ESPN's David Hale ranked how he has ACC schools talent by position.

[AAM62]

I think he is clearly underrating our D Line.

problem is its relative rankings in a league with really good DL play, but i do agree

 

[Ish88888]

So Dino does not want sudden changes in possession or quick stops? Bend don't break is more about playing with a lead (which we have not done often enough) and forcing the other team to be over aggressive and make mistakes. Shafer's style was certainly more about attacking, but I think we are over analyzing things here. Both DCs want quick stops and turnovers.

Any defensive coach and yes, ours should want sudden changes in possession and ours probably do too. However, Dino specifically uses this style of defense that is mostly a pro offense. When i say pro offense, its used there sparingly too. It's a tough scheme to run and requires big talent at DE and LB and is a scheme kids seldom run in HS. We run this scheme to compliment our offense bc a blitzing scheme would put our offense back on the field too soon after running an advanced pace. The T2 is bend but don't break and will not result in quick COP and give the O a blow. This was the selling point of the T2 when Dino arrived. Its been torched anywhere he has been. Even his last 2 years at BGU when he had " depth ".

 

[Dinkyspond]

I hate what his hiring as HC did to the growth the program after what we had gone thru with Robinson. We went cheap and got what we paid and is why this current roster is in a major rebuild.

I am not impressed by their season last year. I said the overload blitz stuff works with in Big East level type competition where the QB isn't close to as good on a weekly basis as it is a P5 league.
Good QBs carve up Shafer's type of overload blitz. If it doesn't get turnovers the D will get gashed by good QBs
I will never ease up on Shafer as I said his hiring was terrible.

Marrone left so late in the game, DG had no choice (and I hated DG) but to elevate Shafer. We would not have gotten much better than Shafer, another learning on the job coach. Shafer's ineptness was so evident by year 2. In way over his head.

 

[TheCusian]

When Shafer's starting QB was in the game, he was a good coach. When Shafer had to rely on 3rd and 4th string QB's, he was a poor coach. When Dino's starting QB is in the game, the team has been good. When Dino has to rely on backups, the team has been bad.

Nice try, but let’s start with

When Shafer has his number 1 QB he was mediocre

Instead

 

[TheCusian]

Any defensive coach and yes, ours should want sudden changes in possession and ours probably do too. However, Dino specifically uses this style of defense that is mostly a pro offense. When i say pro offense, its used there sparingly too. It's a tough scheme to run and requires big talent at DE and LB and is a scheme kids seldom run in HS. We run this scheme to compliment our offense bc a blitzing scheme would put our offense back on the field too soon after running an advanced pace. The T2 is bend but don't break and will not result in quick COP and give the O a blow. This was the selling point of the T2 when Dino arrived. Its been torched anywhere he has been. Even his last 2 years at BGU when he had " depth ".

He was only at Bowling Green for two years and ran the T2 the second year

Also what we run now isn’t primarily the T2, as has been explained

When he ran it at BG they were top 10 in INT which is pretty sudden in change of possession .. also they won 10 games and a MAC championship

 

[CousCuse]

Nice try, but let’s start with

When Shafer has his number 1 QB he was mediocre

Instead

He made and won a bowl game at the P5 level.

 

[CousCuse]

I think this is not inaccurate but i'm fairly confident that Syracuse has a better HC in Dino than we had in Shafer. Any coach suffers from having a backup. I am leaning on the D issue more than the HC issue. Dino commands respect and ultimately it will pay off in wins. Shafer's D was something I enjoyed as a fan. I love attacking D at the college level because it really puts pressure on QBs to make the right decision.

It's weird to think about it but Pasqualoni ran the craziest pro style option with DeLeone in the 90s and I can't remember (and i started watching in 1992) any of the starting qbs going down during that period of time from 1992-1999. Even Kevin Mason, all 120 lbs of him, withstood a whole season.

Imagine if P lost Graves or McNabb for portions of those seasons.

Look what happened at FSU last year when Francois went down. The fans there basically forced Jimbo out. Crazy fans everywhere.

 

[upperdeck]

Alabame got sucky QB play and had to go to the backup to win the NT. What if their backup had been a walkon, i dont think they win. qb play is a game changer.

clemson had to play a backup and we beat them. lots of teams struggled when the 2 had to play more,, ours had to play a lot and our 3 and our 4 the last few years.

 

[TheCusian]

He made and won a bowl game at the P5 level.

That’s not the threshold that determines “good coach” or not.

It was a good year and Shafer deserves credit for it. But it’s success wasn’t built solely on QB play, just as the horrible years after weren’t solely the output of bad QB play and injuries.

It’s a factor, of course. But linking QB play and coaching competence too closely without all the other things that go into being a college football coach .. is dumb.

 

[CousCuse]

That’s not the threshold that determines “good coach” or not.

It was a good year and Shafer deserves credit for it. But it’s success wasn’t built solely on QB play, just as the horrible years after weren’t solely the output of bad QB play and injuries.

It’s a factor, of course. But linking QB play and coaching competence too closely without all the other things that go into being a college football coach .. is dumb.

I've seen a lot of really good coaches look very "dumb" when their star QB was on the bench with an injury.

 

[Alsacs]

Shafer people are so awesome. He was an average defensive coach. That isn’t a negative either. Average isn’t bad:

 

[TheCusian]

I've seen a lot of really good coaches look very "dumb" when their star QB was on the bench with an injury.

“Looking very dumb” is different than being a bad coach

I spent 2 years arguing in favor of Shafer. I know his bad luck with QBs. That’s not why I think he was a bad HC

 

[CousCuse]

“Looking very dumb” is different than being a bad coach

I spent 2 years arguing in favor of Shafer. I know his bad luck with QBs. That’s not why I think he was a bad HC

He, or he and Lester got Dungey here, who is ranked as the number 2 QB in the ACC by David Hale. That was a good coaching decision.

 

[chugg21]

Look what happened at FSU last year when Francois went down. The fans there basically forced Jimbo out. Crazy fans everywhere.

Are you serious? Besides the Francois going down part, that isn't even close to reality. Jimbo left for the largest contract in the history of college sports. FSU was trying to do whatever to keep him but he wanted to go back to the SEC.

 

[P Vasiloff]

He, or he and Lester got Dungey here, who is ranked as the number 2 QB in the ACC by David Hale. That was a good coaching decision.

It's the quarterback group that is rated #2. Dino gets credit for DeVito. Go Orange!!!!!!

 

[OttoMets]

Marrone left so late in the game, DG had no choice (and I hated DG) but to elevate Shafer. We would not have gotten much better than Shafer, another learning on the job coach. Shafer's ineptness was so evident by year 2. In way over his head.

I'd have rolled the dice with Hackett. Keep the good offensive recruits (and scheme) and gamble that Shafer will stay.

 

[Alsacs]

I'd have rolled the dice with Hackett. Keep the good offensive recruits (and scheme) and gamble that Shafer will stay.

Shafer over Hackett was so dumb.
Especially since in 2012 what got the turnaround started was the offense became a machine.
People talk up Shafer’s defenses but I contend the conference we played in from 2009-2012 factored in greatly to how good they were.
The Big East wasn’t the Big XII offensively it was a defense first league.

We saw when we played Kansas State in 2010 that our top 10 defense was exposed against just a slightly above average K-State offense.

We won games that year against USF/Rutgers/Cincinnati teams with GARBAGE offense. The D deserves credit for shutting down WVU in WV.

However our Ds are so overrated by the Shafer people. We weren’t competitive in a lot of blowouts and good offenses from P5 tore us up.

I agree the D for the most part was better than the O but that doesn’t mean the DC was better than the OC.
Our true ascent came when the O was clicking.

It was late in the game but trust me I have had these threads a lot it was said the AD wasn’t caught off guard Marrone was leaving. He should have been prepared and not just gone with the cheap internal hire at the time of the greatest transition the program was going thru.

 

[AAM62]

He, or he and Lester got Dungey here, who is ranked as the number 2 QB in the ACC by David Hale. That was a good coaching decision.

would he be ranked #2 in lesters system? wait, why am I entertaining this redundant argument...

 

[elimunelson]

Shafer over Hackett was so dumb.
Especially since in 2012 what got the turnaround started was the offense became a machine.
People talk up Shafer’s defenses but I contend the conference we played in from 2009-2012 factored in greatly to how good they were.
The Big East wasn’t the Big XII offensively it was a defense first league.

We saw when we played Kansas State in 2010 that our top 10 defense was exposed against just a slightly above average K-State offense.

We won games that year against USF/Rutgers/Cincinnati teams with GARBAGE offense. The D deserves credit for shutting down WVU in WV.

However our Ds are so overrated by the Shafer people. We weren’t competitive in a lot of blowouts and good offenses from P5 tore us up.

I agree the D for the most part was better than the O but that doesn’t mean the DC was better than the OC.
Our true ascent came when the O was clicking.

It was late in the game but trust me I have had these threads a lot it was said the AD wasn’t caught off guard Marrone was leaving. He should have been prepared and not just gone with the cheap internal hire at the time of the greatest transition the program was going thru.

I thought the decision to make Shafer HC was premised on Hackett sticking around. marrone came back and grabbed Nate after the school thought he'd stay on as O-Coordinator. He was a young kid at the time and Shafer was the more experienced guy to be the HC.

The whole thing happened so late in the process that the decision was right at the time. After Shafer somehow got them into a bowl first season in the ACC, there were gonna stick w him.

My suspicion is if we went out to find a HC when Doug left, we would have ended up with Steve Addazio who everyone around here loathes.

 

[OttoMets]

I thought the decision to make Shafer HC was premised on Hackett sticking around. marrone came back and grabbed Nate after the school thought he'd stay on as O-Coordinator. He was a young kid at the time and Shafer was the more experienced guy to be the HC.

The whole thing happened so late in the process that the decision was right at the time. After Shafer somehow got them into a bowl first season in the ACC, there were gonna stick w him.

My suspicion is if we went out to find a HC when Doug left, we would have ended up with Steve Addazio who everyone around here loathes.

Given all the goofy stuff Shafer says and the hiring decisions he made, I can't believe he'd have said the right things during whatever interview process SU put him through after Marrone left. It was negligent to let that guy run a program.

Though I do respect him a lot more than Steve Addazio, so if that was a likely alternative I'll stop complaining.

 

[CousCuse]

It's the quarterback group that is rated #2. Dino gets credit for DeVito. Go Orange!

Pulease.

 

[Alsacs]

Given all the goofy stuff Shafer says and the hiring decisions he made, I can't believe he'd have said the right things during whatever interview process SU put him through after Marrone left. It was negligent to let that guy run a program.

Though I do respect him a lot more than Steve Addazio, so if that was a likely alternative I'll stop complaining.

It’s unbelievable Gross would interview Shafer and think he had the composure to be a HC.
The Dabo incident year 1 showed how much of a clown Shafer was. The guy had never been on the sideline once as a coordinator and Gross gave this guy the keys.

It is mind numbing we hired the clownshow that was SS. It also is makes me laugh how the same people will respond. So it’s therapeutic to say.

 

[TheCusian]

He, or he and Lester got Dungey here, who is ranked as the number 2 QB in the ACC by David Hale. That was a good coaching decision.

You and zero sum. Yeah, he hit on some guys and missed on others. That’s another part of the problem, not the whole problem.

Shafer and Lester deserve credit for bringing him in. Shafer also gets the blame for our super small non-ACC secondary too

 

[TheCusian]

Are you serious? Besides the Francois going down part, that isn't even close to reality. Jimbo left for the largest contract in the history of college sports. FSU was trying to do whatever to keep him but he wanted to go back to the SEC.

Not exactly. It was a mutual parting, I think.

 

[TheCusian]

I thought the decision to make Shafer HC was premised on Hackett sticking around. marrone came back and grabbed Nate after the school thought he'd stay on as O-Coordinator. He was a young kid at the time and Shafer was the more experienced guy to be the HC.

The whole thing happened so late in the process that the decision was right at the time. After Shafer somehow got them into a bowl first season in the ACC, there were gonna stick w him.

My suspicion is if we went out to find a HC when Doug left, we would have ended up with Steve Addazio who everyone around here loathes.

I loathe him now. Back then I’d have given him the same shot I gave Shafer. Took me a while to see and understand why we needed different and how much Babers system works best indoors.