FSU vs The ACC

[GHLF]

Comparing the landscape today, et al to what it was in 1998 is like comparing dial-up to fiber broadband...night and day.

Even if the boat is no longer taking on water as you allude, results on the field is what matters first and foremost. So, until there is actual data on that front in regards to Coach Fran's on field results, at this moment in time, I think that is still to be determined. Of course, as a lifelong fan of Syracuse University sports, I'm certainly routing for it.

That said, even if Coach Fran can get us back to those McNabb years type success, it still doesn't preclude Syracuse University for all of its borne dilemmas as a relatively small private type, non Flagship institution in today's landscape. ND and USC are obvious exceptions, even with both not being that relevant from a national championship standpoint with ND's last being 1988 and USC 2004.

Although, Just as the Corvette could never be confused with the Buick Skylark, either can Syracuse vs. ND/USC.

I guess we disagree, and Syracuse University certainly is not the car you referenced with all due respect. Audi Q series or higher, even presently. Certainly needs to go higher. Syracuse University Alumnus proud!! And many thanks

 

[WoadBlue]

College football fans on Reddit are odd. On one hand they cheer on the demise of the ACC and then on the other hand they clamor for the days of the conferences from 20-30 years ago.

Western corporations some time back al became piratical n that they focus moist in things like corp0rate raising ads hostile take overs. And for sports fans perhaps especially that becomes itself a type of sport. It is like people reading accounts of powerful nations angling for war as if what is dioscuy=sssed is Ohio Dt vs. Michigan or she thing. Attacking and destroying and stealing the major wealth of a league is like cheering on a side in an imperial war.

And the black heart of people tends hard to gravitater toward backing the super powerful and rich destroying the smaller and less wealthy.

 

[WoadBlue]

Be

it would be funny if the BIG invited bc and Syracuse before Clemson and FSU. How would we handle that?

With the exception of Northwestern, and now SC, all BT members are either LARGE state Flagship or land grant schools. And SC is a very large and very rich private school located in the media capital of the world LA, and has one of the nation's biggest football histories. Oh yeah - and southern CA is filled with football talent beyond that of even OH.

So how do BC and Cuse fit with all that?

 

[MSOrange]

The ACC doesn't want a solution sooner rather than later. There is nothing to be gained by the ACC to a deal. They lose their league if the settle early. No amount of money can make up for that.

I think by "people" want a solution sooner rather than later, elimu really meant "I." Practically every post he has made on this topic has been about caving as soon as possible.

 

[kcsu]

ACCN will never settle. Why would they. The only way FSU gets out is to pay in full and even with that i believe they still give up their media rights. FSU is screwed and they know it. The AD will keep spending money to keep his job and appease the crazies.

 

[elimunelson]

I think by "people" want a solution sooner rather than later, elimu really meant "I." Practically every post he has made on this topic has been about caving as soon as possible.

you’re right. I do think when a divorce is asked for the timing usually happens sooner than you think.

I’m a message board poster not someone evangelizing about what I want. I want the ACC to remain intact and for us to be fed at the big boy table.

I’m not going to be surprised if a judge sees this case more openminded than a simple breach of contract matter.

 

[elimunelson]

With the exception of Northwestern, and now SC, all BT members are either LARGE state Flagship or land grant schools. And SC is a very large and very rich private school located in the media capital of the world LA, and has one of the nation's biggest football histories. Oh yeah - and southern CA is filled with football talent beyond that of even OH.

So how do BC and Cuse fit with all that?

Big has moved their academic goalposts.

I’m saying if we were invited tomorrow (doubtful) people would take a slightly different approach to the GOR and the holes in it. We are all part of the same hypocrisy. Money is driving college sports and it’s a race to sustainability.

Very craven and gross if you ask me. But that’s where we are

 

[WoadBlue]

Woad Blue has no idea what he is talking about. how about move ACC headquarters to DC or New York City, we are ready know the answer to that. However, that is such a pertinent discussion. I guess the ACC lacked foresight, big mistake. In any event Cuse can move the stick in the Northeast, Especially if we return to relevance. We still need TV dollars Woad

Winning cures no monetary bills unless winning means large increases ins new fans who watch passionately, and remain watching.

So if a BC makes the playoffs at 13-0, BC is going to be watched simply because it is in playoffs. If that does not translate to the next season with a large increase in the number of people watching BC play regular season games then it was a whiff of smoke that means nothing. Literally. Bama could fail to win the SEC for 20 straight years and still have more TV viewers every season than BC even if BC were to win the ACC 6 or 7 times.

To use the old ACC teams as examples: SoCar football could be 5-7 for 5 consecutive years but it will average more than 70,000 fans per game and large TV numbers. Over that same period Wake could go 9-3 every season, and Wake will average no more than 30,000 per game and have TV numbers smaller than those of SoCar - perhaps MUCH smaller.

TV pays for those TV viewers, proven and loyal TV viewers - not for anybody's wins.

Your hope is that Cuse can put together a bigger winning streak ion years that it can deliver big TV numbers. It could, but at whose expense> If at the expense of BC and Pitt, that does not help the ACC TV numbers. If at the expense of UVA and VT, same problem for the ACC.

Now if Cuse could gain those new viewers at the eons of Penn St that would be worth a whole lot. But what would that take? Much more than just more wins that PSU.

And then we still have the northeast. The region by and large just does not care about CFB. That's why Boston media cared virtually 0 about Matt Ryan as Heisman candidate the same season BC was ranked highly and playing for the ACC championship.

What happened to the northeast before the BE was even formed is now happening on the Left Coast. That is what happened to the Pac's TV numbers. People living in PST just do not care about Major college sports the way they did even in 1990, and that was less than they did in 1970. That downward trend has been going on for more than a half century. And thus the Pac is now dead.

History declares emphatically that the only way that the ACC was going to gain from adding any schools north of just over the Mason-Dixon Llne was if Penn St were part of the group. PSU in the ACC playing Pitt, Cuse, and BC annually would make a big difference. AS would PSU also playing UVA and VT and UNC and GT and Miami, etc. Of course, PSU is a HUGE land grant school with an old and deep football history, as well as a filled 100,000 seat stadium.

What PSU is is what makes a league have a fat TV deal. What BC and Wake are is what makes a league have a poor TV deal.

 

[WoadBlue]

Big has moved their academic goalposts.

I’m saying if we were invited tomorrow (doubtful) people would take a slightly different approach to the GOR and the holes in it. We are all part of the same hypocrisy. Money is driving college sports and it’s a race to sustainability.

Very craven and gross if you ask me. But that’s where we are

Academic goalposts are not the issue. The issue is that any state flagship or land grant that has a sports history has a large and loyal fan base. TV pays for that large and loyal fan base. AAU status is not ny part of that equation. Just ask Bama and LSU and Tennessee fans.

The ACC has only 2 state flagships: UNC and UVA, and neither of us has a major football history or a huge stadium filled every week. The ACC has only 3 land grant schools: Clemson, NCSU, and VT. Only Clemson has an 80,000 seat stadium and big football history. VT is close but still small time by land grant standards in the SEC.

Now for the 16 school SEC: Vandy is the only private. Bama and Texas (both flagship), Tennessee and LSU (both are both flagship and land grant), and TAMU (land grant) average over 100K per game. UGA and UF (both are both flagship and land grant) average 90K. OU (flagship) is now planning to expand to pass 90K seats. Even Arkansas (both flagship and land grant) has a 76K (10K more seats than VT has) stadium filled virtually every week.

You either grasp what such things mean or you do not.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Big has moved their academic goalposts.

I’m saying if we were invited tomorrow (doubtful) people would take a slightly different approach to the GOR and the holes in it. We are all part of the same hypocrisy. Money is driving college sports and it’s a race to sustainability.

Very craven and gross if you ask me. But that’s where we are

Zero legal evidence there’s holes in the GOR. You can’t even state what they are except “feelings”. If FSU or anyone else wants to leave they can. They just have to pay the exit fee.

 

[orange79]

Big has moved their academic goalposts.

I’m saying if we were invited tomorrow (doubtful) people would take a slightly different approach to the GOR and the holes in it. We are all part of the same hypocrisy. Money is driving college sports and it’s a race to sustainability.

Very craven and gross if you ask me. But that’s where we are

Please list said "holes".

 

[rocklloyd]

i don't get any of the sentiment to settle anything with the schools who want to leave. You want to leave early? you pay. Cut and dry. You think you can break the GOR? Go for it, but like others have said it will lead to CFB chaos and I'd have to think some of the best and brightest have tried to punch holes in them. the only option from some of these schools is to wait 4/5 years until the exit fees become more manageable. and even then we're still talking sizable number to go where?

 

[kcsu]

Winning cures no monetary bills unless winning means large increases ins new fans who watch passionately, and remain watching.

So if a BC makes the playoffs at 13-0, BC is going to be watched simply because it is in playoffs. If that does not translate to the next season with a large increase in the number of people watching BC play regular season games then it was a whiff of smoke that means nothing. Literally. Bama could fail to win the SEC for 20 straight years and still have more TV viewers every season than BC even if BC were to win the ACC 6 or 7 times.

To use the old ACC teams as examples: SoCar football could be 5-7 for 5 consecutive years but it will average more than 70,000 fans per game and large TV numbers. Over that same period Wake could go 9-3 every season, and Wake will average no more than 30,000 per game and have TV numbers smaller than those of SoCar - perhaps MUCH smaller.

TV pays for those TV viewers, proven and loyal TV viewers - not for anybody's wins.

Your hope is that Cuse can put together a bigger winning streak ion years that it can deliver big TV numbers. It could, but at whose expense> If at the expense of BC and Pitt, that does not help the ACC TV numbers. If at the expense of UVA and VT, same problem for the ACC.

Now if Cuse could gain those new viewers at the eons of Penn St that would be worth a whole lot. But what would that take? Much more than just more wins that PSU.

And then we still have the northeast. The region by and large just does not care about CFB. That's why Boston media cared virtually 0 about Matt Ryan as Heisman candidate the same season BC was ranked highly and playing for the ACC championship.

What happened to the northeast before the BE was even formed is now happening on the Left Coast. That is what happened to the Pac's TV numbers. People living in PST just do not care about Major college sports the way they did even in 1990, and that was less than they did in 1970. That downward trend has been going on for more than a half century. And thus the Pac is now dead.

History declares emphatically that the only way that the ACC was going to gain from adding any schools north of just over the Mason-Dixon Llne was if Penn St were part of the group. PSU in the ACC playing Pitt, Cuse, and BC annually would make a big difference. AS would PSU also playing UVA and VT and UNC and GT and Miami, etc. Of course, PSU is a HUGE land grant school with an old and deep football history, as well as a filled 100,000 seat stadium.

What PSU is is what makes a league have a fat TV deal. What BC and Wake are is what makes a league have a poor TV deal.

Cuse usually pulls good ratings for both Football and bball

 

[kcsu]

i don't get any of the sentiment to settle anything with the schools who want to leave. You want to leave early? you pay. Cut and dry. You think you can break the GOR? Go for it, but like others have said it will lead to CFB chaos and I'd have to think some of the best and brightest have tried to punch holes in them. the only option from some of these schools is to wait 4/5 years until the exit fees become more manageable. and even then we're still talking sizable number to go where?

FSU and Clemson have clear paths to the playoffs each year in the ACC. In the SEC they can forget about it they might stand a chance in the Big 10. With the money that they make in the ACC and the bonus they would get if they made the playoffs, they have more than enough to complete for a championship every year. I must be missing something but the old saying don't ask for what you might get screams to me about these teams looking to leave. I just don't get it.

 

[Cusester]

Cuse usually pulls good ratings for both Football and bball

Prediction- we are about to leave NC's viewership ratings in the proverbial dust.

 

[Qbobby]

Please list said "holes".

 

[orangecuse]

Winning cures no monetary bills unless winning means large increases ins new fans who watch passionately, and remain watching.

So if a BC makes the playoffs at 13-0, BC is going to be watched simply because it is in playoffs. If that does not translate to the next season with a large increase in the number of people watching BC play regular season games then it was a whiff of smoke that means nothing. Literally. Bama could fail to win the SEC for 20 straight years and still have more TV viewers every season than BC even if BC were to win the ACC 6 or 7 times.

To use the old ACC teams as examples: SoCar football could be 5-7 for 5 consecutive years but it will average more than 70,000 fans per game and large TV numbers. Over that same period Wake could go 9-3 every season, and Wake will average no more than 30,000 per game and have TV numbers smaller than those of SoCar - perhaps MUCH smaller.

TV pays for those TV viewers, proven and loyal TV viewers - not for anybody's wins.

Your hope is that Cuse can put together a bigger winning streak ion years that it can deliver big TV numbers. It could, but at whose expense> If at the expense of BC and Pitt, that does not help the ACC TV numbers. If at the expense of UVA and VT, same problem for the ACC.

Now if Cuse could gain those new viewers at the eons of Penn St that would be worth a whole lot. But what would that take? Much more than just more wins that PSU.

And then we still have the northeast. The region by and large just does not care about CFB. That's why Boston media cared virtually 0 about Matt Ryan as Heisman candidate the same season BC was ranked highly and playing for the ACC championship.

What happened to the northeast before the BE was even formed is now happening on the Left Coast. That is what happened to the Pac's TV numbers. People living in PST just do not care about Major college sports the way they did even in 1990, and that was less than they did in 1970. That downward trend has been going on for more than a half century. And thus the Pac is now dead.

History declares emphatically that the only way that the ACC was going to gain from adding any schools north of just over the Mason-Dixon Llne was if Penn St were part of the group. PSU in the ACC playing Pitt, Cuse, and BC annually would make a big difference. AS would PSU also playing UVA and VT and UNC and GT and Miami, etc. Of course, PSU is a HUGE land grant school with an old and deep football history, as well as a filled 100,000 seat stadium.

What PSU is is what makes a league have a fat TV deal. What BC and Wake are is what makes a league have a poor TV deal.

Academic goalposts are not the issue. The issue is that any state flagship or land grant that has a sports history has a large and loyal fan base. TV pays for that large and loyal fan base. AAU status is not ny part of that equation. Just ask Bama and LSU and Tennessee fans.

The ACC has only 2 state flagships: UNC and UVA, and neither of us has a major football history or a huge stadium filled every week. The ACC has only 3 land grant schools: Clemson, NCSU, and VT. Only Clemson has an 80,000 seat stadium and big football history. VT is close but still small time by land grant standards in the SEC.

Now for the 16 school SEC: Vandy is the only private. Bama and Texas (both flagship), Tennessee and LSU (both are both flagship and land grant), and TAMU (land grant) average over 100K per game. UGA and UF (both are both flagship and land grant) average 90K. OU (flagship) is now planning to expand to pass 90K seats. Even Arkansas (both flagship and land grant) has a 76K (10K more seats than VT has) stadium filled virtually every week.

You either grasp what such things mean or you do not.

A lot of truth here. And, undoubtedly, it's the most significant crux that a school the likes of Syracuse has relative to the foreseeable future P2 expansion. Unfortunately, it's a very tough/painful pill for many folks to swallow, especially with many of us being biased diehards. Therefore, deflection vs. the much more difficult reflection occurs, resulting in the apparent lack to "grasp what such things mean."

Moreover, it's likely why I haven't really seen anyone here able to convincingly address same, or at least enough to persuade and overcome the overwhelming dilemmas you make for a school the likes of Syracuse University.

 

[GHLF]

Winning cures no monetary bills unless winning means large increases ins new fans who watch passionately, and remain watching.

So if a BC makes the playoffs at 13-0, BC is going to be watched simply because it is in playoffs. If that does not translate to the next season with a large increase in the number of people watching BC play regular season games then it was a whiff of smoke that means nothing. Literally. Bama could fail to win the SEC for 20 straight years and still have more TV viewers every season than BC even if BC were to win the ACC 6 or 7 times.

To use the old ACC teams as examples: SoCar football could be 5-7 for 5 consecutive years but it will average more than 70,000 fans per game and large TV numbers. Over that same period Wake could go 9-3 every season, and Wake will average no more than 30,000 per game and have TV numbers smaller than those of SoCar - perhaps MUCH smaller.

TV pays for those TV viewers, proven and loyal TV viewers - not for anybody's wins.

Your hope is that Cuse can put together a bigger winning streak ion years that it can deliver big TV numbers. It could, but at whose expense> If at the expense of BC and Pitt, that does not help the ACC TV numbers. If at the expense of UVA and VT, same problem for the ACC.

Now if Cuse could gain those new viewers at the eons of Penn St that would be worth a whole lot. But what would that take? Much more than just more wins that PSU.

And then we still have the northeast. The region by and large just does not care about CFB. That's why Boston media cared virtually 0 about Matt Ryan as Heisman candidate the same season BC was ranked highly and playing for the ACC championship.

What happened to the northeast before the BE was even formed is now happening on the Left Coast. That is what happened to the Pac's TV numbers. People living in PST just do not care about Major college sports the way they did even in 1990, and that was less than they did in 1970. That downward trend has been going on for more than a half century. And thus the Pac is now dead.

History declares emphatically that the only way that the ACC was going to gain from adding any schools north of just over the Mason-Dixon Llne was if Penn St were part of the group. PSU in the ACC playing Pitt, Cuse, and BC annually would make a big difference. AS would PSU also playing UVA and VT and UNC and GT and Miami, etc. Of course, PSU is a HUGE land grant school with an old and deep football history, as well as a filled 100,000 seat stadium.

What PSU is is what makes a league have a fat TV deal. What BC and Wake are is what makes a league have a poor TV deal.

We are not BC, nor Wake, Our mistake was our literal and almost fatal lack of strategic planning and investment. I believe this University is committed to major College sports as well as Olympic sports that they feel we can compete in. I believe it fits consistently with the academic plan of the University in relation to exposure, enrollment and empowerment initiatives. Certainly cannot leave out student experience as well. If we do not compete, this will all be moot, however if we do, which I believe we can the place is electrifying. Please remember, the key word is compete. Good day

 

[DoctorBombay]

A lot of truth here. And, undoubtedly, it's the most significant crux that a school the likes of Syracuse has relative to the foreseeable future P2 expansion. Unfortunately, it's a very tough/painful pill for many folks to swallow, especially with many of us being biased diehards. Therefore, deflection vs. the much more difficult reflection occurs, resulting in the apparent lack to "grasp what such things mean."

Moreover, it's likely why I haven't really seen anyone here able to convincingly addresses same, or least enough to persuade and overcome the overwhelming dilemmas you make for a school the likes of Syracuse University.

The issue for me is not whether the ACC will be "altered"...it will. The question is whether it will survive and thrive...and how.
An ACC w/out FSU and Clemson, but with an ACCN and access to the CFP, is not a bad deal for SU, and certainly better than some abomination w/ the Big12.
The key now is to hold the departing programs feet to the fire, not fold immediately for no apparent reason.
Get as much as possible from whomever wants to leave, then move forward.

 

[orangecuse]

The issue for me is not whether the ACC will be "altered"...it will. The question is whether it will survive and thrive...and how.
An ACC w/out FSU and Clemson, an ACCN and access to the CFP, is not a bad deal for SU, and certainly better than some abomination w/ the Big12.
The key now is to hold the departing programs feet to the fire, not fold immediately for no apparent reason.
Get as much as possible from whomever wants to leave, then move forward.

An ACC without FSU and Clemson is not the problem. It's UNC and UVA that hold the key to the kingdom. If this thing falls apart before the GOR expires, the later two will simply spin how they weren't the ones to start the dominoes and how their hand was forced to act in their best interests, etc. Even when all along, undoubtedly, they were behind the scenes, laying low in the tall grass, positioning, ready to pounce, like a lion on its prey, once most optimal.

 

[TheCusian]

The bet is that while we are not a public land grant university, that our population base can make up the gap in viewership. Thanks to rampant cheating and our own lack of planning, missteps - we don’t know what kind of ratings a dominant NYS football team could produce in this market.

Anybody saying we’re left off is betting against NYS sports fans galvanizing behind a resurgent Syracuse team.

Lucky for us we have an AD and more importantly a HC who believes that can happen.

 

[elimunelson]

Please list said "holes".

I think it’s ironclad personally speaking.

But if SU was invited our opinion of exiting the ACC would change significantly

 

[kcsu]

I think it’s ironclad personally speaking.

But if SU was invited our opinion of exciting the ACC would change significantly

I personally want SU to remain in the ACC. I think that it is a good fit all around for our sports teams. As long as the ACC is in a solid third position and has a seat at the table i believe it is the best place for SU. I do think that we could compete in the Big 10 but that it would be much harder. If FSU and Clemson leave and we replace them with good revenue producing schools i think we will be fine.

 

[elimunelson]

Cuse usually pulls good ratings for both Football and bball

Agreed. Our football has been an issue since 1998 consistently less about facilities imo and the decision making of the coaches we hired and their lack of vision

Robinson Marrone Shafer and Dino weren’t big thinking operators. Wr alr

The bet is that while we are not a public land grant university, that our population base can make up the gap in viewership. Thanks to rampant cheating and our own lack of planning, missteps - we don’t know what kind of ratings a dominant NYS football team could produce in this market.

Anybody saying we’re left off is betting against NYS sports fans galvanizing behind a resurgent Syracuse team.

Lucky for us we have an AD and more importantly a HC who believes that can happen.

this is true. We finally have a vision again

Hasn’t been that way since Crouthamel left. All these bozos since coaching and admin were small potato thinkers. Jake built the big east. Def let other stuff calcify but at one point we were a vision program

 

[elimunelson]

I personally want SU to remain in the ACC. I think that it is a good fit all around for our sports teams. As long as the ACC is in a solid third position and has a seat at the table i believe it is the best place for SU. I do think that we could compete in the Big 10 but that it would be much harder. If FSU and Clemson leave and we replace them with good revenue producing schools i think we will be fine.

That’s workable to me. Financially speaking not sure that allows us to keep Fran if the big boys are 2x money but we shall see.

I am not anti Syracuse.