Future Campus Framework Discussion

[xc84]

It has been done before, BC arena in Canada.

The not losing games does make it more complex but not converting to a retractable roof makes it less complex than what we are doing.

BC Place is nothing like this. Totally different design. What SU is doing is very unique. BC Place is also notorious for cost overruns which SU can't afford. The retractable nature does not make it that much more complex...just more costly.

 

[NJCuse97]

BC Place is nothing like this. Totally different design. What SU is doing is very unique. BC Place is also notorious for cost overruns which SU can't afford. The retractable nature does not make it that much more complex...just more costly.

For the record I had a conversation with a former SU planning and facilities lead when he or she was still at SU. I was told straight that they were aware of and had investigated BC Place as a model. It seemed to me then (2 years ago?) they had no intention of going that route

 

[xc84]

For the record I had a conversation with a former SU planning and facilities lead when he or she was still at SU. I was told straight that they were aware of and had investigated BC Place as a model. It seemed to me then (2 years ago?) they had no intention of going that route

Thankfully! That is a monstrosity that was way over budget and there are lots if issues with the retractable nature of it. It is cable supported (with masts), very unlike the renderings of the dome roof. Maintenance costs of the roof alone were $348,096 in 2014 mainly due to the crappy retractable nature of it. I think there was a lot of lessons learned from it on what not to do.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The not losing games does make it more complex.

I hope the motivation to not lose any games is not the most important variable but it sure sounds like it is becoming an unnecessary obstacle. Again, if season-ticket-holders knew what the trade-offs were, the AD might find that we're willing to ride out a lost season or two in exchange for a product that will please the vast majority of stakeholders.

My biggest fear is that they will make critical cheap-ash decisions that they leave no possibility for future modifications. But since this is all coming down to money, I'm surprised Destiny has not made a push for naming rights. They're all about tourism, and nothing is more important to tourism than advertising.

 

[xc84]

I hope the motivation to not lose any games is not the most important variable but it sure sounds like it is becoming an unnecessary obstacle. Again, if season-ticket-holders knew what the trade-offs were, the AD might find that we're willing to ride out a lost season or two in exchange for a product that will please the vast majority of stakeholders.

My biggest fear is that they will make critical cheap-ash decisions that they leave no possibility for future modifications. But since this is all coming down to money, I'm surprised Destiny has not made a push for naming rights. They're all about tourism, and nothing is more important to tourism than advertising.

Losing games is bad from an image standpoint and revenue. If they move games, they have to rent space and will have lower fan turnout. It just looks bad too...even if just for a year. Hurts recruiting, etc. Season ticket holders are not the main concern here though it will certainly hurt there too as many won't be season tickets for the "lost season". Again, not good for revenue or image. It's an extremely important variable.

 

[OttoMets]

Losing games is bad from an image standpoint and revenue. If they move games, they have to rent space and will have lower fan turnout. It just looks bad too...even if just for a year. Hurts recruiting, etc. Season ticket holders are not the main concern here though it will certainly hurt there too as many won't be season tickets for the "lost season". Again, not good for revenue or image. It's an extremely important variable.

This will sound more negative than intended, but inertia is what maintains the season ticket base at its current level.

If they shut the building down for a year or two and lose 100% of the season ticket holders, a huge percentage of those people won't come back.

 

[xc84]

This will sound more negative than intended, but inertia is what maintains the season ticket base at its current level.

If they shut the building down for a year or two and lose 100% of the season ticket holders, a huge percentage of those people won't come back.

No question. It's why they are really trying hard to eliminate season disruptions but it makes it much more complex.

 

[upperdeck]

This will sound more negative than intended, but inertia is what maintains the season ticket base at its current level.

If they shut the building down for a year or two and lose 100% of the season ticket holders, a huge percentage of those people won't come back.

what do you think is huge? 10% 30% 50%

if the dome comes back better than ever and the team has not totally tanked you think more than 5-10% might not come back?

looking at our base we only have 20-25K to start with

bball might take a bigger hit than fball and that might happen anyway with the coaching change

 

[OttoMets]

what do you think is huge? 10% 30% 50%

if the dome comes back better than ever and the team has not totally tanked you think more than 5-10% might not come back?

looking at our base we only have 20-25K to start with

bball might take a bigger hit than fball and that might happen anyway with the coaching change

Of course I have no way of knowing, but my general thought when I made the post:

30-40% loss for hoops, 20-30% for football (would be higher, but it's so far diminished to begin with, I think a lot of the diehards would come back).

If a renovated building comes with steep PSL fees or significantly higher ticket prices, the guesses go out the window. But in general, it's just so much easier to log into my account today and give them a credit card number than it is to track down lost fans and get them to commit.

 

[SU68]

A post from you in response to someone questioning your facts as speculation about 18 months ago:
So I was just wondering... are you sticking by your proclamation and timeline for announcement? Lots of different opinions voiced but your "information" sounded the most definitive and caused the thread to go viral, so to speak. Not trying to put you on the spot, but I also don't want to get too excited and have that balloon pop if the only real "news" is that SU is still in the conceptual phase mulling their options.

I have no problem replying to this. I have a friend that has seen the plans for a renovation to the dome. Now to be fair my friend isn't very smart. I was told the roof was retractable obviously he was wrong. I was also told the it was either going into the law building or tearing it down obviously the law building was actually archibald. so do I have a few points wrong, yes but hey the wrong info I was fed entertained everyone.

So first, let me apologize to you. I reread my post and I see how I may have come off wrong, as a jerk. I didn't mean to sound like a jerk, but you are very up and down and flitter back and forth between knowing things as fact and getting angry because people don't immediately believe you (some of them with information too) and then this latest one where you've gone to the opposite polarity and not only were your facts now guesses, but also you can't see how the University will do anything good, which you see as the norm. Something will get done. It has to. It may not be a new stadium, or a renovation of a scale to make the place feel new, but it will be a substantial change (again, it has to be) and will bring good attention to the University's AD. Donors are the key in determining what it will ultimately be. That said, they genuinely are still in the very early stages. The simple irony is that while "we want the world and we want it now", the less we do, the faster it is likely to happen. The University needs to strike a balance, and I believe many will be disappointed because we've all built such grand images in our heads of professional multi-billion dollar facilities in Dallas and Minnesota. I only hope the majority of people will be pleased and see it as a huge step in the right direction.

NJ, you seem to have sources to the financial aspects of this decision. Is the administration waiting for the donors or are the deep-pockets donors waiting for the design?

 

[Fly Rodder]

No question. It's why they are really trying hard to eliminate season disruptions but it makes it much more complex.

There are two easy ways to avoid season disruption, but the school has essentially given up on any other alternatives.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Of course I have no way of knowing, but my general thought when I made the post:

30-40% loss for hoops, 20-30% for football (would be higher, but it's so far diminished to begin with, I think a lot of the diehards would come back).

If a renovated building comes with steep PSL fees or significantly higher ticket prices, the guesses go out the window. But in general, it's just so much easier to log into my account today and give them a credit card number than it is to track down lost fans and get them to commit.

I get it the sentiment, but I don't think there has been a sports arena/stadium built that didn't experience a 1-3 season honeymoon following opening where crowds are very good. Whether the fans continue to show up is on the program. Winning cures all.

 

[OttoMets]

I get it the sentiment, but I don't think there has been a sports arena/stadium built that didn't experience a 1-3 season honeymoon following opening where crowds are very good. Whether the fans continue to show up is on the program. Winning cures all.

That's true. Novelty of a newer building could bridge the gap, at least if people don't feel priced out.

 

[upperdeck]

if they build it and raise the prices all bets are off..

 

[NJCuse97]

NJ, you seem to have sources to the financial aspects of this decision. Is the administration waiting for the donors or are the deep-pockets donors waiting for the design?

No real insight here, just inferences and intuition. I think there is a need base and a "desire" platform here. I think the University is slowly and cautiously moving forward with the roofing discussions as those are need based at the core. I think they are potentially slow playing it in the hopes that a deep pocket donor or donors comes along, and they can jump into more engaged or aspirational discussions. The rub is that typically if they get too far down the road with the design, the value to the donor goes down (the donors pretty typically want some steering power or sway over the thing that will have their name on it). You can almost think of it as a football team in that there is an owner and a GM and a coach and the owner, Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder represent the donor. SU facilities planning represents the GM and the coach is played by the design team. I used those two owners intentionally. They fire GMs and hire coaches. They decide if they want a product that is made up of all-pro's on the back end of their career, or if they want to field a running and defensive team despite having a great QB and receiver corps. Imagine a GM telling Dan Snyder that he doesn't want to sign Albert Haynesworth, Deon Sanders, Jeff George... or telling Al Davis not to draft JeMarcus Russell. Think of the fun when Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry only to look like a genius with Jimmy Johnson, who he fired because of a need for the spotlight. Donors are owners, especially deep pocketed ones. Some can be good and some can be bad, but don't tell them they can't change things. Even the decision to leave things alone and in the hands of their GM and coach is their decision.

 

[Toga]

No real insight here, just inferences and intuition. I think there is a need base and a "desire" platform here. I think the University is slowly and cautiously moving forward with the roofing discussions as those are need based at the core. I think they are potentially slow playing it in the hopes that a deep pocket donor or donors comes along, and they can jump into more engaged or aspirational discussions. The rub is that typically if they get too far down the road with the design, the value to the donor goes down (the donors pretty typically want some steering power or sway over the thing that will have their name on it). You can almost think of it as a football team in that there is an owner and a GM and a coach and the owner, Jerry Jones or Daniel Snyder represent the donor. SU facilities planning represents the GM and the coach is played by the design team. I used those two owners intentionally. They fire GMs and hire coaches. They decide if they want a product that is made up of all-pro's on the back end of their career, or if they want to field a running and defensive team despite having a great QB and receiver corps. Imagine a GM telling Dan Snyder that he doesn't want to sign Albert Haynesworth, Deon Sanders, Jeff George... or telling Al Davis not to draft JeMarcus Russell. Think of the fun when Jerry Jones fired Tom Landry only to look like a genius with Jimmy Johnson, who he fired because of a need for the spotlight. Donors are owners, especially deep pocketed ones. Some can be good and some can be bad, but don't tell them they can't change things. Even the decision to leave things alone and in the hands of their GM and coach is their decision.

To take this literally - Al Davis blew it. Could have been the Just Win Baby Dome.

 

[orangeinjersey]

"PSU plans "extensive" renovations for Beaver Stadium, including chairback seating and more club options, that will lower capacity to 103,000, the university announced Monday."

"Penn State revealed renderings of the proposed stadium renovations Monday, showing a transformed facility. The suites on the stadium's East side will be removed and relocated lower in the facility. The scoreboard on the stadium's North end will be relocated as well.

Premium seats will be a commodity of the renovations. According to the master plan, Beaver Stadium will have 84 suites, 12 "BBQ suites," 127 loge boxes and 3,800 club suites.

Premium clubs will be added, including one for students and football lettermen, will be added. A new press box will be built as well, as the stadium's footprint will grow by 500,000 square feet.

Beaver Stadium currently is the nation's second-largest stadium, with 106,572 seats. If the renovation plan holds, it will drop to third behind Ohio State's Ohio Stadium.

Other renovations will include the following:

• Significant increase in chairback seating.
• Wider concourses and added premium-seating options.
• New concessions locations.
• New restrooms.
• Improved tailgating opportunities around Beaver Stadium.

Penn State did not announce the renovation costs Monday. Project renderings are expected later Monday."

 

[longtimefan]

"PSU plans "extensive" renovations for Beaver Stadium, including chairback seating and more club options, that will lower capacity to 103,000, the university announced Monday."

"Penn State revealed renderings of the proposed stadium renovations Monday, showing a transformed facility. The suites on the stadium's East side will be removed and relocated lower in the facility. The scoreboard on the stadium's North end will be relocated as well.

Premium seats will be a commodity of the renovations. According to the master plan, Beaver Stadium will have 84 suites, 12 "BBQ suites," 127 loge boxes and 3,800 club suites.

Premium clubs will be added, including one for students and football lettermen, will be added. A new press box will be built as well, as the stadium's footprint will grow by 500,000 square feet.

Beaver Stadium currently is the nation's second-largest stadium, with 106,572 seats. If the renovation plan holds, it will drop to third behind Ohio State's Ohio Stadium.

Other renovations will include the following:

• Significant increase in chairback seating.
• Wider concourses and added premium-seating options.
• New concessions locations.
• New restrooms.
• Improved tailgating opportunities around Beaver Stadium.

Penn State did not announce the renovation costs Monday. Project renderings are expected later Monday."

If I'm a Pennsylvania resident, I am adamant that not one penny of state taxes be used for this project.

 

[xc84]

If I'm a Pennsylvania resident, I am adamant that not one penny of state taxes be used for this project.

It's a shell game.

 

[CuseOnly]

"PSU plans "extensive" renovations for Beaver Stadium, including chairback seating and more club options, that will lower capacity to 103,000, the university announced Monday."

"Penn State revealed renderings of the proposed stadium renovations Monday, showing a transformed facility. The suites on the stadium's East side will be removed and relocated lower in the facility. The scoreboard on the stadium's North end will be relocated as well.

Premium seats will be a commodity of the renovations. According to the master plan, Beaver Stadium will have 84 suites, 12 "BBQ suites," 127 loge boxes and 3,800 club suites.

Premium clubs will be added, including one for students and football lettermen, will be added. A new press box will be built as well, as the stadium's footprint will grow by 500,000 square feet.

Beaver Stadium currently is the nation's second-largest stadium, with 106,572 seats. If the renovation plan holds, it will drop to third behind Ohio State's Ohio Stadium.

Other renovations will include the following:

• Significant increase in chairback seating.
• Wider concourses and added premium-seating options.
• New concessions locations.
• New restrooms.
• Improved tailgating opportunities around Beaver Stadium.

Penn State did not announce the renovation costs Monday. Project renderings are expected later Monday."

I wonder if they will announce something like this and wait 3-4 years to start and then change the project to 25% of what the renderings show.

Nah, that only happens at Syracuse University.

Has there been another school that publicly announces projects then backpedals or you just hear crickets years later?

Must be a bunch of comedians up there..." YEAH...let's whip the fanbase into a frenzy...then kick them in the nuts!!!...won't that be a hoot!!"

 

[FrancoPizza]

I know this is a shameless bump, but when the hits keep on coming.we could really, really use some positive dome renovation news now.

 

[sutomcat]

A big reason Penn State is lowering capacity at their stadium is because of declining attendance.

Attendance declined 6 years in a row before a couple of small increases in recent years.

2007 108917
2008 108254
2009 107008
2010 104234
2011 101427
2012 96730
2013 96587
2014 101623
2015 99799
2016 100257

Now back to your regularly scheduled posts about the SU campus...we have red tailed hawks on campus.

Red-tailed hawks go live on Syracuse University's new nest camera

 

[upperdeck]

cornell's hawks just died, big news to many.

 

[NJCuse97]

cornell's hawks just died, big news to many.

Wish it didn't say I liked it... I was there summer into fall up on the ag quad. They had all the bus shelters taped up so the hawks could see them because they lost one of the three to flying into one.

 

[TexanMark]

A big reason Penn State is lowering capacity at their stadium is because of declining attendance.

Attendance declined 6 years in a row before a couple of small increases in recent years.

2007 108917
2008 108254
2009 107008
2010 104234
2011 101427
2012 96730
2013 96587
2014 101623
2015 99799
2016 100257

Now back to your regularly scheduled posts about the SU campus...we have red tailed hawks on campus.

Red-tailed hawks go live on Syracuse University's new nest camera

Kinda cool..today at 3:44pm I saw the Dad come and switch out with the Mom with egg sitting duties. BTW, there were two egs.