Game 1 Depth Chart / Game Notes | Colgate

[AngryOtto]

You want 8 wins, list me the great senior leadership on this team? Shrader and who else? Look at 2018 and 2012, roster was littered with them. Not seeing it

Wax, Caleb, Barron Johnson

 

[orangenauburn]

Okechukwu?

You're a better speller than I am

 

[SWC75]

Gadsden. Alford. Thompson. Wax.

It was interesting to me that Alford, who has been compared to Gadsden but criticized for running sloppy routes and dropping balls is now a captain of the team. That suggests some serious progress.

 

[XC Cuse]

You want 8 wins, list me the great senior leadership on this team? Shrader and who else? Look at 2018 and 2012, roster was littered with them. Not seeing it

Darton seems like a leader, Wax, Barron. I'm sure there's more, but those guys stand out

 

[SUskibum]

You want 8 wins, list me the great senior leadership on this team? Shrader and who else? Look at 2018 and 2012, roster was littered with them. Not seeing it

Players on our 2 deep that are in their 4th+ year of college experience and are in at least their 2nd year with us

Garrett Shrader
Caleb Okechukwu
Marlow Wax
Anwar Sparrow
Leon Lowery
Kevon Darton
Steph Thompson
Josh Ilola
Justin Barron
Trebor Pena
Dame Alford
Isaiah Jones
Mark Petry
Isaiah Johnson
Jason Simmons
Chris Bleich


This team may have 99 problems but experienced leadership ain't one

 

[money3189]

Reed got a little help with an Ilaoa injury... Ilaoa spent a little time in a green jersey... gave Reed extra reps with 1s and is probably the healthier of the two... Colgate is a good opportunity to see what he can do.

Yup I heard IIaoa has improved and was holding it down until the injury

 

[djorange1989]

Players on our 2 deep that are in their 4th+ year of college experience and are in at least their 2nd year with us

Garrett Shrader
Caleb Okechukwu
Marlow Wax
Anwar Sparrow
Leon Lowery
Kevon Darton
Steph Thompson
Josh Ilola
Justin Barron
Trebor Pena
Dame Alford
Isaiah Jones
Mark Petry
Isaiah Johnson
Jason Simmons
Chris Bleich


This team may have 99 problems but experienced leadership ain't one

He did ask someone to list them.. thank you for shooting down a truly terrible post

 

[SUDadx2]

Players on our 2 deep that are in their 4th+ year of college experience and are in at least their 2nd year with us

Garrett Shrader
Caleb Okechukwu
Marlow Wax
Anwar Sparrow
Leon Lowery
Kevon Darton
Steph Thompson
Josh Ilola
Justin Barron
Trebor Pena
Dame Alford
Isaiah Jones
Mark Petry
Isaiah Johnson
Jason Simmons
Chris Bleich


This team may have 99 problems but experienced leadership ain't one

I think we can add the following players to the list.

Adams (6)
Greenwood (5)
Bradford (5)
Price (5)
Mang (4)
Mahar (4)

And if you include walk-ons.

Wellington (5)
Midriff (5)
Sugano (5)
Dolan (4)
Macphail (4)
Wright (4)

Although doing something longer than others doesn't necessarily make you a leader, each and every one of these players adds to and is part of the team culture.

"Culture is the byproduct of the consistent application of standards."

Veteran players are how younger or newer players learn the culture of a program. They work hard, they don't miss offseason workouts, they support each other, and they hold each other accountable.

Team culture is important to Dino. I heard a story about a heralded recruit who was on campus last winter. The player looked great on film and had all the credentials, but after seeing how the player carried himself and interacted with people, according to the story, Dino simply shook his head no because he didn't think the player was a good fit.

 

[rrlbees]

Yup I heard IIaoa has improved and was holding it down until the injury

I hope he’s improved. He’s got nowhere to go but up. He only played 4-5 games but he was our lowest graded OL last year and was particularly real bad in pass blocking.

 

[anomander]

If he's cleared to play he should play. (I know as player, if I was cleared to play I'd be pissed if I couldn't because the coach was taking it upon himself to rest me more. Nah man, no worries I'll just continue to sit said no kid ever.)

Makes sense though that Lowery is playing better.

Yeah this isn't like hoops where 1 game isn't a big deal. There are 12 games, 13 if you're lucky. I'd want to be out there for all 12. These stat padding games get you on all league lists. With that said we should have it in the bag by the 2nd half so it shouldn't matter

 

[upperdeck]

Reed got a little help with an Ilaoa injury... Ilaoa spent a little time in a green jersey... gave Reed extra reps with 1s and is probably the healthier of the two... Colgate is a good opportunity to see what he can do.

didnt Reed also have his hand banged up for some of the pre-season? maybe he could do as much as he needed too either?

 

[Phin#3]

didnt Reed also have his hand banged up for some of the pre-season? maybe he could do as much as he needed too either?

Yep... they literally tried everybody at center during camp but Reed managed to move to the top even with hand injury (left I believe). It seemed to me that they really wanted to move off Ilaoa at center and looked at every option.

 

[anomander]

Players on our 2 deep that are in their 4th+ year of college experience and are in at least their 2nd year with us

Garrett Shrader
Caleb Okechukwu
Marlow Wax
Anwar Sparrow
Leon Lowery
Kevon Darton
Steph Thompson
Josh Ilola
Justin Barron
Trebor Pena
Dame Alford
Isaiah Jones
Mark Petry
Isaiah Johnson
Jason Simmons
Chris Bleich


This team may have 99 problems but experienced leadership ain't one

I think there is a big difference in experienced seniors who are team leaders who have proven themselves over the years vs just naming a guy who is a senior but hasn't played. You're going to win when your best players are seniors. Hate to harp on it but I think that's going to be tough to keep groups of senior leaders together because we will always have a couple top guys poached in the portal.

I still think this team is good enough to win 8 games and I think key portal pick ups like More, Wolobaugh, and Farmer will be big contributors this year.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Players on our 2 deep that are in their 4th+ year of college experience and are in at least their 2nd year with us

Garrett Shrader
Caleb Okechukwu
Marlow Wax
Anwar Sparrow
Leon Lowery
Kevon Darton
Steph Thompson
Josh Ilola
Justin Barron
Trebor Pena
Dame Alford
Isaiah Jones
Mark Petry
Isaiah Johnson
Jason Simmons
Chris Bleich


This team may have 99 problems but experienced leadership ain't one

Talking about players in their last year of eligibility. No tomorrow. Also talking about performance and leadership. I am not seeing the list above in the same light as say a Dungey/ Strickland/Custis/Slayton. or a Nassib/Pugh/Lemon/Shamarko even a guy like Dan Vaughn. A kid like Ryan Guthrie was solid as well in 2018 I do like Barron and Shrader in these type of roles. Darton as well. The list above is 1/2 transfers, 1/2 guys that barely play or are hurt all the time

Between transfers/ covid etc it's impossible to even tell who is in their actual last year anymore. I mean you can list all the guys with 3-4 years into the program you want, the list above isn't in the same stratosphere is the leadership from 2012/2018, IMO. Being somewhere for 4 years doesn't make you a leader. Like saying someone who has been at their job for 15 years is good at it?

We will see.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Talking about players in their last year of eligibility. No tomorrow. Also talking about performance and leadership. I am not seeing the list above in the same light as say a Dungey/ Strickland/Custis/Slayton. or a Nassib/Pugh/Lemon/Shamarko even a guy like Dan Vaughn. A kid like Ryan Guthrie was solid as well in 2018 I do like Barron and Shrader in these type of roles. Darton as well. The list above is 1/2 transfers, 1/2 guys that barely play or are hurt all the time

Between transfers/ covid etc it's impossible to even tell who is in their actual last year anymore. I mean you can list all the guys with 3-4 years into the program you want, the list above isn't in the same stratosphere is the leadership from 2012/2018, IMO. Being somewhere for 4 years doesn't make you a leader. Like saying someone who has been at their job for 15 years is good at it?

We will see.

So if I have this right:

1) Teams that have quality seniors are only good because the seniors are more motivated to go out with a bang
2) Transfers aren't good leaders
3) Being on campus for any length of time doesn't necessarily make you a good leader
4) You have the ability to determine leadership skills by observing from a distance

While Dino prioritizes leadership and a player-lead culture, having a more experienced team isn't just about leadership. It's multiple years of working within a structure to the point that a player knows what to do instinctively. It's also multiple years of developing good weight and muscle to be able to match up physically.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Just me I know but I have a tough time getting my mind around why 6 wins wouldn't be good enough when we have managed to get there 5 times in 18 years. Call me crazy. I get that the fans feel we SHOULD be better but I will take the 6 wins and I think Wildhack will as well.

People can set the bar wherever they want and 6 wins is not great and really mediocre but I find it acceptable. If it wasn't well then I think Dino would have been shown the door after the 2021 season and as far as a bowl game goes they all stink now other than the final four teams and 3-4 other ones

I think 6 but definitely 7 wins gets Dino an extension.

I think we spend too much time on “how many wins will make me happy.” I think what matters most during the season is how they get there.

The 2004 Orange were a dumpster fire and got blown out multiple times that year (including the bowl game) and lost to Temple. I don’t think anybody then or now would be happy with a 6-6 like that.

But a team that gets to 6-6 with major injuries to major pieces throughout the year yet uses every last bit of themselves to get to it? I’d be happy with that.

Circumstances and luck unfortunately do sometimes dictate results. Especially when you have the same talent level (maybe a tick higher or lower) as your opponent those variables will come into play. It’s a game which means unexpected things often happen. That’s why we watch and why Vegas makes so much money.

If one or two of our main offensive pieces goes down early in the year and we manage six I’ll probably be happy. If normal injuries happen and we only have six wins I’ll probably look at the season as a lost opportunity. We’ve had too many of thoughts over the last decade and a half.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

So if I have this right:

1) Teams that have quality seniors are only good because the seniors are more motivated to go out with a bang
2) Transfers aren't good leaders
3) Being on campus for any length of time doesn't necessarily make you a good leader
4) You have the ability to determine leadership skills by observing from a distance

While Dino prioritizes leadership and a player-lead culture, having a more experienced team isn't just about leadership. It's multiple years of working within a structure to the point that a player knows what to do instinctively. It's also multiple years of developing good weight and muscle to be able to match up physically.

These questions will all be answered over the next 3 months on the field. 6-7 wins would be average group of seniors. 8 wins and above exceptional group. Personally, I don't think this group is as strong as 2012 or 2018. Just my 2 cents.

 

[TheHaze315]

Talking about players in their last year of eligibility. No tomorrow. Also talking about performance and leadership. I am not seeing the list above in the same light as say a Dungey/ Strickland/Custis/Slayton. or a Nassib/Pugh/Lemon/Shamarko even a guy like Dan Vaughn. A kid like Ryan Guthrie was solid as well in 2018 I do like Barron and Shrader in these type of roles. Darton as well. The list above is 1/2 transfers, 1/2 guys that barely play or are hurt all the time

Between transfers/ covid etc it's impossible to even tell who is in their actual last year anymore. I mean you can list all the guys with 3-4 years into the program you want, the list above isn't in the same stratosphere is the leadership from 2012/2018, IMO. Being somewhere for 4 years doesn't make you a leader. Like saying someone who has been at their job for 15 years is good at it?

We will see.

Why do you have to be in your final year of eligibility to be a leader? And why can’t transfers be good leaders? You said you like GS in the leader role but in the next sentence say 1/2 the list is transfers? Not trying to start an argument with you just genuinely curious where the line is for you in that regard.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

These questions will all be answered over the next 3 months on the field. 6-7 wins would be average group of seniors. 8 wins and above exceptional group. Personally, I don't think this group is as strong as 2012 or 2018. Just my 2 cents.

Why is it just "seniors" though? As someone pointed out, there's no true freshmen on the Two Deep aside from backup kicker. That's an indicator of depth, which points to development / good use of the portal. That contributes just as much to success as leadership.

 

[All4SU]

Why do you have to be in your final year of eligibility to be a leader? And why can’t transfers be good leaders? You said you like GS in the leader role but in the next sentence say 1/2 the list is transfers? Not trying to start an argument with you just genuinely curious where the line is for you in that regard.

I think it’s much more difficult for new players to be leaders. Leadership is based on trust, and it takes time to build up those relationships.

 

[upperdeck]

was there any traction on making the bowl game rule happen beyond just last yr?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

was there any traction on making the bowl game rule happen beyond just last yr?

The 5th game not counting toward burning a redshirt you mean?

 

[upperdeck]

The 5th game not counting toward burning a redshirt you mean?

yes. it was a special 1 yr deal,

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

yes. it was a special 1 yr deal,

A quick Google suggests no chatter of it since last bowl season.

 

[upperdeck]

A quick Google suggests no chatter of it since last bowl season.

yup, thats what i found as well..