Dumas says Mali Gone

[RandygoCuse]

. IMO, he makes A LOT more money in the long run if he comes back for another year. He could be a lottery pick next year

I think that's the question. How much more can you make if you stay another year in school (thus forfeiting a year of salary) and improve your draft status? Does anyone know the different salaries for different draft slots?

 

[two3zone]

Didn't you post a link to the Mike Rice video and allude to the horrific working conditions college players must endure?

So which is it? College is fun or college is a grind where the players are constantly abused and taken advantage.

You keep contradicting yourself and changing your narrative. It's impossible to have a logical debate with someone who does this.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. I think it depends on the situation and I've constantly said that throughout this thread that seems to be ignored. I write something out and you among others take one sentence of what I say and ignore everything else. College athletes are absolutely taken advantage of, they generate millions/billions of dollars for their respective schools and the NCAA and don't get a nickle in return. A scholarship to a university is nice and all but it's pennies on the dollar. I've never once made any confusion about that or anything else.

I've pretty much said this in every post I've made:

1. Mali should stay because he has more to gain than most players when it comes to improving his stock.
2. Most players should cash out, strike when the iron is hot and take the money and run.
3. 90% or more college basketball players want to play professionally and while they love college and are enjoying it while they're there, they'd rather play at a higher level and get paid.

 

[Dave85]

This kind of "what if" discussion must help some people wind down from the season.

But it's essentially an insipid exercise given that:

1. We don't know who is coming back (especially Lydon and Malachi)
2. We don't know who is coming in (Transfers)
3. We don't know who might transfer out.
4. We don't know how much improvement there is going to be in the players that come back (especially Howard, Roberson and Coleman)
5. We don't know how good the incoming freshman are going to be. We have had some pleasant and unpleasant surprises in the past few years.
6. We aren't really sure who the coach is going to be. Boeheim appears to have a "Not more than two years" agreement. But that means he could decide to hand over the reins earlier. Maybe to avoid giving Hopkins a team with a near empty cabinet that could occur after next season.

So what we are left with is projections based on "If this happens. And this happens. And this happens. And this happens. And if the good Lord's willing and the creeks don't rise".

Seems to me that given all we don't know, that any projections that are made have like a 1% chance of being even close.

7. How hot the cheerleaders will be.

Oh man, it's kind of overwhelming! I'm going with the cheerleaders will be very competitive.

 

[Dave85]

I'm not contradicting myself at all. I think it depends on the situation and I've constantly said that throughout this thread that seems to be ignored. I write something out and you among others take one sentence of what I say and ignore everything else. College athletes are absolutely taken advantage of, they generate millions/billions of dollars for their respective schools and the NCAA and don't get a nickle in return. A scholarship to a university is nice and all but it's pennies on the dollar. I've never once made any confusion about that or anything else.

I've pretty much said this in every post I've made:

1. Mali should stay because he has more to gain than most players when it comes to improving his stock.
2. Most players should cash out, strike when the iron is hot and take the money and run.
3. 90% or more college basketball players want to play professionally and while they love college and are enjoying it while they're there, they'd rather play at a higher level and get paid.

I agree with who want's to be a slave part. The NCAA should allow fixed rate stipend for college athletes so they do not have to worrying about food, clothing, and transportation. It's really a ridiculous sham and scam.

 

[two3zone]

I agree with who want's to be a slave part. The NCAA should allow fixed rate stipend for college athletes so they do not have to worrying about food, clothing, and transportation. It's really a ridiculous sham and scam.

Probably 5 years ago I was against college players getting paid but a few quotes throughout the years really changed my mind about it.

One was Napier from Uconn saying that he goes to bed hungry at times, Jalen Rose at practice getting hounded by his coach while he was worried about his mom who just had her power turned off, and then another by Richard Sherman about the grinds of being a college athlete. Wake up, eat, go to class, go to team meetings, try to get a bite to eat, watch videos, practice, eat dinner, do whatever school work before he went to bed then do the same thing the next day.

These guys have such a grind day in and day out and have to follow rules that NO other student at the University has to follow, I don't think it's right.

 

[orangenirvana]

If that is a certainty, NBA teams are aware of that, and they would love to land a lotto pick with a selection towards the end of the 1st round.

But from Richardson's perspective, which option is more financially advantageous: four years on a contract from 2016-2020 as the #27 overall pick, or four years on a contract from 2017-2021 as the #7 overall pick?

 

[two3zone]

But from Richardson's perspective, which option is more financially advantageous: four years on a contract from 2016-2020 as the #27 overall pick, or four years on a contract from 2017-2021 as the #7 overall pick?

If he knew he was going to be the #7 overall pick a year later then I think him and any other guy would stay. That's the problem, the player, the coaches, the scouts, the family, the agents don't have any idea what is going to happen in a year.

 

[rrlbees]

I agree with who want's to be a slave part. The NCAA should allow fixed rate stipend for college athletes so they do not have to worrying about food, clothing, and transportation. It's really a ridiculous sham and scam.

They changed it so that a scholarship now covers the cost of attendance.

 

[Fly Rodder]

And if the NBA teams really knew, or were really confident that Player X would go from #32 to a #7 pick the next year, the teams picking from say 25 onward would take him this year.

 

[orangenirvana]

If he knew he was going to be the #7 overall pick a year later then I think him and any other guy would stay. That's the problem, the player, the coaches, the scouts, the family, the agents don't have any idea what is going to happen in a year.

Depends on how confident the player is in himself and the team he's returning to as well.

If the college team is expected to be good and he is going to be showcased and he has confidence in his individual ability to improve then his profit potential is likely greater by returning to school.

If he feels he's maximized his college production and draft stock and the team is losing a bunch of players then it's better to skip school.

 

[orangenirvana]

But from Richardson's perspective, which option is more financially advantageous: four years on a contract from 2016-2020 as the #27 overall pick, or four years on a contract from 2017-2021 as the #7 overall pick?

If this website is accurate...

#27 pick 2015-16 salary

Year 1: $963,000
Year 2: $1,006,400
Year 3: $1,049,700
Year 4 (optional): $1,855,901
Year 5 (optional): $2,752,301
TOTAL: $7,627,302

#7 overall pick salary 2015-16

Year 1: $2,585,200
Year 2: $2,701,500
Year 3: 2,817,900
Year 4 (optional): $3,578,733
Year 5 (optional): $4,799,081
TOTAL: $16,482,414

 

[two3zone]

Depends on how confident the player is in himself and the team he's returning to as well.

If the college team is expected to be good and he is going to be showcased and he has confidence in his individual ability to improve then his profit potential is likely greater by returning to school.

If he feels he's maximized his college production and draft stock and the team is losing a bunch of players then it's better to skip school.

If Mali only improves slightly or is around the same numbers as last year he goes from 7.6 mil to the league minimum or euro pay.

You're making it sound like there is zero risk in returning and he's automatically punching a lottery ticket if he stays a year and it's simply not true.

 

[dasher]

If Mali only improves slightly or is around the same numbers as last year he goes from 7.6 mil to the league minimum or euro pay.

You're making it sound like there is zero risk in returning and he's automatically punching a lottery ticket if he stays a year and it's simply not true.

LOL It seems really important to you that Mali take the money and leave. Seems kind of strange.

 

[two3zone]

LOL It seems really important to you that Mali take the money and leave. Seems kind of strange.

I can't take your post seriously at all as I've stated at least 5 times I think he should stay in this topic. But that doesn't fit your agenda does it?

Becoming a top 10 pick isn't easy as some think around here.

 

[pearl31]

If Mali only improves slightly or is around the same numbers as last year he goes from 7.6 mil to the league minimum or euro pay.

You're making it sound like there is zero risk in returning and he's automatically punching a lottery ticket if he stays a year and it's simply not true.

But you're making it sound like he would suddenly lose out on the $ (7.6 mil) if he stays at the same (or slightly better) draft spot a year later - how does that work??

 

[dasher]

I can't take your post seriously at all as I've stated at least 5 times I think he should stay in this topic. But that doesn't fit your agenda does it?

Becoming a top 10 pick isn't easy as some think around here.

Well, others take it seriously. And as for my agenda. I wonder what that may be. I have been a Syracuse fan for over 40 years. I've seen guys leave early many times before. Doesn't change my life one bit. The person with the agenda, is you my friend. And more and more people are seeing that.

 

[two3zone]

Well, others take it seriously. And as for my agenda. I wonder what that may be. I have been a Syracuse fan for over 40 years. I've seen guys leave early many times before. Doesn't change my life one bit. The person with the agenda, is you my friend. And more and more people are seeing that.

I have zero agenda. Other than enjoying watching the games played and coming on here to chat none of this has any baring on my life.

I'm curious. What's my agenda since you have all the answers?

 

[two3zone]

LOL It seems really important to you that Mali take the money and leave. Seems kind of strange.

I never once said I think Mali should leave. Feel free to quote a post where I said as such. Don't get lost in all the posts where I said he should stay.

If you choose not to read there isn't really much I can say other than you trying to put words in my mouth that I never said.

 

[dasher]

I have zero agenda. Other than enjoying watching the games played and coming on here to chat none of this has any baring on my life.

I'm curious. What's my agenda since you have all the answers?

Only you know your agenda for sure. But it sure doesn't seem that you seem all that pleased when the Orange are successful.

 

[cuse522]

If this website is accurate...

#27 pick 2015-16 salary

Year 1: $963,000
Year 2: $1,006,400
Year 3: $1,049,700
Year 4 (optional): $1,855,901
Year 5 (optional): $2,752,301
TOTAL: $7,627,302

#7 overall pick salary 2015-16

Year 1: $2,585,200
Year 2: $2,701,500
Year 3: 2,817,900
Year 4 (optional): $3,578,733
Year 5 (optional): $4,799,081
TOTAL: $16,482,414

The first three is what really matters, though, so it's basically 3M at #27 vs. 8.1M at #7.

Here's why he should come back, from a pure $EV perspective. If it was 50% #7 pick vs. 50% undrafted, the EV of waiting would be over $4M. If he was 100% to go at #27 the EV of coming out would be 3M. In reality, it's not like it's lottery or total bust, it's not like coming out is a slam dunk to go in the first, things can happen and the probabilities can be complex. Of course, there is risk involved in coming back, and the decisions being made are over amounts of money that are obviously enormous to these guys. Most people would take a more sure 3M than a 50-50 8M, even though it's not the proper EV decision.

 

[Fly Rodder]

This thread is a trainwreck.

 

[Knicks411]

The first three is what really matters, though, so it's basically 3M at #27 vs. 8.1M at #7.

Here's why he should come back, from a pure $EV perspective. If it was 50% #7 pick vs. 50% undrafted, the EV of waiting would be over $4M. If he was 100% to go at #27 the EV of coming out would be 3M. In reality, it's not like it's lottery or total bust, it's not like coming out is a slam dunk to go in the first, things can happen and the probabilities can be complex. Of course, there is risk involved in coming back, and the decisions being made are over amounts of money that are obviously enormous to these guys. Most people would take a more sure 3M than a 50-50 8M, even though it's not the proper EV decision.

Yeah, it's a lot easier to do the math and say the EV is higher in the second one, but it's a lot harder to turn down an actual guaranteed $3 million, which is close to life changing money.

That's more of a general comment than a Malachi comment. You see it in baseball a lot; guys sign deals early in their career where they delay FA a few years but are guaranteed upwards of $30 million.

If this website is accurate...

#27 pick 2015-16 salary

Year 1: $963,000
Year 2: $1,006,400
Year 3: $1,049,700
Year 4 (optional): $1,855,901
Year 5 (optional): $2,752,301
TOTAL: $7,627,302

#7 overall pick salary 2015-16

Year 1: $2,585,200
Year 2: $2,701,500
Year 3: 2,817,900
Year 4 (optional): $3,578,733
Year 5 (optional): $4,799,081
TOTAL: $16,482,414

That's a little off. The first 2 years of a first round rookie deal are guaranteed, the second two are options. In reality, very few players don't have the options picked up because of how relatively cheap they are.

 

[two3zone]

Only you know your agenda for sure. But it sure doesn't seem that you seem all that pleased when the Orange are successful.

What evidence do you have to come to that conclusion? I've been nothing but ecstatic about this squads run and was nothing but pumped the entire time and gave praise to our team after our loss.

If you really believe what you just wrote I suggest you just click my user name and go through my posts, but you probably wont do that because you'll realize that you have no clue what you're talking about and you don't want to be wrong even though you 100% are.

 

[Alsacs]

This logic that Malachi has to go just wrong. He won't play next year if he goes to the NBA. He will be an upside pick for 3 years down the road.

If he goes to the Draft he could get drafted 18-30 in the NBA Draft.

Look at the 18-30 picks last year.

Sam Dekker(Jr.)- 9GP, 2PPG has been injured and been in the NBDL the most of the season
Jerian Grant(Sr.) 72 GP, 5PPG, 2.2 APG Okay player for a bad team.
Delon Wright (Sr.) 24 GP, 2.4 PPG. 1.1RPG has been in the NBDL most of the season.
Justin Anderson(Jr.) 50 GP, 3.4 PPG, 2.1 RPG has been up and down from the D-League.
Bobby Portis(So.) 75 GP, 6.8 PPG, 5.1 RPG. This guy has been one of the best rookies as well.
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson(Fr.) 25 GP, 5.2 PPG 5.4 RPG. He has been injured and was on an awful Nets team.
Tyus Jones (Fr.) 30 GP, 4.1 PPG, 2.3 APG. Has been up and down from the D-League.
Jarrell Martin (So.) 22 GP. 5.4 PPG, 2.4 RPG. Has been up and down from the D-League.
Larry Nance Jr. (Sr.) 58 GP, 5.6ppg, 5.0 RPG. Has been average
R.J. Hunter (Jr.) 32 GP, 2.5PPG, 1.0 RPG. Has been up and down from the D-League
Chris McCollough(Fr.) 19 GP 3.5 PPG, 1.1 RPG. Was hurt and has done nothing
Kevon Looney(Fr.) 5GP. Been injured and buried on the Warriors.


If Malachi leaves he better be ready for the D-League. If he wants to get paid go ahead and I support him but he isn't ready.

 

[two3zone]

This logic that Malachi has to go just wrong. He won't play next year if he goes to the NBA. He will be an upside pick for 3 years down the road.

I don't think anybody around here has said he has to go.