Dolezaj

[Waltdods]

So he was lying?

Wait do you really think hakim was 160 when he showed up because that's what boeheim said in an off the cuff riff about a different player 15 years later?

 

[Townie72]

Boeheim is a great coach. I am a huge fan. Syracuse literally could not have gotten luckier.

But ... the idea that everything he says is correct, or an accurate prognostication, is nuts. Boeheim says things. That these things are often wrong doesn't make him less of a coach, but that he is a great coach also doesn't make the things he says unassailable.

"We've got everything. This is the best team I've had in a long time." Is what he said before last years nit season.

"He's the most versatile player this league has seen in a long time." In re Otto porter.

"Next years recruiting class will be the best we've ever had." 2015 (the Malachi/Lydon class, which was very good but nowhere near that good.)

He said something very similar about the 03 class, which ended up a huge disappointment.

On the merits here I would guess Hak added 15-20 lbs in his time at SU. And it looks like he was listed at 219 when he left. So I'm not sure he disproves the idea that md is going to need to bulk up to be something more than a valuable energy/role player.

Well, it the Press Guide says it, it must be right.

And JB said he did add 20 lbs. (He went from 160lbs to 180lbs)

Press guides routinely inflate heights. Why would it have the weights right.

Not everything JB says is right. No one can predict the future. But giving reporters his opinion on the real value of Marek adding 20lbs is not a prognostication. It's a statement based on what he has seen based on 40 years of coach.

The reporters, victims of "group think" on the absolute value of bulking up were told by JB that it's not as important as they (and many of the fans) think. That's worth listening to, I believe.

 

[Townie72]

Wait do you really think hakim was 160 when he showed up because that's what boeheim said in an off the cuff riff about a different player 15 years later?

Of course. I actually do think that.

No matter how you slyly to cheapen the statement with your "off-the-cull rif" qualifier and the suggestion that time has dulled his memory.

You are entitled to your opinion that KB is either a pathological liar or an addled old fool when he says something that you disagree with or that doesn't fit with what you think you understand about college basketball.

 

[Waltdods]

Of course. I actually do think that.

No matter how you slyly to cheapen the statement with your "off-the-cull rif" qualifier and the suggestion that time has dulled his memory.

You are entitled to your opinion that KB is either a pathological liar or an addled old fool when he says something that you disagree with or that doesn't fit with what you think you understand about college basketball.

Obviously that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that he often uses hyperbole (such as that hakim weighed 160 lbs when he arrived) and that his statements are often made for reasons other than providing a fully considered analysis of the situation (such as to avoid a question or talk up his guys, or sometimes to talk down his guys).

And Hak weighed 215 at his pre-draft measurements so, at a bare minimum, we have to concede either that jb was exaggerating how thin he was when he arrived or that he bulked up an awful lot after getting to the orange.

canada hoops: NBA Predraft Camp Measurements 2000-2006

Not everything he says is gospel, nor even meant to be.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Of course. I actually do think that.

No matter how you slyly to cheapen the statement with your "off-the-cull rif" qualifier and the suggestion that time has dulled his memory.

You are entitled to your opinion that KB is either a pathological liar or an addled old fool when he says something that you disagree with or that doesn't fit with what you think you understand about college basketball.

Another year of SU bball, another year of townie posts.

Saddle up.

 

[Townie72]

Obviously that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that he often uses hyperbole (such as that hakim weighed 160 lbs when he arrived) and that his statements are often made for reasons other than providing a fully considered analysis of the situation (such as to avoid a question or talk up his guys, or sometimes to talk down his guys).

And Hak weighed 215 at his pre-draft measurements so, at a bare minimum, we have to concede either that jb was exaggerating how thin he was when he arrived or that he bulked up an awful lot after getting to the orange.

canada hoops: NBA Predraft Camp Measurements 2000-2006

Not everything he says is gospel, nor even meant to be.

2006 is FIVE years after he showed up at 160lbs on the SU campus in 2001.

We know that because JB just told us that in his presser.

Between his statement and your guess of what he weighed based on whatever, I'll stick with JB.

 

[Waltdods]

2006 is FIVE years after he showed up at 160lbs on the SU campus in 2001.

We know that because JB just told us that in his presser.

Between his statement and your guess of what he weighed based on whatever, I'll stick with JB.

This is his measurement from 2005, when he graduated and went into the draft. It's not my guess. It's from the pre-draft camp in June 2005, about two months after Warrick played his last game for SU.
Note that you have also committed yourself to the position that Warrick weighed 180 when he left. As I previously noted, the media guide had him at 219. So every non-JB-statement-at-a-podium-when-making-a-point-about-someone-else-15-years-later piece of evidence either of us has been able to find goes against your certainty.

In miniature this is a stupid debate, but I can't quite get past the "We know that because JB told us that in his presser." That's not how facts work. Boeheim says things that are incorrect all the time, just like we all do. (For example, almost every SWC recap of his radio show notes that he mis-stated a score or a year or something.)

 

[Townie72]

This is his measurement from 2005, when he graduated and went into the draft. It's not my guess. It's from the pre-draft camp in June 2005, about two months after Warrick played his last game for SU.
Note that you have also committed yourself to the position that Warrick weighed 180 when he left. As I previously noted, the media guide had him at 219. So every non-JB-statement-at-a-podium-when-making-a-point-about-someone-else-15-years-later piece of evidence either of us has been able to find goes against your certainty.

In miniature this is a stupid debate, but I can't quite get past the "We know that because JB told us that in his presser." That's not how facts work. Boeheim says things that are incorrect all the time, just like we all do. (For example, almost every SWC recap of his radio show notes that he mis-stated a score or a year or something.)

Who knows the date when Warrick weighed 180lbs on his way from 160lbs in 2001 to 219 in 2005.

How would your own understanding of the ins and outs of college basketball and college basketball strategy compare with JB's? In your opinion, that is.

 

[OttoMets]

Who knows the date when Warrick weighed 180lbs on his way from 160lbs in 2001 to 219 in 2005.

How would your own understanding of the ins and outs of college basketball and college basketball strategy compare with JB's? In your opinion, that is.

You must be exhausted from lugging those goalposts around.

 

[Waltdods]

Who knows the date when Warrick weighed 180lbs on his way from 160lbs in 2001 to 219 in 2005.

How would your own understanding of the ins and outs of college basketball and college basketball strategy compare with JB's? In your opinion, that is.

On your first line, it was you that quoted JB as saying he was 160 when he showed up and 180 when he left, and you that keeps saying that every word that comes out of JB's mouth must be true. Warrick was 215 when he left Syracuse. At a minimum, the second part of JB's sentence is wrong. If the first part of his sentence is true (that Warrick was 160 when he showed up), then he added 55 points in his four years, which greatly undermines the substantive point you and Boeheim were making (that neither HW nor MD needed to bulk up).

On your second line, IT'S MUCH WORSE! JB KNOWS MUCH MORE ABOUT BASKETBALL THAN ME OR ANYONE ON THIS FORUM! That doesn't mean that he's always right, and it certainly doesn't mean that we should imbue his statements - which, again, are often hyperbolic and casual and often made for reasons other than truth - with such talismanic important that even obviously incorrect statements should be treated as facts.

 

[Townie72]

On your first line, it was you that quoted JB as saying he was 160 when he showed up and 180 when he left, and you that keeps saying that every word that comes out of JB's mouth must be true. Warrick was 215 when he left Syracuse. At a minimum, the second part of JB's sentence is wrong. If the first part of his sentence is true (that Warrick was 160 when he showed up), then he added 55 points in his four years, which greatly undermines the substantive point you and Boeheim were making (that neither HW nor MD needed to bulk up).

On your second line, IT'S MUCH WORSE! JB KNOWS MUCH MORE ABOUT BASKETBALL THAN ME OR ANYONE ON THIS FORUM! That doesn't mean that he's always right, and it certainly doesn't mean that we should imbue his statements - which, again, are often hyperbolic and casual and often made for reasons other than truth - with such talismanic important that even obviously incorrect statements should be treated as facts.

Given that as you say, JB knows more, do you think those on here sniping at the guy, pointing out minor inconsistencies, are small in stature?

 

[Townie72]

You must be exhausted from lugging those goalposts around.

It's the opposite end of the argument that JB was wrong about how good the 2016-17 version of the Orange were going to be, therefore nothing he says can be trusted.

That way, random guys in their family room in Clay, NY can be just as credible as JB.

 

[Trueblue25]

Another year of SU bball, another year of townie posts.

Saddle up.

Love it. Missed it. Welcome back.

 

[orangecuse]

Well, one thing is for certain in regards to JB not lying, etc. When he says that we can't play man to man in any capacity whatsoever, not even a smidgen, we know it's true. If only we could get players that had been playing even just a wink of man to man their whole lives in their youth programs, AAU, high school days, etc. If only we could land high level athletes and top 50-100 type players at SU, versus the scraps we get, it may be possible to teach these old dogs some new tricks so that they could learn to play just a tad of man. I'm not sure how all the other 99% of teams out there in the college hoops world are able to find players that are capable of playing man...I wonder how they do that & where they all come from.

 

[jordoo]

This thread needs a title change.

 

[TinyManInside]

It's the opposite end of the argument that JB was wrong about how good the 2016-17 version of the Orange were going to be, therefore nothing he says can be trusted.

Why does everything have to be binary? You're working on a premise that if you don't love Boeheim, then you hate him.

 

[pearl31]

oh townie

 

[SUbear]

How in the world can you possibly take my post as a negative? I listed a whole bunch of positive attributes. I also didn't say he needs to gain weight. I said he needs to get stronger, and hit the weight room. I really think you need to re read what I said. Nuff said. MAREK will be a very good player, and I'm excited to watch his growth and development.

Townie was directly quoting a statement from JBs presser after the game in its entirety, it was not a critique of your post. Not sure how a quote can be interpreted as criticism of your post unless JB new what what you were going to post before you did.
I believe he did forget the quotation marks maybe that's where the confusion lies?

 

[SUbear]

So he was lying?

I do not know Warricks exact weight as a frosh, but I do know he was pretty thin. I think JB has a better idea of his weight than we do.f
A better player to compare Marek too, would be Louis Orr, he was very slight but surprisingly strong for all of that and rebounded as well as anyone we have ever had. He did hav Rosie Bouie as his running mate and Rosie had the bulk.
Louis was 6'8" and weighed 175, pretty close to Mareks measurables.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Listed over 200lbs here his frosh year...highly highly doubt he was only 160.

 

[JazzNC]

Townie was directly quoting a statement from JBs presser after the game in its entirety, it was not a critique of your post. Not sure how a quote can be interpreted as criticism of your post unless JB new what what you were going to post before you did.
I believe he did forget the quotation marks maybe that's where the confusion lies?

Actually he did directly quote my post and stated I shouldn't focus on the negative. Oh well.

 

[maxxyz]

Actually he did directly quote my post and stated I shouldn't focus on the negative. Oh well.

Here is his actual post;

JB from his post-Iona Presser (loosely quoted) "Don't worry about Merek's weight. Warrick weighed 160 when he got here and 180 when he left and was a pretty good player. Merek adding weight might slow him down. I'm not concerned about his weight. Stop dwelling on the negative and open your eyes to the positive. Merek is a very good player with a lot of skills that makes a difference in the game."

He was absolutely quoting Boeheim (although he states he is paraphrasing) and is saying that Boeheim said to reporters to stop being negative. He was not calling you out in any way. If there's anything to be upset about you should be upset that he was misspelling Marek's name.

 

[JazzNC]

Here is his actual post;


He was absolutely quoting Boeheim (although he states he is paraphrasing) and is saying that Boeheim said to reporters to stop being negative. He was not calling you out in any way. If there's anything to be upset about you should be upset that he was misspelling Marek's name.

I guess I get so used to being called negative that I made the mistake of assuming this guy was referring to me. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You must be exhausted from lugging those goalposts around.

This is a great line and I'm going to be using it in the future.

 

[maxxyz]

I guess I get so used to being called negative that I made the mistake of assuming this guy was referring to me. Thank you for clearing that up.

No worries. I respect that you stand up for your position.