Eli Manning

[KaiserUEO]

The idea that Eli Manning is BETTER than Rivers is so far beyond absurd that you should permanently disqualify yourself from talking about Quarterbacks. My god, in an entire different tier than Rivers? That is utterly hilarious fanboy stuff.

Jim Plunkett is clearly one of the 10 best QBs of all-time based on his two Super Bowl wins. There are so many variables at play with that stuff that in most instances it's silly to use that as a basis for your argument. Unless you're exclusively talking about whether that bump for SB wins (which is fair play) gets someone into the HOF.

Plunkett is barely in the top 100 QBs of all time, he's only there because of his wins.

I like rivers, think he's really good, if you are going off my ranking from 2 months ago, I kept him below the other guys because yes, no ring.

If you are playing it straight, fine bump him to the 3s.

We could also possibly slide luck down to the 2s, making that group all tier 2.

Regardless, I stand behind my groups and general principal.

 

[Alsacs]

Plunkett is barely in the top 100 QBs of all time, he's only there because of his wins.

I like rivers, think he's really good, if you are going off my ranking from 2 months ago, I kept him below the other guys because yes, no ring.

If you are playing it straight, fine bump him to the 3s.

We could also possibly slide luck down to the 2s, making that group all tier 2.

Regardless, I stand behind my groups and general principal.

Peyton should be taken out of the top tier. That guy is cooked. He is an alltime great QB but Peyton Manning is actually holding back the Broncos this year.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Peyton should be taken out of the top tier. That guy is cooked. He is an alltime great QB but Peyton Manning is actually holding back the Broncos this year.

was talking to a coworker today at lunch and he was saying the same thing and ive also heard Francesa allude to that. admittingly ive only really seen him way back in week 2 on that thursday comback v the chiefs and either he was fine then or i really wasnt paying attention and was blinded by the comeback. after they bye theyre on sunday night v the pack, guess we all will get to see whats up then.

ive also got another buddy who keeps telling me that the next hit peyton takes will be his last, could paralyze him and hes been nothing but a shell of himself since he came back anyway.

sadly, i kinda believe that, yet it seems to work for him and good lord theyre 6-0 so this will be interesting for sure.

 

[orange79]

ive also got another buddy who keeps telling me that the next hit peyton takes will be his last, could paralyze him and hes been nothing but a shell of himself since he came back anyway.

This is what scares me every time I see him play. He seems so slow (well, slower than usual), immobile (well, immobler than usual), his passes have no zip. Based on what I have read of his injury/condition, I know for sure I wouldn't be out there. I hope he makes it through the season and hangs 'em up.

 

[Alsacs]

Peyton is ranked 33rd out of 34 qualifying QBs(only Ryan Mallett is below him) in passer rating. He has 7 TDs and 10 INTs. The Denver D has scored 4 TDs including 3 game winning scores(Baltimore, Kansas City, Oakland) and the D bailed him out against Minnesota and Cleveland.

Peyton can't throw the ball accurately to his left anymore. It is just hard physically to have the zip on those passes. He throws ducks now. He had 1 good throw against Cleveland that a safety overplayed and turned a 25 yard pass into a 75 yard TD.

If Peyton were average right now the Broncos would be scary. He is holding them back from competing for a SB. Teams with intelligence will overplay these short passes and force Manning to throw 20 yard posts which he will have a hard time completing.

What sucks for Peyton is that he has struggled without bad weather and the wind it is going to get worse.

 

[ssbriefcase]

was talking to a coworker today at lunch and he was saying the same thing and ive also heard Francesa allude to that. admittingly ive only really seen him way back in week 2 on that thursday comback v the chiefs and either he was fine then or i really wasnt paying attention and was blinded by the comeback. after they bye theyre on sunday night v the pack, guess we all will get to see whats up then.

ive also got another buddy who keeps telling me that the next hit peyton takes will be his last, could paralyze him and hes been nothing but a shell of himself since he came back anyway.

sadly, i kinda believe that, yet it seems to work for him and good lord theyre 6-0 so this will be interesting for sure.

I know there's no way possible he's talking since he's come back off of his last neck surgery and joined the Broncos???

 

[ssbriefcase]

Look, I think people really are forgetting that Manning coming off of his 4th neck surgery and making it back to the field was a minor miracle in itself. When he was up at Duke training after the last surgery and before visiting teams to see who he'd sign with, he literally couldn't throw the ball 10 yards! His dad and brothers were there watching and thought he might be done. Btw, he doesn't have the type of injury that "one more hit and you could be paralyzed". He said if he was told that, he would've never came back.

Fast forward to 2013. With all the previous mentioned and some feeling gone in his fingers, he shattered NFL records. Breaking the Patriots scoring record from '07 (589) with 606. Denver had 76 td's besting the pats by 1. NFL record 3 games with over 50 points, stood since 1969. He shattered Brady's record of 50 td's with 55. He broke Brees record from '11, by 1 yard for most yards in a season with 5,477. Then he led his team to the SB. With the back story and the records, an easy argument could be made he had the best season by a football player in the history of the game.

Most sane Bronco fans only expected to get one good season out of him, 2 would be a bonus. In comes Kubiak after the lay down in the SB to mold the Broncos more after the Ravens than the Pats. Trying to get Peyton to learn a new O behind a very inexperienced line, and be under center or pistol, proved too difficult. He can't ever have his back to the defense which both of those do. He has 0 from the slot, 0 from TE, the staff has to help get some personnel in there to solve that.

It's a perfect week to have a bye for these Broncos. Kubiak, Elway and Manning are some of the smartest football minds out there. They will make adjustments with the week off. They might just turn the O back to Manning and go shotgun only and let him do what he knows best and ride off into the sunset. Manning is slower and has issues, not 1 sane person would argue otherwise. But he has his football mind, and will make whatever adjustments he can. He totally retooled his game in '12 to make up for his limitations. And when we've needed drives at the end of games he's produced to where he's still our best option at qb right now. And at the end of the day it might not be enough. But I'm not panicking when my team is 6-0 and has the D we do. Like I've said before, we play a whose who of great football teams the 2nd half of the season and I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Ghost]

Plunkett is barely in the top 100 QBs of all time, he's only there because of his wins.

I like rivers, think he's really good, if you are going off my ranking from 2 months ago, I kept him below the other guys because yes, no ring.

If you are playing it straight, fine bump him to the 3s.

We could also possibly slide luck down to the 2s, making that group all tier 2.

Regardless, I stand behind my groups and general principal.

you would literally have to have never watched football in your LIFE to have Rivers in a group with Flacco. Not to be harsh, but it's true. 2 months ago or not. SB rings can't possibly matter that much - Rivers likely would have been in one but for a safety intercepting a pass and choosing to return it and fumble instead of downing it allowing the Chargers to run out the clock. Valuing the SB that much means Plunkett is a an all-time great.

 

[KaiserUEO]

you would literally have to have never watched football in your LIFE to have Rivers in a group with Flacco. Not to be harsh, but it's true. 2 months ago or not. SB rings can't possibly matter that much - Rivers likely would have been in one but for a safety intercepting a pass and choosing to return it and fumble instead of downing it allowing the Chargers to run out the clock. Valuing the SB that much means Plunkett is a an all-time great.

ok, mr rivers.

enjoy.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Valuing the SB that much means Plunkett is a an all-time great.

People who think winning a Super Bowl automatically makes one better than every QB whom has not won a Super Bowl lack critical thinking skills. There is no point in discussing sports with them unless one is in a padded room.

 

[orange79]

People who think winning a Super Bowl automatically makes one better than every QB whom has not won a Super Bowl lack critical thinking skills. There is no point in discussing sports with them unless one is in a padded room.

If we're such huge idiots, why are you discussing this with us?

 

[KaiserUEO]

If we're such huge idiots, why are you discussing this with us?

the best is, nobody made that argument.

just let him be.

he should join cali in make believe world. apparently, according to cali...Tex is okaying a trade by the Yankees.

hes got 1 year left and the switch hitter is coming off a 30 HR, gold glove caliber season.

alllllriiigghhhty then.

 

[donniesyracuse]

the best is, nobody made that argument.

just let him be.

he should join cali in make believe world. apparently, according to cali...Tex is okaying a trade by the Yankees.

hes got 1 year left and the switch hitter is coming off a 30 HR, gold glove caliber season.

alllllriiigghhhty then.

Right, Eli's rings haven't been mentioned multiple times in this thread. Was it not the reason cited why he is better than Rivers and so much better than Romo? Somebody even posted that Eli was better than Peyton. Hopefully, that person was being sarcastic. The "Eli for the HOF" advocates have the "rings trump all" mentality.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Right, Eli's rings haven't been mentioned multiple times in this thread. Was it not the reason cited why he is better than Rivers and so much better than Romo? Somebody even posted that Eli was better than Peyton. Hopefully, that person was being sarcastic. The "Eli for the HOF" advocates have the "rings trump all" mentality.

Eli will be in the HOF and his rings are certainly a HUGE reason why.

you HAVE to include them.

its the reason why people ever talk about Plunkett, then they look at the stats and rightfully dismiss him.

no rings is the only knock on Marino, but then they look at the stats and rightfully triumph him.

romo has a small body of work and chokes in the playoffs. no HOF.

rivers, will likely get in, but a ring or at least an appearance and the discussion ends.

rings do not 'trump all', but in football if you dont recognize that they are the 800lb gorilla in the room, then theres no hope for you.

 

[Ghost]

People who think winning a Super Bowl automatically makes one better than every QB whom has not won a Super Bowl lack critical thinking skills. There is no point in discussing sports with them unless one is in a padded room.

yeah, you would think enough pedestrian QB's have won Super Bowls by now that people could divorce themselves from such an silly argument... Alas, it's not the case.

 

[Ghost]

ok, mr rivers.

enjoy.

ok, Ms. Manning.

 

[Bayside44]

yeah, you would think enough pedestrian QB's have won Super Bowls by now that people could divorce themselves from such an silly argument... Alas, it's not the case.

Being on teams that won and being the QB that won are two different things.

 

[Ghost]

Eli will be in the HOF and his rings are certainly a HUGE reason why.

you HAVE to include them.

its the reason why people ever talk about Plunkett, then they look at the stats and rightfully dismiss him.

no rings is the only knock on Marino, but then they look at the stats and rightfully triumph him.

romo has a small body of work and chokes in the playoffs. no HOF.

rivers, will likely get in, but a ring or at least an appearance and the discussion ends.

rings do not 'trump all', but in football if you dont recognize that they are the 800lb gorilla in the room, then theres no hope for you.

Are we arguing HOFer though alone? I don't know that anyone would dispute that the rings give Eli a huge bump in HOF consideration. It doesn't make him a better QB though. Just as it wouldn't make Plunkett any better than he actually was. Romo is certainly a better QB than Eli. Rings or not.

 

[Ghost]

Being on teams that won and being the QB that won are two different things.

Thats why Jim Plunkett is a GOAT. Sick playoff stats during an Era when CBs could still molest a WR.

 

[KaiserUEO]

just for shlits and giggles for those of you scoring at home, luck has thrown more INTs per season than Eli in 3 of the last 4 years (including this one).

 

[Alsacs]

just for shlits and giggles for those of you scoring at home, luck has thrown more INTs per season than Eli in 3 of the last 4 years (including this one).

How many of those years has Eli Manning made the playoffs and how many have Andrew Luck?

Listen Eli is a QB that you can with. In today's NFL that is the most important thing for your team to win but I think Andrew Luck is a better QB now and will be in the future as well.

Luck has a clown owner and horrible coaching staff/GM. Eli has a stability in all 3 of those places. I really hope Luck could move on from Indy and to a real managed team.

 

[KaiserUEO]

How many of those years has Eli Manning made the playoffs and how many have Andrew Luck?

Listen Eli is a QB that you can with. In today's NFL that is the most important thing for your team to win but I think Andrew Luck is a better QB now and will be in the future as well.

Luck has a clown owner and horrible coaching staff/GM. Eli has a stability in all 3 of those places. I really hope Luck could move on from Indy and to a real managed team.

the NFC East is always infinitly better than the AFC South.

and yes, the last 2 years have been tough on the Giants, but a perfect storm is the only thing which kept them out of the playoffs in 2012.

im just saying the knock on Eli is INTs, but its a weak knock.

 

[Alsacs]

Eli Manning and Joe Flacco are the same type of QBs. Above average in the regular season. Their teams are competitive every year but get them into the playoffs and they up their games.

I wouldn't want to face Flacco or Eli in the postseason they win. They don't scare me in the regular season though.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Eli Manning and Joe Flacco are the same type of QBs. Above average in the regular season. Their teams are competitive every year but get them into the playoffs and they up their games.

I wouldn't want to face Flacco or Eli in the postseason they win. They don't scare me in the regular season though.

i get your point and its a good one, but Eli is much better than Flacco.

Eli is also a bit of a gunslinger who loves the deep ball...or at least he did before McAdoo got him doing all these quick drop throws that all the other QBs do to make their rating higher.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'd take Luck in the present and the future, but man is he a mess right now. He's not playing like a top 5 guy. I know a part of it is the cast surrounding him, but Hasselbeck looked better running that offense than he was. The Saints played one of their more conservative game plans and the game was just handed to them to win.

The Giants were lucky to win yesterday. And they didn't win because of Eli. Thank the special teams and Matt Cassel. The Cowboys may have been better off sticking with Weeden. He was better than what Cassel showed.

QB play in the NFL is a mess right now. It's the reason so many of these teams stink. You have some guys that are pretty good, but through injury or ineffectiveness, it's a nightmare watching some of these games

Brady is playing on a level I've never seen out of anyone. Then you have Rodgers, Dalton, Palmer, Newton, and Brees. Ryan Fitzpatrick is playing better than both Mannings this year. After that the QB position stinks this year, and is the reason so many of these games are unwatchable.