Ennis Nba tidbit

[two3zone]

Without knowing anything about Ennis and his financial situation, the Grant family and their money is readily accessible. Horace earned 67 mil and Harvey earned 23 mil. Unless our Grant has a bloodlust to make up for his dad's failure compared to his uncle, he has far less incentive to go pro than Ennis, who appears to be middle class. Do millionaire's sons care less about future millions than a poor mans son?

And just an FYI, Ennis drives a nicer car than Grant.

 

[Alsacs]

Without knowing anything about Ennis and his financial situation, the Grant family and their money is readily accessible. Horace earned 67 mil and Harvey earned 23 mil. Unless our Grant has a bloodlust to make up for his dad's failure compared to his uncle, he has far less incentive to go pro than Ennis, who appears to be middle class.

Do millionaire's sons care less about future millions than a poor mans son?

Doc Rivers son Austin Rivers is the son of a millionaire player and current 2nd highest paid coach in the NBA and didn't need to leave Duke after his freshman year, but he did. Having wealthy parents is not why Grant will stay he will go if he wants to get paid and is ready for the NBA. Unless he wants a degree or loves the college lifestyle I thin he is gone. However, we are all speculating.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

I've said it before many times on this board but I think the NBA drafting for potential is a broken system. The NBA doesn't really develop players anymore they want instant success. In the past 10 years there's a slew of players that leave college as freshmen and sophomores and are drafted based on potential And then find themselves kicking around the D league for the next 2 to 3 years.
One player that comes to mind is Austin Rivers. Does anybody think Tyler is better than Austin was as a freshman? I don't. Austin The number 10 overall pick in the 2012 draft is a backup that averages 6 pts per game now in his second year. Not exactly a bust but not exactly a lottery worthy pick.
In the end I would love for Tyler to have a Sherman Douglas type career rather then a Johnny Flynn type career

 

[Eric15]

The best way for any athlete to gain size and strength would be to be doing so under the training of pro S&C coaches and with the money to have a personal chef/nutritionist. It's not going to be living on Skytop and eating at Goldstein.

This is the most soul-crushing yet completely accurate reality that you can tell a college basketball fan... that NBA-caliber talents are better off developing in the NBA than in college.

 

[The Viking]

I've said it before many times on this board but I think the NBA drafting for potential is a broken system. The NBA doesn't really develop players anymore they want instant success. In the past 10 years there's a slew of players that leave college as freshmen and sophomores and are drafted based on potential And then find themselves kicking around the D league for the next 2 to 3 years.
One player that comes to mind is Austin Rivers. Does anybody think Tyler is better than Austin was as a freshman? I don't. Austin The number 10 overall pick in the 2012 draft is a backup that averages 6 pts per game now in his second year. Not exactly a bust but not exactly a lottery worthy pick.[/quote]

Jerry West just made the comment that this year's draft will be among the worst, while others claim it's among the best. Apparently, his reasoning is that with the number of kids who come out early or out of HS, there is little value in most drafts in selecting in the first round because the draft is all about potential now rather than proven commodities. I don't know if he's right but it's worth talking about, anyway.

 

[Alsacs]

Jerry West just made the comment that this year's draft will be among the worst, while others claim it's among the best. Apparently, his reasoning is that with the number of kids who come out early or out of HS, there is little value in most drafts in selecting in the first round because the draft is all about potential now rather than proven commodities. I don't know if he's right but it's worth talking about, anyway.

I guess when West traded Vlade Divac for a high school kid named Kobe Bean Bryant he didn't see any value or potential. This year's draft has no Lebron, Tim Duncan, Shaq O'Neal, Hakeem, Patrick Ewing, Derrick Rose at the top, but its still better than most recent drafts. NBA drafts on upside because these kids leave early and take the money because they get paid to develop instead of developing in college for nothing. If I was poor and had a chance to make a million dollars your damn right I would take the money and be confident that I would get better while having pro coaching rather than college coaching who are more worried about keeping their jobs than developing my talent. For every JB, Coach K, Bill Self, John Beilen, Tom Izzo there are Tom Crean's, Buzz Williams type coaches who are the un-questioned leaders and micromanage everything in their programs.

Grant has improved in his 2 years at SU and he would get drafted in the first round and it would probably be the middle of the first round at worst. Unless the kid wants his degree or loves being in college assume he is gone, and if he comes back then it will be a bonus. Only 2 kids I believe in recent SU lore that could have left early have decided to come back last year C.J. Fair and 2004/2005 Hakim Warrick both seasons could have left and did not.

 

[SyracuseTD]

Just thinking about our potential lineup next year has me all giddy inside.

PG - Ennis, Joseph
SG - Cooney, Gbinije
SF - Roberson, Johnson
PF - McCullough, Xmas
C- Xmas, DC 2

Unfortunately, I just don't see Buss getting any playing time until his Jr or Sr year (and that is if he decides to stick around that long; same for BJ honestly)

 

[anglerman]

Not true. MCWs skill set was never an issue. It's not criminal to say that MCW is and was a better player than Tyler is. Doesn't mean the worse player isn't better for the team.


And I'd rather have Ennis running this team than Kyre Irving, doesn't mean Ennis is a better player. I would rather have CJ Fair than Andrew Wiggins, but Wiggins is a better player. We have the right fits on this team, Gmac was great for our team with no shot at the NBA, but was a great fit, JJ Reddick was a better player and it wasn't close, but I would have taken Gmac for out team.

All I see is all season long most on this board have undervalued this kid. Originally he was a sure 4 year player not a great athlete etc. hes a player with a truly elite skill set. He will be great NBA player.

 

[anglerman]

I'll be the contrary voice here. I think MCW was meaningfully under-rated during his time here and Ennis has probably been a little over-rated. (Mandatory pause in a likely fruitless attempt not to be misunderstood: Ennis is awesome and we could not be luckier to have him.)

I think it's likely Syracuse would have the same record it does now if MCW was on the team. I also think some of these close wins would have been blow-outs.

I think MCW is a victim and Ennis a beneficiary of the way we all view sports in terms of narratives. Syracuse started the season 25-0, Ennis had a great run of late-game heroics, so the narrative is he's a mature winner. MCW had the Lord and Taylor incident, a looser playing style, and a very tough stretch in the latter third of the regular season, so the narrative is he's a kind of a boom-and-bust guy who screwed up a lot. But he was dominant at times, no more so than during the NCAA tournament.

I really, really like Ennis. But I don't see what "skill set" he has that is greater than MCW. He makes fewer mistakes, to be sure, and that's a skill, though it's in significant part just conservatism - he takes a lot fewer risks than MCW. He has a tighter handle, although MCW's is probably about as good as could reasonably be expected for a 6'6" guy (and obviously that height is a big advantage). Maybe Ennis is a hair better as a shooter?

Ennis is better than MCW in all phases except for court vision. Ennis is a good passer but not elite. MCW has elite passing skills. I still haven't really seen anyone say they would want MCW over Ennis.

 

[IthacaMatt]

matt, come on. Gmac was never an nba level guard no matter how hard he had worked.

When they were both freshmen, Reddick and Gerry looked an awful lot alike. One of them really built up his body and the other liked to go fishing in the summer. They looked nothing alike 4 years later.

Sure, some (most?) may think that Gerry didn't have NBA talent, but if Jimmer Fredette can make an NBA roster, who's to say that Gerry never had the talent, if he took better care of himself? Maybe he wouldn't have gotten hurt so often over his last couple seasons.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Agreed about potential, athleticism, and skill being the main predictors and about how the tournament won't affect top 5 picks like Wiggins and Parker, or fringe first round picks like C.J. But I could definitely see it helping someone like Ennis or Grant who are looking to boost their stock. Look at Mitch Mcgary last year.

I agree with you. Happens every year. Was MCW a lottery pick before we made the Final Four? I don't think so. He couldn't make a jump shot, and his game was tailing off compared to where it had been early in the season, before Southerland's suspension.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Ennis is better than MCW in all phases except for court vision. Ennis is a good passer but not elite. MCW has elite passing skills. I still haven't really seen anyone say they would want MCW over Ennis.

It's hard to make these comparisons, because likely Rookie of the Year MCW is not the same player who played for Syracuse by a long shot. I have never seen one of our guys improve so much from private work-outs in anticipation of the draft - in either sport.

And also, Ennis is clearly trending down right now. He's a bit tired mentally. He's making a few more mistakes. His shooting percentages are down. Where it used to be when he made a turnover you were shocked, and there was usually only 1 a game, if he made any at all. Now, he's turning it over 2 or 3 times a game.

He's not playing at the Super-Human level he was at through our first 20 games. Some freshmen hit the wall around late January / early February, and I think that happened to Tyler.

I wish he was playing a little more aggressively, especially running the fast break, where I feel he is making it harder for us to score by refusing to take an opportunity when it's there. He refuses to make a play on the break, unless it's a sure thing.

MCW, in contrast, was kind of like Bambi out there, bouncing around, jumping up in the air, and sure dunking on guys when he got a lane to the hoop. But he had a hard time shooting from the outside, and was not even as good as you would like your PG to be at the free throw line, either.

The guy who played for us, and the guy on the Sixers are 2 different guys.

I think we should look into adding MCW's shot doctor to our staff.

 

[rrlbees]

When they were both freshmen, Reddick and Gerry looked an awful lot alike. One of them really built up his body and the other liked to go fishing in the summer. They looked nothing alike 4 years later. Sure, some (most?) may think that Gerry didn't have NBA talent, but if Jimmer Fredette can make an NBA roster, who's to say that Gerry never had the talent, if he took better care of himself? Maybe he wouldn't have gotten hurt so often over his last couple seasons.

Reddick is 6'4. Fredette is 6'2. Gerry is 6' that didn't help.

 

[rrlbees]

All I see is all season long most on this board have undervalued this kid. Originally he was a sure 4 year player not a great athlete etc. hes a player with a truly elite skill set. He will be great NBA player.

Stop. This board has been FAR from undervaluing Ennis. In fact in threads discussing value to the team, posters said Ennis by a huge margin.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Reddick is 6'4. Fredette is 6'2. Gerry is 6' that didn't help.

And 2 could create their shot and 1 needed screens more times than not.

Never cared for the reddick and Gerry comparisons, it was clear that it was an apples to oranges one. Didn't see enough jimmer to say, but he's in the league, so...

I'm with imatt (wait, what??) I'm worried Ennis has hit a wall too. Would like to win this, then blow out gatech and let him sit a lot.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Ennis hit a wall? looked pretty damn good against Maryland

 

[anglerman]

It's hard to make these comparisons, because likely Rookie of the Year MCW is not the same player who played for Syracuse by a long shot. I have never seen one of our guys improve so much from private work-outs in anticipation of the draft - in either sport.

And also, Ennis is clearly trending down right now. He's a bit tired mentally. He's making a few more mistakes. His shooting percentages are down. Where it used to be when he made a turnover you were shocked, and there was usually only 1 a game, if he made any at all. Now, he's turning it over 2 or 3 times a game.

He's not playing at the Super-Human level he was at through our first 20 games. Some freshmen hit the wall around late January / early February, and I think that happened to Tyler.

I wish he was playing a little more aggressively, especially running the fast break, where I feel he is making it harder for us to score by refusing to take an opportunity when it's there. He refuses to make a play on the break, unless it's a sure thing.

MCW, in contrast, was kind of like Bambi out there, bouncing around, jumping up in the air, and sure dunking on guys when he got a lane to the hoop. But he had a hard time shooting from the outside, and was not even as good as you would like your PG to be at the free throw line, either.

The guy who played for us, and the guy on the Sixers are 2 different guys.

I think we should look into adding MCW's shot doctor to our staff.

MCW was playing very poorly I've most of the second half if last season. Every player has off stretches. Tyler's last game was a very good one so I wouldn't exactly say he's trending downward.
MCW had many games with 5 turnovers last year. I don't think he improved as much as you think he has. It's a lot to do with the system JB runs and the onature of the NBA

Stop. This board has been FAR from undervaluing Ennis. In fact in threads discussing value to the team, posters said Ennis by a huge margin.

You obviously didn see a lot of posts earlier in the season. I mean undervalue as far as his actual talent level He's obviously the best player on this team. I was lambasted for suggesting he could be a one and done player

 

[JAXCUSE]

He's Maurice Cheeks if any of you guys are old enough to know who that is.

Mo Cheeks was faster.

I see more Mark Jackson in Ennis.

Slower, more deliberate, cerebral.

Jackson stayed in college for a few years and got stronger. Ennis should do the same.

 

[Melancer46]

I agree with you. Happens every year. Was MCW a lottery pick before we made the Final Four? I don't think so. He couldn't make a jump shot, and his game was tailing off compared to where it had been early in the season, before Southerland's suspension.

He was projected to go right around the end of the lottery the entire year pretty much. I think he peaked around the 8th pick or so in some mocks (with some last minute speculation that he could be the 1st PG taken), and his worst projected slot was around the 15-18 range.

 

[two3zone]

I agree with you. Happens every year. Was MCW a lottery pick before we made the Final Four? I don't think so. He couldn't make a jump shot, and his game was tailing off compared to where it had been early in the season, before Southerland's suspension.

You must not have followed the mocks last year at all. If I remember correctly he may have been in the mock lottery before the season started. If he wasn't he was by the 3rd or 5th game and out bad stretch never knocked him out.

 

[quentin cassidy]

People keep saying Ennis is small. Sure, when compared to MCW last year. But the average height of an NBA point guard is 6'1. So Ennis is average, not below average at his size.

I was skeptical of this stat when I read it, but it turns out you are right. The idea that small ball is taking over the NBA is definitely true.

http://basslinespin.blogspot.com/2012/04/2012-average-height-and-weight-of-nba.html

 

[Dave85]

@AlexKennedyNBA: Surprisingly, a number of scouts are saying that Tyler Ennis is strongly considering a return to Syracuse for his sophomore year.

He needs to hit the weight room and put on 10 to 15 pounds of muscle. His whole life he moves at the same speed. He's probably not going to move fast through college. It's probably going to take him a year in the weight room. And the whole time his facial expression will not change.

 

[Orangemen]

Bill Simmons and chad ford had a lengthy discussion about ennis on last weeks pod cast. what they said really makes me doubt ennis is coming back.

They both love his game. He's not a Russell Westbrook style PG who will be looking for his own shot. But there's a lot of teams where a distributor PG is exactly what they need.

Another interesting point they raised was that right now, coaches are not involved in the scouting at all, for obvious reasons. But once coaches start watching his games, and reading what JB says about him, the demand for ennis is likely to go way up. A PG that coaches can trust and who takes care of the ball and performs well under pressure? I think he's gone.

 

[Eric15]

Unfortunately, I just don't see Buss getting any playing time until his Jr or Sr year (and that is if he decides to stick around that long; same for BJ honestly)

I tend to agree with you on that, but then I think of how SU fans tended to write off James Southerland has not being able to break into the rotation around his soph/junior year, and he emerged into an extraordinarily important player for us as an upperclassman.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

A lot of this has to do with how we do in the NCAA tournament. If we make a run to the final four or win it all and Ennis and Grant play lights out, there both gone. If we get upset in the S16 I think they stay because the tournament definitely inflates your draft stock.

No, it doesn't. It inflates fan and media perception of a olayer.