Essentially played without a PG this year

[Henny & Coke]

So he missed how many games this year due to injury and still finished this good? Imagine if he had played every game like these other guys, he would have been easily in the top 50% all year!

Frank missed only 5 games this season.

And the only “counting” statistic that I provided that would be impacted was total assists. The other 5 categories were ratios or per game - thus, not (too) adversely impacted by FH’s missing 5 games.

 

[721Comstock]

My optimism was due to thinking that Brissett, Frankie, Battle and Marek would all improve, that Hughes would add something, and Carey would also help. I wasn't counting on much of a change from the 5.

Instead, Brissett was pretty much the same guy but got to the line less and didn't shoot as well from 3, Frankie was injured and that clearly affected not just his performance but how he even played the game, Battle improved in some ways but didn't take the leap we thought, and Marek got better but was still used in a limited role. Hughes did add something, Carey didn't really help, but Buddy came on. We didn't have much change at the 5.

Edit to add: Had Frankie not gotten injured, I think we would have taken some big steps forward.

THIS.

Jr. year Frank was pretty damn solid.
14.4pts 4.7ast 3.5 rebs 1.8 stls
Now, imagine that guy - only healthy, and with an improved 3-ball?

His injury and extended recovery completely sabotaged this season.
He was a shadow of himself on both sides of the ball, pretty much for the entirety of the year.

The last Duke game was the closest he got to being Jr. Frank again, and then -
poof (or rather, puff!), he was gone.

 

[OttoMets]

there's an old cliche you want good fast and cheap but you have to pick 2

well, here we can have ball handling, length, and shooting but you have to pick 2

sims 2 (shooting), hart 2 (shooting - got better though), mcnamara 2 (length), edelin 2 (shooting), flynn (length), mcw 2 (shooting), gbinije (ball handling) was probably the closest to 3 but his ball handling wasn't quite there

other schools have the same problem but put less priority on length. jardine was close to being pretty good in all three areas, probably the most underrated player we've ever had, didn't excel at any one thing but got by in all three

Totally tangential, but I'd say that Flynn was actually the closest to 3. He was short, but he had a 6'4" wingspan. Any defensive problems were more due to insubordination than length.

 

[OttoMets]

Lots. "Post threat" doesn't mean old school center -- it just means someone who can score consistently in the paint. On the 2003 squad, that was Carmelo Anthony -- our SF. And Hakim Warrick, the PF.

On this team, it should be Brissett. But he can't finish.

Tweaked it for you.

Our best teams (1987-1991, 1996, 2003, 2010) usually have two versatile post scorers on the floor. Lately, not so much.

 

[Col. Bleep]

There is a chicken and egg issue.
But whether it was the injury or the "standstill offense" or other reasons...the point guard was of limited effectiveness.
It seems pretty clear that in this case the chicken laid an egg.

 

[Sherman20]

Guards can't drop dimes if guys aren't moving without the ball. What were our frontcourt players, minus Marek, doing most possessions? Watching the ball and standing still.

Frank had to drive and dish but didn't have the speed after the injury to drive consistently.

This is the question that’s debated ad nauseam on this board, but still doesn’t have a satisfactory answer. Is it due to the lack of creativity and play calling, offensive scheming and coaching? Is it JB’s mantra-like desire to keep-it-simple-stupid in all facets of the program? Or is it the players/talent? Are they not capable of executing and lack the mental aspect of the game? (I believe SWC reported that JB or one of the coaches said on his show that the guys can’t remember the few plays they even run now.) Or is it a function of our lack of a good PG? Frank was injured early in the season and never seemed to regain his ability to penetrate/drive to the basket, which is an absolute necessity for a PG and for an offense to have good ball movement. So maybe it is a function of both talent and coaching deficiencies. It’s imperative that Carey or Goodine step up next season and provide us with a PG who can run the offense, drive and dish, and penetrate into the lane without turning it over too much.

 

[billsin01]

OP’s post was awesome but nobody moves without the ball in our offense. We’re built around iso players who’s names aren’t Morant or Barrett. We slowed the game down, again, because of lack of transition (half Frank’s fault there). Many players fumbled or passed on good looks provided by our guards. We were a passive, low basketball iq offense. Very visible. I put part of the blame on Frank without a doubt. But lets not act like this offense was set up to offer the assists numbers and good shots Ennis’ and MCW’s were.

This is a really good post. Not sure I totally agree on the Ennis and MCW part b/c I think those guys with that surrounding cast are at least better than Frank (and I"m not a guy who crushed frank generally). But the degree to which this offense stood around and stared at one another (which has something to do with the ball reliance Frank and Tyus have) was appalling if you like good offensive basketball. Has to change.

 

[tbonezone]

it's a talent deficit. BATTLE was ACC 3rd team. so point the finger at recruiting or not coaching up.

 

[Melancer46]

Since Baylor game I've been trying to figure out where this season went wrong for SU. I had high expectations, coming off of a Sweet 16 finish & getting everyone back (plus Hughes & decent recruits).

...Because, on paper, PG should have been a solid position for SU in 2018-19. A returning Senior PG who had played well prior year!

I love the stats. I think step 1 in where we went wrong having high expectations is that most of these numbers are more or less the same as they were the year before when Howard supposedly played well. The simple fact of the matter is that he was never a good or even average offensive player. He showed flashes of nice passing vision early on (I want to say maybe his sophomore year?), but his A:T ratio was identically bad as a junior and senior and he was always among the least efficient scorers in the country.

This same kind of study would paint Brissett, another guy that people thought played well a year ago in a similarly poor light. They were both laughably bad offensive players the past two seasons and yet we depended on them offensively more than anyone else besides Battle (and maybe Hughes this season).

The offensive system itself is pretty bad, but it's also made worse by the fact that over the past two years, we've built the offense around 3 guys, 2 of which are terrible offensive players.

 

[manleyzoo]

Had the staff not gone all in on Quade Green when there were plenty of good PGs out there, and JB's reluctance, inability, stubbornness, laziness (pick one or more) to put players in positions where they can actually be effective on offense based on what they do best led/contributed to this team performing as poorly as it did. To me, you can blame the players all you want but college ball these days isn't free flowing on offense with only a few exceptions. The players do as they're told by the coach. If the offense stinks it's all on Boeheim.

 

[Sherman20]

My optimism was due to thinking that Brissett, Frankie, Battle and Marek would all improve, that Hughes would add something, and Carey would also help. I wasn't counting on much of a change from the 5.

Instead, Brissett was pretty much the same guy but got to the line less and didn't shoot as well from 3, Frankie was injured and that clearly affected not just his performance but how he even played the game, Battle improved in some ways but didn't take the leap we thought, and Marek got better but was still used in a limited role. Hughes did add something, Carey didn't really help, but Buddy came on. We didn't have much change at the 5.

Edit to add: Had Frankie not gotten injured, I think we would have taken some big steps forward.

Agreed. And Frank finally started to play a little more consistently the last few weeks of the season, which I think gave us a little optimism going into the tourney. If Frank had played against Baylor, I think we beat them but lose to Gonzaga in a pretty close game. Since there’s no shame in losing to a #1 seed title contender, maybe we feel just a little bit better about the season and see what could have been with a healthy Frank.

 

[OrangeDW]

Frank wouldve been a solid 3rd guard on a better team.

Maybe a decent starting two guard on a team with a good PG.

Just not that good as a starting PG.

And that’s when healthy.

Unfortunately he got hurt and was the best option we had.

I hope Carey makes a big jump and the two freshman guards come in ready to contribute. Not realistic to hope for Pearl or Flynn or GMac level, but how about Brandon Triche level?

 

[NYCorange]

The problems on offence were 99% the pg and center position. IMO 60% was the center position.

Our offense is essentially a high ball screen offence with the center setting a pick for the pg. The point guard penetrates, the center rolls and 2 defenders can't contain the action, a third has to help, the defense starts scrambling and we get a 3 or a driving lane.

Our pg can't beat the defence off the dribble and none of our centers are consistent threats to catch and finish or flush a lot. It didn't help Frank that because Chewy was such a non threat to catch and do something, that Chewys man could hedge super hard and then recover. Frank ended up being effectively trapped in every ball screen action with chewy. A faster pg might have been able to beat the hedge, and a craftier one with a better handle might have been able to probe and make plays but Frank just isn't that. Fundamentally though, the bigger problem was at center. Even ball screens by other players (OB) for example, didn't work because teams could help off chewy without consistent consequences. That's why the offense improved so much when Marek was in. He generally made teams pay for leaving him open--by playmaking or shooting.

I think Carey and Goodine have the potential to fix the pg problem next year-- at least from an athleticism and handle perspective. Without an upgrade at center or offensive game plan however I think it will still likely be a struggle. Marek at 5 is probably our best hope on offense.

 

[hungrychuck]

Remarkable that anyone is still trying to defend Frank. Aside from the injury, which is valid.

The other reason for the bad offense is coaching. I’ve thought for a long time that JB should just coach the zone and bring in an OC.

 

[manleyzoo]

Remarkable that anyone is still trying to defend Frank. Aside from the injury, which is valid.

The other reason for the bad offense is coaching. I’ve thought for a long time that JB should just coach the zone and bring in an OC.

How about JB coaches the remote from his couch and calls it a career.

 

[hungrychuck]

How about JB coaches the remote from his couch and calls it a career.

Not advocating that.

But let’s face it: he struggles to coach offense.

No shame in lightening his load at this point. Let him coach what he’s good at.

 

[manleyzoo]

The problems on offence were 99% the pg and center position. IMO 60% was the center position.

Our offense is essentially a high ball screen offence with the center setting a pick for the pg. The point guard penetrates, the center rolls and 2 defenders can't contain the action, a third has to help, the defense starts scrambling and we get a 3 or a driving lane.

Our pg can't beat the defence off the dribble and none of our centers are consistent threats to catch and finish or flush a lot. It didn't help Frank that because Chewy was such a non threat to catch and do something, that Chewys man could hedge super hard and then recover. Frank ended up being effectively trapped in every ball screen action with chewy. A faster pg might have been able to beat the hedge, and a craftier one with a better handle might have been able to probe and make plays but Frank just isn't that. Fundamentally though, the bigger problem was at center. Even ball screens by other players (OB) for example, didn't work because teams could help off chewy without consistent consequences. That's why the offense improved so much when Marek was in. He generally made teams pay for leaving him open--by playmaking or shooting.

I think Carey and Goodine have the potential to fix the pg problem next year-- at least from an athleticism and handle perspective. Without an upgrade at center or offensive game plan however I think it will still likely be a struggle. Marek at 5 is probably our best hope on offense.

So then you'd think the HOF coach would have stopped trying to make Chewy into a player he's not, drop the pick and roll and put in an offense that played to whatever strengths he and other guys had. But no, he continued to do the same set over and over, unconvinced that it won't work with the players he had. He does the same thing every year now. He says he adjusts on both sides of the ball but that's like saying he trims his fingernails differently. Doesn't make much of a difference.

 

[Melancer46]

THIS.

Jr. year Frank was pretty damn solid.
14.4pts 4.7ast 3.5 rebs 1.8 stls
Now, imagine that guy - only healthy, and with an improved 3-ball?

His injury and extended recovery completely sabotaged this season.
He was a shadow of himself on both sides of the ball, pretty much for the entirety of the year.

The last Duke game was the closest he got to being Jr. Frank again, and then -
poof (or rather, puff!), he was gone.

This season was his best year in terms of scoring efficiency. He was always a bad scorer. This year he was slightly better in that regard but was still bad. The decline in his assists is almost entirely due to playing fewer minutes. His assists per 40 minutes were basically the same and his A:T ratio were identical the last two years. He didn't really regress at all; he was the same bad offensive player he's always been.

 

[SWC75]

We had no true point guard this year, (Frank was basically a 2 guard that brought the ball up.) Next year we have four different candidates for the position. They are cropping up everywhere!

I certainly have my problems with the offense. We've been playing D'Antoni ball with centers who can't score. I think we might get more out of our centers next season if Sidibe is healthy and we have Ajak and Edwards or Dolezaj. I think any scheme, even a flawed one, works better with better players. You know...Jimmys and Joes. Or Bouramas.

 

[AccuRater]

Since Baylor game I've been trying to figure out where this season went wrong for SU. I had high expectations, coming off of a Sweet 16 finish & getting everyone back (plus Hughes & decent recruits).

Popular narrative around here lately has been how SU has not recruited PG & Centers well recently. So, I wanted to give that a little test - or, at least the PG part. My eyes told me it was true...that Frank Howard was not preforming well at all this season, and our offense was suffering because of it. But do the stats show this as well?

Because, on paper, PG should have been a solid position for SU in 2018-19. A returning Senior PG who had played well prior year! Talented new top 50 recruit! Well, that didn't turn out to be the case. Check it out. (Note: All stats are for games not including the NCAA Tournament.)

Frank Howard vs the Field (each team's leading assist player for every team in NCAA Tournament):

What stats do we want to focus on for a PG? Well, how about assists? That is essentially their main role - to facilitate offense & get players easy shots. Here's how Frank Howard compared:


Assists per Game:

Howard - 2.9 APG (Rank - #58th best)

NCAA Highest - 7.6 APG (C. Winston, Mich St)
NCAA Lowest - 2.5 APG (R. Duncan, Vermont)
How many better than Howard - 58 players out of 64.

Total Assists (Season):

Howard - 84 Assists (Rank - Tied for #64th best)

NCAA Highest - 311 Assists (J. Morant, Murray St)
NCAA Lowest - 84 Assists (F. Howard, SU & E. Worku, UC Irvine)
How many better than Howard - All, or 63 players of 64.

Ok, so that's not good (lol). How about Assist to Turnover ratio?

Assist to Turnover Ratio:

Howard - 1.42% (Rank - #50th best)

NCAA Highest - 3.56% (C. Winston, Mich St.)
NCAA Lowest - 1.00% (M. Howard, Marquette & D. Simonds, Georgia St.)
How many better than Howard - 50 players of 64.

Well, if a PG is not the "pass first" type, then he very well may be a scorer. How about shooting percentages?

FG %:

Howard - 365% (Rank - #65th best)

NCAA Highest - 555% (J. Tate, Northern Kentucky)
NCAA Lowest - 365% (F. Howard, SU)
How many better than Howard - ALL 64 of 64 players.
In fact, only 11 other players were below 400% FG. Next closest to FH was 374%.

3PT %:

Howard - 340% (Rank - #40th best)

NCAA Highest - 485% (S. Murphy, Woffard)
NCAA Lowest - 176% (R. Duncan, Vermont)
How many better than Howard - 39 players out of 64.

So...shooting wasn't exactly Frank's strong suit either. How about driving the lane, breaking down the defense? At the very least a PG could be causing havoc for the opposing defense by getting fouled and getting to the FT line. Or, FTAs are also indications the PG is driving and possibly dishing as well.

Free Throw Attempts per Game:

Howard - 1.4 FTA (Rank - #57th best)

NCAA Highest - 8.3 FTA (M. Howard, Marquette)
NCAA Lowest - 0.7 FTA (J. Bieniemy, Oklahoma)
How many better than Howard - 56 players out of 64.

I'm not prone to hyperbole - BUT, if I were, I would say "Syracuse LITERALLY played without a point guard this past season! OMFG!" Haha.

But, wow, look at some of these stats...they seem to back up "the eye test" to confirm that our Senior PG leader was not very good at all this year. (Sorry to pile on, FH - wish the stats could have exonerated you.)

One aspect that can absolutely (and should) get better in 2019-2020.

One of the most insightful and penetrating posts I have seen on this board!

 

[Millhouse]

a few threads here about getting more out of our centers

22 centers with 8+ attempts per game. The teams on this list are not schools you ever think of much for the most part Player Season Finder Query Results | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

20 years ago, there were 66 Player Season Finder Query Results | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

in 92-93 there were 94 such centers Player Season Finder Query Results | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

it's just not efficient to dump the ball to centers down low

as usual boeheim was ahead of the curve here

 

[Melancer46]

a few threads here about getting more out of our centers

22 centers with 8+ attempts per game. The teams on this list are not schools you ever think of much for the most part Player Season Finder Query Results | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

20 years ago, there were 66 Player Season Finder Query Results | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

in 92-93 there were 94 such centers Player Season Finder Query Results | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

it's just not efficient to dump the ball to centers down low

as usual boeheim was ahead of the curve here

I don't think 8 FGA is necessary but certainly more than 2 shots is. Of centers that played at least 20 minutes per game, only 9 centers attempted 5 or fewer FGA per game and 8 of those 9 were between 4-5 FGAs. Chukwu was at 2.1 all by himself. Teams literally left him unguarded standing next to the hoop because they knew we wouldn't pass him the ball.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Maybe someday we'll have a point guard actually playing the position. Frank did what he could, but he was never a PG, never looked like a PG and our offense suffered as a result. This is nothing new, we've been playing this atrocious game of shoehorning wings/off guards into a ball handling role.

If this program is ever going to be a threat again, we MUST be better at guard, specifically PG. We need shooters and we need quickness/athleticism. The game isn't built for 6'5" guards that aren't overly athletic anymore. Speed, quickness, ball handling, shooting are the elements that make up quality college guards. Don't care about size and wish our HC would adjust to the times. Hopefully with Goodine and Girard, that will be the case.

 

[kuethstheman]

The game isn't built for 6'5" guards that aren't overly athletic anymore.

I remember those days! Actually, no. I don't.

 

[SU94]

Great data. It is clearly a combination of our anemic offense combined with Frank being injured (or whatever it was that made him a shell of himself).

I am a little late to the party on this thread, but I don't know if you noticed, but Oregon last night used the same offense we did against UVa. Yep, the Ducks failed to get 50 points, but let's remember, of the last 3-4 years, Virginia/Bennett has been the gold standard for defense in CBB (and we are not too far down the list).

Point is, Oregon used ball screens galore and lots of one-on-one penetration to attempt to drive and dish (via Prichard). They were leading with less than 5 minutes left. I view Altman as a top 15 in-game tactician and we have the same offense.