Doug Marrone meeting...

[Millhouse]

Goofy

why?

if it's his dream job and the IPF was a big reason why he left, we shouldn't be surprised if he came back eventually

 

[orangenirvana]

You're right GO he would still be here. As I said earlier in the thread he left because of lack of support from the university and there were 2 members of the BOT who just didn like him and were adamant about not spending money on football facilities. They just didn't get it. They didn't get understand his value until he left. Then they realize oh he was right and suddenly they decide to do the IPF.

I don't know what it takes to be awarded a spot on the board of trustees, but I imagine you have to be fairly intelligent and have accomplished quite a bit in life.

Considering that, it amazes me that there can be people on that board who are so stupid.

 

[kingtidge]

Doug did exaggerated the lack of community support issue. He forget s that he had 2 -9 stretch that turned the fans off again. That was on him.

No he didn't.

Do you think Michigan stopped selling-out their 100K+ satdium when RichRod hit the skids??

We have a "fairweather fanbase" (at least for football). If people don't like the product on the field, they stop going to games and we get a 2/3 full dome.

This has become accepted dogma in Cuse football fandom culture.

All you have to do is look at the dome on any given saturday... the scores of empty benches... the padded official attendance #'s, etc... Hell, we're lucky to get half the student section filled much of the time!

Lots of people think this is BS and will often rattle off a number of reasons why they think it's that way and it's not a permanent condition of our program... but they are all just excuses...

I do think DM was naive to think he could change that or that or he should expect different.

Is what it is...

 

[TOL22]

I think F-M raised most of the money from fundraisers for their turf field because I believe taxpayers had turned it down. With taxes so high everywhere and the school cuts, parents and boosters are rightfully filling the gap for these extras. Funny it was probably North Syracuse and Liverpool that helped start the high school athletic facilities war with their state of the are turf fields and athletic complex aided by soda $.

Cherie, I just had this discussion the other day with Bill Orange when he told me about the fund-raiser. If J-D had a Godfather Bragman with ties to Coke, they wouldn't have needed a fundraiser.

I have to say as the mother of a lacrosse player, I'm happy we have the field turf.

 

[GoSU96]

I think Bville is the only large school with a crappy grass field.

 

[orangenirvana]

No he didn't.

Do you think Michigan stopped selling-out their 100K+ satdium when RichRod hit the skids??

We have a "fairweather fanbase" (at least for football). If people don't like the product on the field, they stop going to games and we get a 2/3 full dome.

This has become accepted dogma in Cuse football fandom culture.

All you have to do is look at the dome on any given saturday... the scores of empty benches... the padded official attendance #'s, etc... Hell, we're lucky to get half the student section filled much of the time!

Lots of people think this is BS and will often rattle off a number of reasons why they think it's that way and it's not a permanent condition of our program... but they are all just excuses...

I do think DM was naive to think he could change that or that or he should expect different.

Is what it is...

It's no more fair-weather than any other fanbase on the planet.

The SU Football fanbase is a small fanbase, relatively speaking. That's the issue.

Michigan fills the stadium even when they suck because there are still people who want to go to their games when the people who normally go to games aren't going because they suck. Equally fairweather. Just much bigger. Syracuse football doesn't have that luxury.

 

[kingtidge]

It's no more fair-weather than any other fanbase on the planet.

The SU Football fanbase is a small fanbase, relatively speaking. That's the issue.

Michigan fills the stadium even when they suck because there are still people who want to go to their games when the people who normally go to games aren't going because they suck. Equally fairweather. Just much bigger. Syracuse football doesn't have that luxury.

Not to mention that a lot of the people who went to packed dome games in late 80's/early 90's are now retired down south.

I guess the real question is what is a "fairwether fan" as far as football is concerned?

We have basketball games outselling football games in the same arena... there is something not right about that...

 

[Bill Orange]

I had always heard the same story. We supposedly sold our lights to FM years ago instead of putting them up? never knew the back story. Maybe Bill Orange or OX can chime in. They graduated in the late 40's and may know

Cute.

Now that I have had my Metamucil shake, I'll answer that F-M did not buy their lights from J-D. As for the FieldTurf, they still have a lot of money to raise.

 

[Jeepers]

Not to mention that a lot of the people who went to packed dome games in late 80's/early 90's are now retired down south.

I guess the real question is what is a "fairwether fan" as far as football is concerned?

We have basketball games outselling football games in the same arena... there is something not right about that...

No doubt in my mind that basketball attendance would drastically drop with a few bad seasons.

 

[Orangepace]

We have a "fairweather fanbase" (at least for football). If people don't like the product on the field, they stop going to games and we get a 2/3 full dome.

This has become accepted dogma in Cuse football fandom culture.

It's a fair weather fanbase across the board. Do you think if the basketball team started off 14-12 that they would have broken the record for attendance at the Georgetown game on 2/23? No f-ing way!

 

[RollOrange]

I wish I could name drop like CTO

I can drop names and deuces all over the court just like Devendorf used to.

 

[rocklloyd]

win games and people will come. It's very easy math. It's not the coach, it's not the facilities. win games and most importantly, beat the teams you are supposed to beat.

I get the coach and facilites drive recruiting which could drive winning, but we've had very good teams int he past with a heck of a lot less from a facility stand point. Win games

 

[anglerman]

No he didn't.

Do you think Michigan stopped selling-out their 100K+ satdium when RichRod hit the skids??

We have a "fairweather fanbase" (at least for football). If people don't like the product on the field, they stop going to games and we get a 2/3 full dome.

This has become accepted dogma in Cuse football fandom culture.

All you have to do is look at the dome on any given saturday... the scores of empty benches... the padded official attendance #'s, etc... Hell, we're lucky to get half the student section filled much of the time!

Lots of people think this is BS and will often rattle off a number of reasons why they think it's that way and it's not a permanent condition of our program... but they are all just excuses...

I do think DM was naive to think he could change that or that or he should expect different.

Is what it is...

SU had 10 years of bad football going back to the last of the coach P era. The GROB years were the worst in the history of the program. They weren't just bad they were hopeless. The fan base felt there was a product that was t worth watching and they were right

Doug did a good job turning it around but it wasn't until those last 6 games of 2012 that people really began to take notice. Even the causal fan was paying attention again. I think 2013 is the year you see the fans return to the dome. Both for a better product and also competition with schools that have big time reputations.

 

[javadoc]

SU had 10 years of bad football going back to the last of the coach P era. The GROB years were the worst in the history of the program. They weren't just bad they were hopeless. The fan base felt there was a product that was t worth watching and they were right

Doug did a good job turning it around but it wasn't until those last 6 games of 2012 that people really began to take notice. Even the causal fan was paying attention again. I think 2013 is the year you see the fans return to the dome. Both for a better product and also competition with schools that have big time reputations.

Chiming in with my canonical response. Note the bolded items - it's not a product. It's your home town (and home state) team. To the extent that a "fan base" regards the team as a product, its fickleness and quality of support decline.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Chiming in with my canonical response. Note the bolded items - it's not a product. It's your home town (and home state) team. To the extent that a "fan base" regards the team as a product, its fickleness and quality of support decline.

See, I think viewing it as a product is the only way to look at it if you want to increase your fanbase. The group that supports through thick and thin because it's the home town team, that groups static for the most part, not variable. The variable group is the one you want if the static group can't fill the stadium on its own. We know our static group isn't, so we're left with appeals to the variable group, and that group needs to feel confident that the entertainment choice they're making is better than the alternatives. The point anglerman was making is that for a long time SU football was an objectively inferior entertainment choice, but with the new conference and the momentum and excitement over how we ended the season, the choice is now starting to look a lot better.

It's fragile though.

 

[javadoc]

See, I think viewing it as a product is the only way to look at it if you want to increase your fanbase. The group that supports through thick and thin because it's the home town team, that groups static for the most part, not variable. The variable group is the one you want if the static group can't fill the stadium on its own. We know our static group isn't, so we're left with appeals to the variable group, and that group needs to feel confident that the entertainment choice they're making is better than the alternatives. The point anglerman was making is that for a long time SU football was an objectively inferior entertainment choice, but with the new conference and the momentum and excitement over how we ended the season, the choice is now starting to look a lot better.

It's fragile though.

I understand completely what you and angler are saying, but it shows why it is so hard to fill the Dome for football. Football is not entertainment, especially not college football. Movies are entertainment, concerts, theater, hiking, playing neighborhood hoops or such. Watching TV. College football is a tribal exercise in religious combat, it's carrying off a neighboring city-state's god in ignominy.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I understand completely what you and angler are saying, but it shows why it is so hard to fill the Dome for football. Football is not entertainment, especially not college football. Movies are entertainment, concerts, theater, hiking, playing neighborhood hoops or such. Watching TV. College football is a tribal exercise in religious combat, it's carrying off a neighboring city-state's god in ignominy.

I think we're just talking about different market segments. For some it's not about entertainment, it's about the tribal exercise. For some it's not about tribal exercise at all, it's about entertainment. The tribe group has shown they aren't going anywhere. The entertainment group needs some work.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I can drop names and deuces all over the court just like Devendorf used to.

I hope that I can someday meet CTO... so that I can name drop that I met CTO.

 

[anglerman]

I

I understand completely what you and angler are saying, but it shows why it is so hard to fill the Dome for football. Football is not entertainment, especially not college football. Movies are entertainment, concerts, theater, hiking, playing neighborhood hoops or such. Watching TV. College football is a tribal exercise in religious combat, it's carrying off a neighboring city-state's god in ignominy.

I'm a die hard and I say it was simply brutal to watch for many years. Wether you call it a product or tribal exercise it wasn't enjoyable going to the dome. The team was very bad. It seemed they were hopeless. I know I even thought that for a while. I remember leaving by mid 3rd quarter during the GROB years. It was awful. It takes time to come back from that and change the mindset. Last year SU had a good football team. Both sides of the ball for the first time in more than a decade. It was down right exciting at times When was the last time we could say that?

 

[cto]

I hope that I can someday meet CTO... so that I can name drop that I met CTO.

Hey, it's pretty easy. Just show up at the @Georgetown game, the BET or any place we play in the NCAA's. That's how most people here have met me. . But you'll probably be disappointed. I'm just another non-descript-looking, middle-aged woman who probably drinks too much pinot noir.

 

[mountaincuse]

I hope that I can someday meet CTO... so that I can name drop that I met CTO.

Me too. Though I name drop now: "so, I was "talking" to a former BOT member and a few insiders last night..."

Not really, sorta.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Hey, it's pretty easy. Just show up at the @Georgetown game, the BET or any place we play in the NCAA's. That's how most people here have met me. . But you'll probably be disappointed. I'm just another non-descript-looking, middle-aged woman who probably drinks too much pinot noir.

They wouldn't let me down into your section... I recall they tried to even not let you into your section @ UConn if not for a BMK intervention.

 

[CuseOnly]

Doug did exaggerated the lack of community support issue. He forget s that he had 2 -9 stretch that turned the fans off again. That was on him.

Doug Never went 2-9, exactly who are you talking about exactly.

4-8
8-4
5-7
8-4

 

[cto]

They wouldn't let me down into your section... I recall they tried to even not let you into your section @ UConn if not for a BMK intervention.

That's pretty funny -- and true -- regarding BMK. However, you missed a clue. Most folks here have met me in BARS... before and after games. If we did a roll-call of folks I've met that way, it might rival in size a village phone directory.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Doug Never went 2-9, exactly who are you talking about exactly.

4-8
8-4
5-7
8-4

Over his past 2 seasons, 5-7 and 8-5 there is a 2-9 spell bridging the 2 seasons aka 5-2, 2-9, 6-1. He ended 2011 0-5 and started 2012 2-4.