to Syracuse's bench.

Long story short, Pitino's a very good coach in terms of player development. I don't know why he doesn't recruit better, but it's impressive that he wins consistently with the players he gets.

Totally agree on your second paragraph

 

[AZOrange]

Your last line just goes to show that you just believe that Pitino is a better coach than JB. I disagree first of all that the talent level of the 2 starting 5's was equal. Second, the facts are Louisville started guys with more experience in the system than SU. They started 2 jr's, 2 so and 1 freshmen. SU started 4 guys new to the system. King for L is a freshmen that was higher rated than Battle by ESPN. So even if the talent level is equal, which I don't agree, then the experience factor alone can make a big difference. And if you think time in the system doesn't mean much just look back at the teams performance in the OCS versus now. There is a very high chance that the team in it's current state could have eliminated at least 2 of not 3 of the awful performances pre conference.

There's nothing wrong admitting Pitino is a better coach than JB. That's not a slight on JB in the slightest.

 

[OrangeDW]

For one no he doesn't have a winning record it is like 9-5 or something like that when Lappas as at Nova. Secondly we did not have equal talent.

Boeheim doesn't have a losing record against Lapas when he was at Nova so you are wrong about that. Also our talent level wasn't superior to Nova. They had a team with Kittles and Lawson that was a 3 seed and then the Tim Thomas team. They probably had slightly more talent that us. Kittles and Thomas were both top 10 picks. I don't remember us having a top 10 pick during this time. Please correct me though if I'm forgetting somebody.

They also had Alvin Williams, who was a solid NBA player. Just because our teams were usually better than them and usually beat them, doesn't mean we had more talent.

That guy couldn't have been more off the mark on that point.

 

[OttoMets]

Your last line just goes to show that you just believe that Pitino is a better coach than JB. I disagree first of all that the talent level of the 2 starting 5's was equal. Second, the facts are Louisville started guys with more experience in the system than SU. They started 2 jr's, 2 so and 1 freshmen. SU started 4 guys new to the system. King for L is a freshmen that was higher rated than Battle by ESPN. So even if the talent level is equal, which I don't agree, then the experience factor alone can make a big difference. And if you think time in the system doesn't mean much just look back at the teams performance in the OCS versus now. There is a very high chance that the team in it's current state could have eliminated at least 2 of not 3 of the awful performances pre conference.

Time in the system is important, no doubt about it.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Who the hell is saying JB is a better coach than Pitino?! That's crazy and not a dig on JB. Pitino is that good. I'm not going to write another thesis on Louisville, Pitino, and what he gets out of his players. The quality of players he brings in as well generally recruiting where SU is in the pecking order, behind Duke/UK/Kansas/Arizona.

Louisville was also playing GREAT last year before they banned themselves. They destroyed us. Guess what? They were starting those two transfers, and a couple of sophs and a frosh. One of those was Onuaku (what happened with that recruitment again for those who know?) who was a soph and declared for the draft.

 

[Lucid]

I was at the game and the thing I noticed most was the Louisville press. On nearly every possession, Syracuse didn't even think about having a shot until there was less than 19 seconds on the shot clock. They needed more time than that. Gillon is just way too methodical for that to work.