Evaluating this team/program thru 4 games | Syracusefan.com

Evaluating this team/program thru 4 games

billsin01

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So four games. 2-2 record. A pretty interesting mix of teams played (FCS newby, the best program in the country, a potential big 5 on the rise and a MAC team that is a fairly dangerous mid-major). What have we learned? What are we watching for? Think 3 or 4 weeks in is always a good chance to draw somewhat fair conclusions and it should give us an idea of the big storylines going forward. So let's take a look (oh, and if you're someone who doesn't think dino should ever get critiqued for anything, I apologize in advance).

What we know
This offense is a work in progress

I think we're all a little disappointed to be sitting here at 2-2 having been outscored 137-102. Beating Clemson was always a bit pie in the sky and I think we all (or at least I) underestimated Maryland's potential (still not sure if they'll be great but clearly they have some talent and could have a solid or maybe even better season).

But offensively it's really been a struggle until we broke out a bit last week. Young, dinged up OL has struggled, Tommy has had nice moments and some brutal moments (IMO), and the receivers haven't been the playmakers we thought they would be (though Trishton is making some plays).

What's encouraging, at least, after last week is that we still have the potential to be solid here and ideally we can continue to improve. We have Holy Cross then a bye so there's a little time here to work on ironing things out. We also don't face Clemson again. That should help. Would love to see the tempo speed up and execution to get more consistent.

The defense doesn't tackle well
Whether or not we ever have a dominant defense given how we want to play offense, is debateable but in this world of spread offenses, if giving up first downs and yards is inevitable, you at least want to be able make teams execute in the red zone to score TDs, make tackles to prevent huge plays and chunk yardage as much as possible, and create turnovers.

The turnovers are still a part of what we've been doing (luck or otherwise) but we give up a ton of big plays. The angles we take to tackle are occasionally painful to watch. The yards per play surrendered are bad enough -- 7.8 ypp to MD, 8 to clemson and 7 to WMU -- but when you factor in that Maryland effectively shut it down after taking a huge lead on their first drive of the third quarter and WMU lost a huge key to their offense in Eskridge in the first quarter and lost Bellamy later in the game -- and those numbers are even worse.

Whatever the numbers are or aren't overall for this defense, we need to improve on tackling, rallying to the ball and at least making teams work for points and 10+yard plays. That doesn't seem like that high a bar to set.

Hoftrichter is outstanding
It always sucks to be bragging about your punter but that kid has been nails this year. Really nice weapon to have back there and he and Szmyt are such a luxury.

Neal has improved so much in four years
As up-and-down as the offense has been so far, it's cool to see the vision and patience Moe Neal is running with right now. His big run to get us a first down late in the WMU game where he made most of the WMU defense whiff with a ridiculous cutback was a thing of beauty. Had a nice subtle cut (that he wouldn't have made as a frosh or soph) to break free for the TD that put Liberty away late. He's also made a bunch of nice plays in the passing game. Fumble kind of sucked against WMU but he's developed into a much better player than I anticipated early in his career.

We've been outschemed a bunch this year
Maybe next year we should hold preseason camp in an undisclosed location in the Adirondacks because while we locked everyone out of camp again, we had nothing that surprised liberty, got beat to the punch on both sides of the ball all day at maryland, had absolutely zero clue how to handle Clemson's blitzing scheme and at best played to a draw with WMU with our offense creating problems for them while their offense ripped off huge chunks of yardage against us. Before people start hyperventilating, I like Dino and co. and I'm not begging for Ward to be fired or Lynch let go. I liked the wrinkle of the shovel pass and DeVito designed runs against WMU as well as the fact that we attacked the middle of the field more in the passing game. I also think a huge part of football is simple -- have a system, execute it well and try to get good talent to develop with a strong S&C program. Easier said than done but it doesn't require a PhD. So I'm not sure individual game plans are as important as our overall execution, just pointing out that, for whatever it's worth, we haven't really been on the plus side of that ledger much this season.

What we don't know ... at least not yet

How good is Tommy?

Tommy was mostly brutal against Liberty, OK but nowhere near as good as the stats would suggest against UMD, pretty solid against Clemson all things considered and really good against WMU. So the trend line is a good one. What we definitely know is that when a play goes off without a hitch as it's drawn up in the playbook, it's easy to see why people like Tommy as much as they do. Strong arm, good accuracy not bad overall athleticism. The improvising and moving within the pocket has improved already in four games, so that's a good sign too. I was also impressed with how he battled against Clemson right to the last throw where he got crushed (that's two games in a row where he's been left in to take a big hit for no real good reason, by the way).

What we don't know is how good Tommy can be. Can he be a guy that leads this team and this offense to a good season this year? Can he show that intangible quality that intangible quality that takes a good offense and makes it a great one? Can he sync up with his receivers so we don't throw bad picks to waiting defenders (who luckily don't always catch the ball)? Can he bail out a weak offensive line with good decisions? Will be interesting to watch.

Where are all those guys we were excited about in the offseason?
Trill, Cisco, Courtney Jackson, Nykiem Johnson, Abdul Adams, Taj Harris, Sean Riley ... Really quiet start for most of these guys. Obviously Trill had a huge play against Liberty and Cisco had a couple picks before missing the WMU game. But overall I would say we're still waiting on all of those guys to become true difference-makers for this team. Cisco is still a bullet making a play on a ball but has to get better down-to-down making plays. Trill is a phenomenal athlete but is inconsistent. Nykiem has looked really bad so far, Courtney Jackson isn't playing, Adams had a bad fumble and, while he's had some moments, hasn't emerged as a stud RB, Taj is OK but it's been somewhat underwhelming so far and Riley averaging 7 yards a catch on 4 catches a game. Need more from these guys.

How good are the teams we've played?
This is an interesting question b/c Liberty actually has two wins and while we know they're not going to be great, is there a chance they're a frisky 4-win team? Maryland had the trap game loss at Temple (which isn't as bad a loss as it looks like on the ticker), but could very well beat PSU this week and may yet prove to be a pretty good team. Clemson is obviously ridiculous, but WMU is 2-2 with two blowouts against weak competition and two not terribly pretty losses against good competition. So have we played tough teams and made it out with a 2-2 record or do liberty and wmu stink while Maryland is only a middle of the road P5 type team? The answer to that question could make a big difference in how we view the start of this season several weeks from now.

Can our offensive line grow into something more than what it is right now?
As bad as the OL has looked at times, they kept tommy upright for good portions of UMD and WMU and we obviously ran the ball well last week. Clemson abused us, but they'll do that to a lot of people. If we can get healthy and some of the younger kids come along, that would be a really encouraging sign for many reasons.

Can we improve our tempo offensively?
There are a lot of factors in this b/c, among other things, the OL needs to be solid, we need to avoid self-destructive plays -- penalties, turnovers, poorly executed plays -- and in good shape and we need tommy to make some big plays to keep drives alive.

At the end of the day if you were grading out where we are, it would be a bit bleak. But how this team grows the next couple weeks and how they start ACC play could go a long way toward making us all feel better about this season.
 
ESPN Advanced statistic/FPI after 4th game as rated against 130 teams total. For explanation of statistic see ESPN site. It's not perfect but is a good barometer if you look at Top 20 overall. Additionally, all statistical models perform much better as the amount of data increases. So the below is just a snapshot of what the input is to date.

Offensive efficiency- 99th
Defensive efficiency- 37th
Special Teams efficiency- 5th
Overall efficiency- 50th

ESPN FPI ranking - 67

FEI ranking is a points per possession model I like that also rates offensive and defensive production as a future predictor of W/L.

Offensive ranking- 96th
Defensive ranking- 49th

Overall ranking - 74

Good news is we're trending up in both. Will be interesting to revisit after 8 games.
 
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We’ve played our worse football this season.
The OL is getting it together and is a huge focus week to week.
They added some needed wrinkles to the offense.
Defense came up huge getting 7 turnovers (yes I count stops on 4th down as turnovers).
This team is finally locked in and knows what needs to happen week to week.
Sadly our collective heads got to big after 2018 and Maryland caught is looking and blew our doors off.
Offense wasn’t ready for the overall speed of Clemson but I don’t think any college team will be.
Special teams has been great again, minus Riley some times. I hope we are able to keep Lustig for a long time to come.
One more tune up and a nice bye week to get ready for the ACC season.
 
defensively we give up 6.6 yd per play. and the penalties numbers need improvement.
 
So four games. 2-2 record. A pretty interesting mix of teams played (FCS newby, the best program in the country, a potential big 5 on the rise and a MAC team that is a fairly dangerous mid-major). What have we learned? What are we watching for? Think 3 or 4 weeks in is always a good chance to draw somewhat fair conclusions and it should give us an idea of the big storylines going forward. So let's take a look (oh, and if you're someone who doesn't think dino should ever get critiqued for anything, I apologize in advance).

What we know
This offense is a work in progress

I think we're all a little disappointed to be sitting here at 2-2 having been outscored 137-102. Beating Clemson was always a bit pie in the sky and I think we all (or at least I) underestimated Maryland's potential (still not sure if they'll be great but clearly they have some talent and could have a solid or maybe even better season).

But offensively it's really been a struggle until we broke out a bit last week. Young, dinged up OL has struggled, Tommy has had nice moments and some brutal moments (IMO), and the receivers haven't been the playmakers we thought they would be (though Trishton is making some plays).

What's encouraging, at least, after last week is that we still have the potential to be solid here and ideally we can continue to improve. We have Holy Cross then a bye so there's a little time here to work on ironing things out. We also don't face Clemson again. That should help. Would love to see the tempo speed up and execution to get more consistent.

The defense doesn't tackle well
Whether or not we ever have a dominant defense given how we want to play offense, is debateable but in this world of spread offenses, if giving up first downs and yards is inevitable, you at least want to be able make teams execute in the red zone to score TDs, make tackles to prevent huge plays and chunk yardage as much as possible, and create turnovers.

The turnovers are still a part of what we've been doing (luck or otherwise) but we give up a ton of big plays. The angles we take to tackle are occasionally painful to watch. The yards per play surrendered are bad enough -- 7.8 ypp to MD, 8 to clemson and 7 to WMU -- but when you factor in that Maryland effectively shut it down after taking a huge lead on their first drive of the third quarter and WMU lost a huge key to their offense in Eskridge in the first quarter and lost Bellamy later in the game -- and those numbers are even worse.

Whatever the numbers are or aren't overall for this defense, we need to improve on tackling, rallying to the ball and at least making teams work for points and 10+yard plays. That doesn't seem like that high a bar to set.

Hoftrichter is outstanding
It always sucks to be bragging about your punter but that kid has been nails this year. Really nice weapon to have back there and he and Szmyt are such a luxury.

Neal has improved so much in four years
As up-and-down as the offense has been so far, it's cool to see the vision and patience Moe Neal is running with right now. His big run to get us a first down late in the WMU game where he made most of the WMU defense whiff with a ridiculous cutback was a thing of beauty. Had a nice subtle cut (that he wouldn't have made as a frosh or soph) to break free for the TD that put Liberty away late. He's also made a bunch of nice plays in the passing game. Fumble kind of sucked against WMU but he's developed into a much better player than I anticipated early in his career.

We've been outschemed a bunch this year
Maybe next year we should hold preseason camp in an undisclosed location in the Adirondacks because while we locked everyone out of camp again, we had nothing that surprised liberty, got beat to the punch on both sides of the ball all day at maryland, had absolutely zero clue how to handle Clemson's blitzing scheme and at best played to a draw with WMU with our offense creating problems for them while their offense ripped off huge chunks of yardage against us. Before people start hyperventilating, I like Dino and co. and I'm not begging for Ward to be fired or Lynch let go. I liked the wrinkle of the shovel pass and DeVito designed runs against WMU as well as the fact that we attacked the middle of the field more in the passing game. I also think a huge part of football is simple -- have a system, execute it well and try to get good talent to develop with a strong S&C program. Easier said than done but it doesn't require a PhD. So I'm not sure individual game plans are as important as our overall execution, just pointing out that, for whatever it's worth, we haven't really been on the plus side of that ledger much this season.

What we don't know ... at least not yet

How good is Tommy?

Tommy was mostly brutal against Liberty, OK but nowhere near as good as the stats would suggest against UMD, pretty solid against Clemson all things considered and really good against WMU. So the trend line is a good one. What we definitely know is that when a play goes off without a hitch as it's drawn up in the playbook, it's easy to see why people like Tommy as much as they do. Strong arm, good accuracy not bad overall athleticism. The improvising and moving within the pocket has improved already in four games, so that's a good sign too. I was also impressed with how he battled against Clemson right to the last throw where he got crushed (that's two games in a row where he's been left in to take a big hit for no real good reason, by the way).

What we don't know is how good Tommy can be. Can he be a guy that leads this team and this offense to a good season this year? Can he show that intangible quality that intangible quality that takes a good offense and makes it a great one? Can he sync up with his receivers so we don't throw bad picks to waiting defenders (who luckily don't always catch the ball)? Can he bail out a weak offensive line with good decisions? Will be interesting to watch.

Where are all those guys we were excited about in the offseason?
Trill, Cisco, Courtney Jackson, Nykiem Johnson, Abdul Adams, Taj Harris, Sean Riley ... Really quiet start for most of these guys. Obviously Trill had a huge play against Liberty and Cisco had a couple picks before missing the WMU game. But overall I would say we're still waiting on all of those guys to become true difference-makers for this team. Cisco is still a bullet making a play on a ball but has to get better down-to-down making plays. Trill is a phenomenal athlete but is inconsistent. Nykiem has looked really bad so far, Courtney Jackson isn't playing, Adams had a bad fumble and, while he's had some moments, hasn't emerged as a stud RB, Taj is OK but it's been somewhat underwhelming so far and Riley averaging 7 yards a catch on 4 catches a game. Need more from these guys.

How good are the teams we've played?
This is an interesting question b/c Liberty actually has two wins and while we know they're not going to be great, is there a chance they're a frisky 4-win team? Maryland had the trap game loss at Temple (which isn't as bad a loss as it looks like on the ticker), but could very well beat PSU this week and may yet prove to be a pretty good team. Clemson is obviously ridiculous, but WMU is 2-2 with two blowouts against weak competition and two not terribly pretty losses against good competition. So have we played tough teams and made it out with a 2-2 record or do liberty and wmu stink while Maryland is only a middle of the road P5 type team? The answer to that question could make a big difference in how we view the start of this season several weeks from now.

Can our offensive line grow into something more than what it is right now?
As bad as the OL has looked at times, they kept tommy upright for good portions of UMD and WMU and we obviously ran the ball well last week. Clemson abused us, but they'll do that to a lot of people. If we can get healthy and some of the younger kids come along, that would be a really encouraging sign for many reasons.

Can we improve our tempo offensively?
There are a lot of factors in this b/c, among other things, the OL needs to be solid, we need to avoid self-destructive plays -- penalties, turnovers, poorly executed plays -- and in good shape and we need tommy to make some big plays to keep drives alive.

At the end of the day if you were grading out where we are, it would be a bit bleak. But how this team grows the next couple weeks and how they start ACC play could go a long way toward making us all feel better about this season.

Good call on that Moe Neal run. I watched that about 5 times in a row. I was reading the electric thread and I was waiting for someone to mention Moe's run there.
 
Well, they went toe.

2nd half, was PSU 38, UB 3.
they were fine until the bad interception that turned the energy around.. I was talking to PSU fans at the airpot after our maryland game.. they were genuinelly worried and completely outplayed the first half
 
Good call on that Moe Neal run. I watched that about 5 times in a row. I was reading the electric thread and I was waiting for someone to mention Moe's run there.
Neal put up big numbers rushing and receiving in high school. He has always been fast and shifty, but he was 170 LBs when he showed up at SU. Posters here were writing him off as a lead RB, or seeing his only role as a slot receiver. Big difference — he is now 195 LBs.
 
How good is Tommy?
Strong arm, good accuracy not bad overall athleticism. The improvising and moving within the pocket has improved already in four games, so that's a good sign too. I was also impressed with how he battled against Clemson right to the last throw where he got crushed (that's two games in a row where he's been left in to take a big hit for no real good reason, by the way).

What we don't know is how good Tommy can be. Can he be a guy that leads this team and this offense to a good season this year? Can he show that intangible quality that intangible quality that takes a good offense and makes it a great one? Can he sync up with his receivers so we don't throw bad picks to waiting defenders (who luckily don't always catch the ball)? Can he bail out a weak offensive line with good decisions? Will be interesting to watch.
i'm interested if you had a similar post regarding dungey after his 4th start? your second paragraph is a whole bunch of things we havent had in a long time.
 
"intangibles" which is so important to you, literally can't be defined because that is the definition of intangibles is so important to you that you used it twice
 
i'm interested if you had a similar post regarding dungey after his 4th start? your second paragraph is a whole bunch of things we havent had in a long time.

I’m with you on the long time thing but we also haven’t been good for a long time. The idea is to be good and that’s what we’re all hoping for from tommy. If you want me to judge him against RJ Anderson and perry patterson and Joe Fields, the yeah Tommy looks great. But if we’re trying to be one of the better programs in the acc then it’s tough to look at where he is right now and give him an A+.

All I’m asking is how good can he be? The tools are there but the play is inconsistent and there are areas that need improvement. Don’t really think that’s unfair or too harsh.
 
"intangibles" which is so important to you, literally can't be defined because that is the definition of intangibles is so important to you that you used it twice

I haven’t re-read the post but I apologize for any redundancy. There are things that are tougher to define about playing qb. If you were describing what made dungey a good player you’d talk more about toughness and feel than you would passing accuracy or speed. Hard to quantify those things. With devito it’s how he responds when a play is breaking down that is either a work in progress that will get better with time or a feel for the position that is just tough to teach through technique drills, film study and reps.

If it is the latter and not the former then that’s awesome. I’m not claiming to know the answer but it’s not like it would be the first time a player had outstanding skill yet wasn’t quite able to reach their potential.

If you’re all in on devito that’s cool. He looked good Saturday and has had some nice moments in Orange so here’s hoping it’s onward and upward from here. But I think it’s tough to know that.
 
All the questions are fair. Tommy was real good against WMU, but all the October and November games will be bigger tests. Not just for Tommy’s improvement — for the OL, the skill guys who have to provide more weapons, the secondary. The real season starts with NC State.
 
All the questions are fair. Tommy was real good against WMU, but all the October and November games will be bigger tests. Not just for Tommy’s improvement — for the OL, the skill guys who have to provide more weapons, the secondary. The real season starts with NC State.
Yeah I actually thought tommy battled admirably against Clemson (which I think I mentioned in there). But there are a bunch of questions within the entire team (as there are almost every season with pretty much any team not named Clemson or Bama) and we’ll know a lot more in October. Bottom line is I hope we can get healthy and make the most of the next two weeks.
 
How would this same analysis look after game 4 of last year? My memory of exactly where we were as a team after game 4 is fuzzy. I seem to recall a lot of people calling for Ward’s head. Can’t quite remember when it all turned around.
 
How would this same analysis look after game 4 of last year? My memory of exactly where we were as a team after game 4 is fuzzy. I seem to recall a lot of people calling for Ward’s head. Can’t quite remember when it all turned around.
I think we were 4-0 last year with a big W (we thought) over FSU. The defense had been brutal against WMU but we waxed Wagner, UConn and FSU. Then we played Clemson tough but the defense got pretty wobbly for the next three (Pitt, Carolina and nc state) giving up 37, 37 and 41. I think that’s where a lot of the criticism came from I think.
 
I think we were 4-0 last year with a big W (we thought) over FSU. The defense had been brutal against WMU but we waxed Wagner, UConn and FSU. Then we played Clemson tough but the defense got pretty wobbly for the next three (Pitt, Carolina and nc state) giving up 37, 37 and 41. I think that’s where a lot of the criticism came from I think.
One point. The defense allowed only 7 points in the first half against WMU, as Dungey built a huge lead. We took the foot off the gas in Q3, inserted Devito, bad things happened on offense and then the defense gave up big plays, mostly in that one quarter. Otherwise, your post is accurate.
 
I’m with you on the long time thing but we also haven’t been good for a long time. The idea is to be good and that’s what we’re all hoping for from tommy. If you want me to judge him against RJ Anderson and perry patterson and Joe Fields, the yeah Tommy looks great. But if we’re trying to be one of the better programs in the acc then it’s tough to look at where he is right now and give him an A+.

All I’m asking is how good can he be? The tools are there but the play is inconsistent and there are areas that need improvement. Don’t really think that’s unfair or too harsh.
TD's made some boneheaded plays - of course. But a lot of our offensive problems have nothing to do with him: mixed up OL, RB's not calling/executing correct protections, WR problems, etc. Those issues have amplified his inexperience. Still, there is growth - the difference between Tommy game 1 and Tommy against WMU is significant. I think this kid is the real deal and he's going to wind up being a star here.

As far as scheme (coaching), I'm also a Dino fan but I have to agree with your observations. It seems like there's a mole in our practice facility leaking plays and personnel. Opposing coaches - at least the p5 ones - seem to know everything we're going to run. However, the most likely reason for that is not bad coaching. It's that we're spoon-feeding new players on the OL and at QB. That's wha made us so predictable and vanilla the first 3 games. Thankfully, we pulled off the shovel play and two chunk QB runs against WMU! So I think we'll see more wrinkles and creativity as time goes on.

In the next few games, TD will look even better if our WRs stop running (or getting pushed) out of bounds, failing to get open on QB scrambles and quitting on routes (like Riley did against WMU almost leading to a pick). I also agree that our D needs to get organized at the 1st and 2d levels - we've been poor against the run and defending short passes in the middle. Our LB's are often out of position, and seem to be thinking about where to be instead of getting in their gaps and flying to the ball. Against, WMU, we had too much offense. But if Eskridge and Bellamy had stayed in the game it might have been a nailbiter - we had no defenders who could stick with them (again).
 
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It’s a free country do as you please but our Offense and any offense is all about the O line
If they do as well as they did vs Wm offensively we can do some damage. Everything has a domino effect ! We opened some holes and the run game helped the pass game , we gave a pocket and the pass game opened the run game .
I looked back to 2016 vs Clemson 54-0
Our 3qbs threw 3 picks my ? Is how do our O lines compare from 2016 to this years team ?
Just curious. Imo we can win out in the acc , lose out , or anywhere in between.
 
I have to believe Heckel is done for the year.
 
Every game is winnable. OL/WR issues outside Trish means we can lose any of them as well and you can't get too optimistic. It took a ton of breaks to beat WMU they had all the momentum late into the second half (losing their 2 top playmakers and fumbling through the endzone etc) and an absolutely flawless performance from our QB. I have a feeling teams are going to play well against us and every win is going to have to come in similar fashion.

At least our D can't be any friggen worse vs NC State than it was last year in the Dome. Win that and a big 9/10 win season is still pretty likely.
 
ESPN Advanced statistic/FPI after 4th game as rated against 130 teams total. For explanation of statistic see ESPN site. It's not perfect but is a good barometer if you look at Top 20 overall. Additionally, all statistical models perform much better as the amount of data increases. So the below is just a snapshot of what the input is to date.

Offensive efficiency- 99th
Defensive efficiency- 37th
Special Teams efficiency- 5th
Overall efficiency- 50th

ESPN FPI ranking - 67

FEI ranking is a points per possession model I like that also rates offensive and defensive production as a future predictor of W/L.

Offensive ranking- 96th
Defensive ranking- 49th

Overall ranking - 74

Good news is we're trending up in both. Will be interesting to revisit after 8 games.
Revisit after Holy Cross. Most programs already played 2-3 tomato cans, where we have not
 

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