FSU vs The ACC | Page 39 | Syracusefan.com

FSU vs The ACC

Do NFL players opt out of the playoffs? Do conference champions get left out of the NFL playoffs? Are playoff teams determined by some arbitrary set of rules that’s changes not only each year but week to week? Do NFL players switch teams every 1-3 years? Does the NFL enforce its rules against teams who cheat or break the rules?

CFB definitely doesn’t want to do anything to resemble the terrible, poorly run NFL.
I did not say the NFL is not well-run.

I just think the college model proposed would be redundant. If you like the NFL, why would you settle for NFL-Lite? If you don't care for the NFL you're not enamored of more of the same.
 
I respectfully disagree with your opinion. Please explain why ESPN and the ACC (as well as each individual ACC school) should agree to a deal with FSU that only benefits FSU. FSU can pay the withdrawal fee and buy back their rights at any time. What FSU cannot do is fund the withdrawal fee and the TV rights buyback. What benefit does ESPN and the ACC receive in allowing a sole school throwing a tantrum as if they are a three-year-old?

If there is not a benefit to ESPN and the ACC, there is no basis to negotiate with FSU.
Because if it goes to court and for some crazy reason, FSU wins….the GOR worthless and we don’t have a conference any longer. If you are the ACC, you better be darn sure this is air tight or else your conference implodes.
 
Because if it goes to court and for some crazy reason, FSU wins….the GOR worthless and we don’t have a conference any longer. If you are the ACC, you better be darn sure this is air tight or else your conference implodes.
You are correct. However, it has been pointed out, ad nauseum, that several schools within and without the ACC have reviewed the GOR, as have many private law firms. GORs are not new documents, having been used in the entertainment industry long before conference TV deals. They have been upheld time and again. Further, UT, OU, USC, and UCLA all attempted to break the GOR and assessed it to not be worth the trouble, within the last few years. UVA, UNC, Clemson, VATech, UMiami, and NCState have likewise concluded the same. The SEC and the B1G refused to get involved with any discussion of early release as they were avoiding any appearance of interference with an existing contract.

Finally, FSU is a competent institution, agreed to the ACC withdrawal agreement and the GOR. Their lawyers agreed to it and the school signed off on the deals. FSU pushed for the large withdrawal fee. FSU pushed for the GOR. It remains unlikely that a court will uphold FSU's arguments and throw away the agreements.

Besides, if the GOR falls apart, then all GORs fall apart. If FSU is able to negotiate a less expensive buyout, then GORs are no longer worth the paper they are written on. Far more is at stake than the ACC's GOR.

Remember, courts generally review contracts as valid documents and will only void them for certain reasons. FSU has failed to legitimately argue a reason that a decent court will uphold FSU's filing was very one-sided and conveniently left out many pertinent facts which a court is likely to find that disprove FSU's arguments.

Anyway, much has been written on this issue in this thread by several attorneys. You may wish to read through their opinions.
 
Half a billion dollars is a lot of money for one state's budget.
FSU's budget is their own. State schools may receive funding from the state but they state does not dictate the school budget. FSU will have a hard time forcing the state to pay FSU's withdrawal fee and buy back their TV rights so they can join another unknown conference, which may be worse off than the ACC. This status weakens their arguments in court. FSU made the contract on their own, they will face the consequences, good and bad, on their own.

Besides, will any UF grad in the legislature support FSU? Miami grad? UCF? USF? FSU is likely on an island within their own state on this issue.

For the record: Governor Ron DeSantis Announces the Focus on Florida’s Future Budget Recommendations for Fiscal Year 2024-2025

DeSantis' budget for 2024-2025 is targeted at $114B. FSU's buyout would be about half of 1% of Florida's annual budget.
 
Because if it goes to court and for some crazy reason, FSU wins….the GOR worthless and we don’t have a conference any longer. If you are the ACC, you better be darn sure this is air tight or else your conference implodes.
Well, if it happens that somehow FSU succeeds; then bring on the chaos. CFB is so screwed up right now anyway. Maybe when the dust settles, common sense might prevail. I doubt I’ll be around to see it happen though.
 
I did not say the NFL is not well-run.

I just think the college model proposed would be redundant. If you like the NFL, why would you settle for NFL-Lite? If you don't care for the NFL you're not enamored of more of the same.
Correct. I think a big error is being made in part because people know about European soccer 'minor leagues' having fairly large fan bases. People in Britain do watch a lot of non-Premier League soccer. But European soccer cannot be translated into American football. If Major CFB becomes basically an NFL Triple A, then people will respond by watching only to see the next star emerge into the NFL.
 
FSU's budget is their own. State schools may receive funding from the state but they state does not dictate the school budget. FSU will have a hard time forcing the state to pay FSU's withdrawal fee and buy back their TV rights so they can join another unknown conference, which may be worse off than the ACC. This status weakens their arguments in court. FSU made the contract on their own, they will face the consequences, good and bad, on their own.

Besides, will any UF grad in the legislature support FSU? Miami grad? UCF? USF? FSU is likely on an island within their own state on this issue.

For the record: Governor Ron DeSantis Announces the Focus on Florida’s Future Budget Recommendations for Fiscal Year 2024-2025

DeSantis' budget for 2024-2025 is targeted at $114B. FSU's buyout would be about half of 1% of Florida's annual budget.

Florida State's total endowment is $848M. Paying $500M+ to the ACC would blow a hole in that.
Florida State is an agency of the State government, so the State is technically it's guarantor, if it were to go bankrupt. The State's entire Education budget, for K-12, community colleges and State colleges, is around $13.4 billion, but last year, 10% of that total was diverted through their voucher program to private (a/k/a parochial) primary and secondary education. It would hurt.
 
I did not say the NFL is not well-run.

I just think the college model proposed would be redundant. If you like the NFL, why would you settle for NFL-Lite? If you don't care for the NFL you're not enamored of more of the same.
Take a look at my suggested divisions . They are built around old conferences with some geographical changes.

All it does is take those old conferences and bring them under two major umbrella’s and gives every team a chance to with a trophy at the end of the season. You can still keep bowls as part of post season neutral sites for the last couple of rounds.
 
You are correct. However, it has been pointed out, ad nauseum, that several schools within and without the ACC have reviewed the GOR, as have many private law firms. GORs are not new documents, having been used in the entertainment industry long before conference TV deals. They have been upheld time and again. Further, UT, OU, USC, and UCLA all attempted to break the GOR and assessed it to not be worth the trouble, within the last few years. UVA, UNC, Clemson, VATech, UMiami, and NCState have likewise concluded the same. The SEC and the B1G refused to get involved with any discussion of early release as they were avoiding any appearance of interference with an existing contract.

Finally, FSU is a competent institution, agreed to the ACC withdrawal agreement and the GOR. Their lawyers agreed to it and the school signed off on the deals. FSU pushed for the large withdrawal fee. FSU pushed for the GOR. It remains unlikely that a court will uphold FSU's arguments and throw away the agreements.

Besides, if the GOR falls apart, then all GORs fall apart. If FSU is able to negotiate a less expensive buyout, then GORs are no longer worth the paper they are written on. Far more is at stake than the ACC's GOR.

Remember, courts generally review contracts as valid documents and will only void them for certain reasons. FSU has failed to legitimately argue a reason that a decent court will uphold FSU's filing was very one-sided and conveniently left out many pertinent facts which a court is likely to find that disprove FSU's arguments.

Anyway, much has been written on this issue in this thread by several attorneys. You may wish to read through their opinions.
Someone asked why would the ACC negotiate and settle. I simply responded with a reason WHY they might consider that. To protect against a judge making a bad ruling. Attorneys are generally adverse to risk. That’s why many cases settle before seeing the floor of a courtroom.
 
Florida State's total endowment is $848M. Paying $500M+ to the ACC would blow a hole in that.
Florida State is an agency of the State government, so the State is technically it's guarantor, if it were to go bankrupt. The State's entire Education budget, for K-12, community colleges and State colleges, is around $13.4 billion, but last year, 10% of that total was diverted through their voucher program to private (a/k/a parochial) primary and secondary education. It would hurt.
A school absolutely can not use their endowment on “whatever” they want. Endowments are legally restricted to be used for the donor’s intended purposes. So that’s off the table.

A breakup fee will likely be funded by debt and/or some sugar daddy(s).

Hypothetical: I could see FSU and the ACC settling on say $400M to avoid threatening the GOR with FSU retaining their media rights. Maybe donors pull together $100M of that fee. FSU borrows $300M in debt for the rest. The extra $30M a year they get from the annual BIG distribution would service this debt over roughly 15 years (with interest).

That’s not so crazy a hole to crawl out of when you break it down like that.
 
Someone asked why would the ACC negotiate and settle. I simply responded with a reason WHY they might consider that. To protect against a judge making a bad ruling. Attorneys are generally adverse to risk. That’s why many cases settle before seeing the floor of a courtroom.
FSU has no leverage. Do not concede an inch.

Good attorneys aren’t risk adverse, they are good at assessing it and providing advice to their clients on how to mitigate it.
 
Florida State's total endowment is $848M. Paying $500M+ to the ACC would blow a hole in that.
Florida State is an agency of the State government, so the State is technically it's guarantor, if it were to go bankrupt. The State's entire Education budget, for K-12, community colleges and State colleges, is around $13.4 billion, but last year, 10% of that total was diverted through their voucher program to private (a/k/a parochial) primary and secondary education. It would hurt.
I agree, the exit costs would hurt. However, the state is not going to pay the exit fee. I have argued all along that FSU lacks the resources to buy their way out. FSU'S offer of $100MM last summer, the farce that it was, was not funded and conditioned on supporters and a payment over time. FSU's endowment likely prohibits the use of most of the funds from sports.

I am adding that FSU cannot force the State to pay for FSU's exit. State entities are fee to operate within their parameters but not able to force the legislature to do as the state entity wishes.

Further, the state could pay (1/2 of 1% of the annual budget) but is not going to do so for many reasons. The legislature can get involved if they believe they need up. I think FSU buying out of the ACC contract is enough to garner legislative review.

As to FSU going bankrupt, I am not sure bankruptcy is in the picture.

I think our arguments may be closer than may appear.
 
Someone asked why would the ACC negotiate and settle. I simply responded with a reason WHY they might consider that. To protect against a judge making a bad ruling. Attorneys are generally adverse to risk. That’s why many cases settle before seeing the floor of a courtroom.
Your points are valid. However, the points must be viewed en toto with the facts on the ground. Lawyers are risk adverse because of the duties owed to their clients. However, FSU has failed up produce a reasonable claim. No attorney should negotiate until FSU does so, there remains no basis to negotiate.
 
Hypothetical: I could see FSU and the ACC settling on say $400M to avoid threatening the GOR with FSU retaining their media rights. Maybe donors pull together $100M of that fee. FSU borrows $300M in debt for the rest. The extra $30M a year they get from the annual BIG distribution would service this debt over roughly 15 years (with interest).

That’s not so crazy a hole to crawl out of when you break it down like that.
In your hypothetical, FSU breaks even in 15 years, which is longer than running out the ACC deal and cashing in earlier.

Additionally, your numbers are generous. FSU readily admits the minimum buyout (withdrawal fee plus TV rights buyback) would be $572MM, nearly 50% more than your settlement in the hypo. FSU's real break even point is probably 2-3 decades instead of 15 years.

Finally, FSU has no bargaining power. The ACC is fighting their claims. If FSU wins, no GORs are valid. That means the B1G and SEC deals aren't solid. If the schools can break GOR, so can the broadcasters and streaming services. Contracts obligate all parties and are generally upheld in court.

There remains no basis to negotiate with FSU.
 
The biggest issue with the hypothetical is thinking how much extra money they’d have from switching conferences to pay off their debt. FSU won’t get a full share other B10 teams get for about 10 years.

“Oregon and Washington will receive 50% shares of Big Ten media rights revenue to the tune of $30 million in 2024 with annual $1 million escalators” (CBS sports)

There’s no way FSU is going to get a bigger payout the first 10 years then the B10 agreed to with the former PAC teams. FSU might actually lose money at least the first 5 years. I’ve been saying for awhile on here, I think it could take FSU 20 or more years just to break even if they have to pay close to 500 mill to leave. The numbers don’t make sense at all for FSU to leave this early. Then tack on the cost of travel. Washington is projecting it will cost them potentially 10 mill more in travel costs joining the B10. Let’s say it’s only 7 mill for FSU. Then they’ll also feel obligated to upgrade facilities, spend more in recruiting, do everything they do now at an elevated level to compete in the B10. All of that costs more $ while they’ll actually be making less $ at first, by leaving the ACC.
 
As much as I felt bad for FSU being left out, the committee unfortunately did the right thing. Never mind the guys who didn’t play yesterday against UGA, they would have been demolished with no QB. Just like us!
If everybody was able to play for both teams, FSU still would have lost, but not as badly.
 
In regards to super conferences and paying players, one possibility that I haven't seen any discussion on is the response by the NFL. Would they then feel able to treat college football as a competitor and start scheduling games on Saturdays? They are leaving a lot of money on the table by failing to do so.
 
In regards to super conferences and paying players, one possibility that I haven't seen any discussion on is the response by the NFL. Would they then feel able to treat college football as a competitor and start scheduling games on Saturdays? They are leaving a lot of money on the table by failing to do so.
It doesn’t do the league any good to harm college football. It’s their source of cheap labor and future stars.
 
Because if it goes to court and for some crazy reason, FSU wins….the GOR worthless and we don’t have nobody has a conference any longer. If you are the ACC, you better be darn sure this is air tight or else your conference implodes.
FIFY.

The ideal situation for both Fox and ESPN is for the FL judge to say that the case has to be decided in NC and for the NC judge to throw the case out just on the pretrial documents, depositions, etc., saying that FSU hasn't proved its case and GoRs are perfectly legit.

Why do I say they want GoRs upheld? Because if GoRs are killed that affects their properties, the SEC and B1G, as well. "Nobody wants to leave the SEC and B1G because of all the money they get from the TV contract" until they're offered more to join a conference of just bluebloods. Saban is already on record as not wanting to subsidize Vanderbilt anymore. The votes aren't there to expel Vanderbilt, but if there's nothing keeping Bama in the SEC when this bluebloods-only conference is proposed, well ... ESPN and Fox don't want to get into a bidding war with themselves. As people have noted here, the revenue stream in the future may not be large enough to pay the same amount that is paid now. Much as this bluebloods-only conference intrigues them, neither wants to pay way more in the future for it than they pay now, especially when the revenue streams are a huge question mark.
 

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