Game of Thrones - Season 6

[Guinness]

I didn't even know the books existed! Are they a good read?

They are indeed.

The Saxon Stories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BlazeOrange]

The twins is on the way north from Riverrun, nearly positive.

That's right, and Jaime was in the preview clip with Walder Frey. So, he's taking a detour from his stated intention of getting back to Cersei - why?

If it was the books, where news travels slowly and groups even slower, I'd guess that Edmure agreed to take the Tully forces north to help the Starks and that the Frey forces went along to escort them thru the Twins. But they are no longer needed due to Ramsay's defeat and word of that would spread fast in TV GOT. I suppose the same thing could be happening under an actual or fake story that the Tully loyalists are being sent to the Wall. Either way, I think Walder Frey is in for some surprise payback.

 

[CaliCuse]

You and I can expect another huge cliffhanger to make us miserable until next season next year. Thats a lock I believe.

 

[ForCuseSake]

How long before they confirm Jon is the lovechild of Lyanna Stark & Rhaegar Targaryen?

Who will be the third dragon rider with Daenerys & Jon Snow?

When do the Dornish join in to stomp the Lamnisters??

I wouldn't want to be a Lannister in Westeros surrounded by enemies (Starks, Tyrells, Martells) and 3 dragons coming from across the narrow sea.

A lot of debts will be paid.

 

[CaliCuse]

How long before they confirm Jon is the lovechild of Lyanna Stark & Rhaegar Targaryen?

Who will be the third dragon rider with Daenerys & Jon Snow?

When do the Dornish join in to stomp the Lamnisters??

I wouldn't want to be a Lannister in Westeros surrounded by enemies (Starks, Tyrells, Martells) and 3 dragons coming from across the narrow sea.

A lot of debts will be paid.

IT WILL BE FUN! This series may well be the best in TV history and next to impossible to equal.

 

[MCC]

IT WILL BE FUN! This series may well be the best in TV history and next to impossible to equal.

I realize ranking great shows is subjective, but I don't see how GoT makes the top 5, especially in light of the majority of Season 5 and many of the plodding, awkward, plot-holes in Season 6.

Not to hijack, but I don't see any way GoT stands with:

1. Breaking Bad
2. Sopranos
3. The Shield
4. Deadwood
5. The Wire

 

[AZOrange]

I realize ranking great shows is subjective, but I don't see how GoT makes the top 5, especially in light of the majority of Season 5 and many of the plodding, awkward, plot-holes in Season 6. Not to hijack, but I don't see any way GoT stands with: 1. Breaking Bad 2. Sopranos 3. The Shield 4. Deadwood 5. The Wire

look I love the wire, but seasons 3-4 were a complete bore and 5 was only slightly better. I quibble with deadwood just because it's so short. I have never seen the shield but imo you could have a show like nypd blue in there. 1 and 2 are unquestionably superior.

I do agree with your bigger point about why GOT is so plodding...and I'm not sure that prior to 6, there was a tv show change from the books that was superior. Any writer/director that couldn't see how bad the sand snakes were should never work in Hollywood again

 

[orangenirvana]

I realize ranking great shows is subjective, but I don't see how GoT makes the top 5, especially in light of the majority of Season 5 and many of the plodding, awkward, plot-holes in Season 6.

Not to hijack, but I don't see any way GoT stands with:

1. Breaking Bad
2. Sopranos
3. The Shield
4. Deadwood
5. The Wire

You're crazy. It's not a perfect show - but there's never been a perfect show.

That said - I'll wait until I see how these final 14 episodes go before I rank it.

Btw, what are these "plodding, awkward, plot-holes in Season 6" you speak of?

 

[MCC]

You're crazy. It's not a perfect show - but there's never been a perfect show.

That said - I'll wait until I see how these final 14 episodes go before I rank it.

Btw, what are these "plodding, awkward, plot-holes in Season 6" you speak of?

1. I'm not crazy; the shows I've suggested as superior to GoT are defensible and reasonable. Have you watched all, or any, of them? Can you compare the writing of BB, Sopranos and GoT and posit some differences? Seasons 5 and 6 of GoT have been riddled with Cersei's trite and redundant diatribes. If I hear one more of her arched-brow invectives along the lines of 'We'll show them what we do to our enemies / we stand alone / we are Lannisters' I may remove my ossicles with a tweezer. What objective statements can you make to indicate I'm crazy couching GoT in this context?

2. I concur there's never been a perfect show, and the flaws in S05 (the entire Sand Snakes / Dorne telenovela) and S06 (abrupt, ridiculous closure to the moronic Dorne character arcs) reveal GoT to be far less perfect than the shows on my list: none of them made us suffer through anything remotely so cringe-worthy.

3. Plodding, awkward plot-holes:

a. The slow and ultimately pointless build up and resulting intrigue around a possible dual-personality / character switch involving Arya and the Waif, only to be subsumed by a half-assed and entirely unoriginal chase on foot replete with the requisite spill of a basket of fruit (Oh, no, the citrus! The citrussssss!) that could've been pulled right from a Raiders of the Lost Ark scene where Indy was tracking down Marian (in fact, I think I saw the same monkey used in Raiders, although that would make him a primate senior citizen). Arya seems to survive near-mortal wounds without scarring (either physical or mental) and appears to emerge from her Braavos / Faceless Men arc essentially unchanged. What was the point?

b. The highly suspect suggestion that Littlefinger had no clue that Ramsay was a psychotic whacko. He flayed Theon Greyjoy, killed his half brother (Ramsay's true heir) years back, and is known to feed his ex-girlfriends to his dogs. All this is common knowledge, which means Littlefinger (and Varys, and anyone else in Westeros with a modicum of political acumen) knows full well who and what Ramsay is. Just dumb, and totally flies in the face of all we know about one of the master schemer / intel-gatherers in the story.

c. The arcs of Bloodraven and Blackfish. Awkward, almost meaningless deaths for both. I can see how we've been asked to reflect on Bran's errors, which led to BR's (and Hodor's) demise - and that will undoubtedly weigh on Bran's conscience. But BR had been built up as an almost magical, supernatural figure: to what end? To be dis-Voldemort-ed by the Night's King (the Harry Potter folks should be ticked GoT totally stole their CGI ephemeral effect), without some impressive display of power, resonant sacrifice or anything else impactful? BF is finally given substantive screen time, verbally jousts with Jaime, and then... dies off screen. Why invest any time in him? Of course, he may have escaped and could show up in S07; I'm not sure it would matter given the ham-handed handling of other characters more central to the story.

I suspect this is enough material for now, and maintain my positions absent some compelling rejoinders from you or others.

 

[Dave85]

Some interesting theories:

Game of Thrones: Brilliant and bonkers theories about the season six finale

 

[orangenirvana]

1. I'm not crazy; the shows I've suggested as superior to GoT are defensible and reasonable. Have you watched all, or any, of them? Can you compare the writing of BB, Sopranos and GoT and posit some differences? Seasons 5 and 6 of GoT have been riddled with Cersei's trite and redundant diatribes. If I hear one more of her arched-brow invectives along the lines of 'We'll show them what we do to our enemies / we stand alone / we are Lannisters' I may remove my ossicles with a tweezer. What objective statements can you make to indicate I'm crazy couching GoT in this context?

Truth be told, I've only watched the top 2 you listed - and they're my two favorite series ever (not counting GOT). But even they had flaws. Sopranos probably lasted one season too long, had some boring episodes in the final couple seasons and the way Chase decided to end it was poor. Even Breaking Bad - the ending was over-the-top and far-fetched. I like Norm McDonald's theory that the entire second half of the final episode was a dream and that Walt actually died in the car.

So your problem with the last two seasons is Cersei's story arc? That seems really odd and petty.

2. I concur there's never been a perfect show, and the flaws in S05 (the entire Sand Snakes / Dorne telenovela) and S06 (abrupt, ridiculous closure to the moronic Dorne character arcs) reveal GoT to be far less perfect than the shows on my list: none of them made us suffer through anything remotely so cringe-worthy.

The Dorne story in S5 stunk. I'm with you there. But if your biggest issue with S6 is the way they dealt with that plot (like a band-aid...RIGHT OFF!!) then I'd say you would agree that S6 has been great.

The insane high's from the series have more than made up for the few low's.

3. Plodding, awkward plot-holes:

a. The slow and ultimately pointless build up and resulting intrigue around a possible dual-personality / character switch involving Arya and the Waif, only to be subsumed by a half-assed and entirely unoriginal chase on foot replete with the requisite spill of a basket of fruit (Oh, no, the citrus! The citrussssss!) that could've been pulled right from a Raiders of the Lost Ark scene where Indy was tracking down Marian (in fact, I think I saw the same monkey used in Raiders, although that would make him a primate senior citizen). Arya seems to survive near-mortal wounds without scarring (either physical or mental) and appears to emerge from her Braavos / Faceless Men arc essentially unchanged. What was the point?

Pointless? Unchanged? This is a coming-of-age story for Arya. She went from a little girl thinking she wanted to leave behind her previous life where she witnessed her father beheaded then nearly witnessed her mother and eldest brother brutally murdered to a young woman coming to the realization that she wanted to remain a Stark and return home regardless of what she may find when (if) she gets there. Complaining about a fruit basket? Petty.

I wasn't fan of the direction of those final scenes but the story itself was enjoyable and rewarding.

This is a bad example of a "plot-hole" btw.

b. The highly suspect suggestion that Littlefinger had no clue that Ramsay was a psychotic whacko. He flayed Theon Greyjoy, killed his half brother (Ramsay's true heir) years back, and is known to feed his ex-girlfriends to his dogs. All this is common knowledge, which means Littlefinger (and Varys, and anyone else in Westeros with a modicum of political acumen) knows full well who and what Ramsay is. Just dumb, and totally flies in the face of all we know about one of the master schemer / intel-gatherers in the story.

Your post is the first I've heard Ramsay killed his half brother. How was all of this common knowledge? Seems like a weird thing to get worked up about.

c. The arcs of Bloodraven and Blackfish. Awkward, almost meaningless deaths for both. I can see how we've been asked to reflect on Bran's errors, which led to BR's (and Hodor's) demise - and that will undoubtedly weigh on Bran's conscience. But BR had been built up as an almost magical, supernatural figure: to what end? To be dis-Voldemort-ed by the Night's King (the Harry Potter folks should be ticked GoT totally stole their CGI ephemeral effect), without some impressive display of power, resonant sacrifice or anything else impactful? BF is finally given substantive screen time, verbally jousts with Jaime, and then... dies off screen. Why invest any time in him? Of course, he may have escaped and could show up in S07; I'm not sure it would matter given the ham-handed handling of other characters more central to the story.

I suspect this is enough material for now, and maintain my positions absent some compelling rejoinders from you or others.

Should the Raven have lived through the end of the series? Was Bran supposed to stay in that cave for two more seasons? Or would you have the Raven carry that tree around with him on their trek to the wall? I think time-travel is pretty impressive and showing Bran his purpose impactful but maybe that's just me.

And were we really supposed to care a lot about Blackfish? He's a very minor character who had a few decent moments. His purpose this season was to get Jamie out of King's Landing and into the Riverlands.

 

[MCC]

Truth be told, I've only watched the top 2 you listed - and they're my two favorite series ever (not counting GOT). But even they had flaws. Sopranos probably lasted one season too long, had some boring episodes in the final couple seasons and the way Chase decided to end it was poor. Even Breaking Bad - the ending was over-the-top and far-fetched. I like Norm McDonald's theory that the entire second half of the final episode was a dream and that Walt actually died in the car.

So your problem with the last two seasons is Cersei's story arc? That seems really odd and petty.


The Dorne story in S5 stunk. I'm with you there. But if your biggest issue with S6 is the way they dealt with that plot (like a band-aid...RIGHT OFF!!) then I'd say you would agree that S6 has been great.

The insane high's from the series have more than made up for the few low's.


Pointless? Unchanged? This is a coming-of-age story for Arya. She went from a little girl thinking she wanted to leave behind her previous life where she witnessed her father beheaded then nearly witnessed her mother and eldest brother brutally murdered to a young woman coming to the realization that she wanted to remain a Stark and return home regardless of what she may find when (if) she gets there. Complaining about a fruit basket? Petty.

I wasn't fan of the direction of those final scenes but the story itself was enjoyable and rewarding.

This is a bad example of a "plot-hole" btw.

Your post is the first I've heard Ramsay killed his half brother. How was all of this common knowledge? Seems like a weird thing to get worked up about.

Should the Raven have lived through the end of the series? Was Bran supposed to stay in that cave for two more seasons? Or would you have the Raven carry that tree around with him on their trek to the wall? I think time-travel is pretty impressive and showing Bran his purpose impactful but maybe that's just me.

And were we really supposed to care a lot about Blackfish? He's a very minor character who had a few decent moments. His purpose this season was to get Jamie out of King's Landing and into the Riverlands.

1. I have no problem with Cersei's arc. Perfectly fine with the arc. Stripped of power, shamed, descending into madness. Anger management issues. Premature deployment of undead Mountain. Checks all the boxes. Happy with the arc. My post called out 'trite and redundant diatribes'. I'm saying the character is written poorly; the script doesn't measure up to past seasons, or to the shows in my top 5. Totally different than her arc.

2. I never said my biggest issue with S06 is the way the dealt with Dorne. Dorne is one example. The inane banter between Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missandei is even worse. Teaching them jokes and drinking games? Ugh - fast forward. Jon's resurrection could've been more impactful as well: he came back, but how has he changed as a person? Yes he deserts the NW, but he hasn't transformed. Martin himself said he found Gandalf's resurrection in LoTR unsatisfying because he came back better than before, and without clear psychological baggage. In sum, I wouldn't say Dorne is my biggest complaint, rather one of many.

3. You misinterpreted my comments on Arya. What seemed like an inevitable twist never materialized: Arya was strolling about Braavos, unarmed, despite all her recent training, and was easily suprised and overwhelmed by the Waif. I was expecting the Waif to pass her hand over her face to reveal Arya, and the dead / dying Arya would be revealed to be the Waif. That would have explained a lot: the Waif would have been baiting Arya, but would turn out to be a second side of Arya's personality that Arya would have to murder before she could go full-on Stark again. That would have been satisfying. Here again, I'm fine with the arc but nothing truly deep or transformational happened here. And I have every right to complain about the silly foot chase that we've seen in a hundred different iterations of Bond / Indiana Jones / Bourne, etc.

4. Again you misinterpret my comments: I'm worked up about the implication that Littlefinger wouldn't have known Ramsay was a psychopath. Anyone with any kind of network would've known what he did to Theon, his penchant for feeding girls to his hounds, and on and on. To suggest that he'd be so naive is ridiculous, but that's where the show went.

5. We can agree to disagree on BR and BF.

 

[orangenirvana]

1. I have no problem with Cersei's arc. Perfectly fine with the arc. Stripped of power, shamed, descending into madness. Anger management issues. Premature deployment of undead Mountain. Checks all the boxes. Happy with the arc. My post called out 'trite and redundant diatribes'. I'm saying the character is written poorly; the script doesn't measure up to past seasons, or to the shows in my top 5. Totally different than her arc.

Ok, but I still disagree. The script has been written to portray a woman who is having an identity crisis and bottling a rage that is likely to soon erupt.

What we've seen from Cersei this season is a gamut of emotion. A glimmer of hope when Jamie arrives with Myrcella. Devastation and depression when informed of Myrcella's death until Jamie is able to snap her out of it and give her a focus and determination to destroy her enemies. After receiving a verbal beat-down by Lady Olenna that makes her question any self-worth she ever had, she once again falls into despair which directly leads to her chilling "I choose violence" line later on. She's then is informed that the Trial by Combat is now banned, which leads to more hopelessness. And the last we've seen of her is Qyburn letting her know that there is in fact a massive storage of wildfire available in King's Landing.

Not sure what you were hoping for.

2. I never said my biggest issue with S06 is the way the dealt with Dorne. Dorne is one example. The inane banter between Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missandei is even worse. Teaching them jokes and drinking games? Ugh - fast forward. Jon's resurrection could've been more impactful as well: he came back, but how has he changed as a person? Yes he deserts the NW, but he hasn't transformed. Martin himself said he found Gandalf's resurrection in LoTR unsatisfying because he came back better than before, and without clear psychological baggage. In sum, I wouldn't say Dorne is my biggest complaint, rather one of many.

In such a depressing world you need some playful banter and comic relief. In the end Tyrion was able to get both Missandei and Grey Worm to open up and smile. I thought it was nice. He also described his plans for after the wars are over. Scenes like these allow the viewers to see that there is some good in this world and it is worth saving. Otherwise what's the point?

I agree that Jon's resurrection was a little bland and obviously predictable. But I wouldn't say he hasn't transformed at least a little. The key line was after Melisandre asked Jon what he saw while he was dead, Jon replied "Nothing. There was nothing at all." I think that resonated with him and his leaving the watch is a huge indication of his realization that this is all there is and there is no point. Don't underestimate what his breaking of a sacred oath by leaving the Watch says about his psyche.

3. You misinterpreted my comments on Arya. What seemed like an inevitable twist never materialized: Arya was strolling about Braavos, unarmed, despite all her recent training, and was easily suprised and overwhelmed by the Waif. I was expecting the Waif to pass her hand over her face to reveal Arya, and the dead / dying Arya would be revealed to be the Waif. That would have explained a lot: the Waif would have been baiting Arya, but would turn out to be a second side of Arya's personality that Arya would have to murder before she could go full-on Stark again. That would have been satisfying. Here again, I'm fine with the arc but nothing truly deep or transformational happened here. And I have every right to complain about the silly foot chase that we've seen in a hundred different iterations of Bond / Indiana Jones / Bourne, etc.

Yeah, I don't disagree here. A twist like that would have been interesting.

4. Again you misinterpret my comments: I'm worked up about the implication that Littlefinger wouldn't have known Ramsay was a psychopath. Anyone with any kind of network would've known what he did to Theon, his penchant for feeding girls to his hounds, and on and on. To suggest that he'd be so naive is ridiculous, but that's where the show went.

I didn't misinterpret your comments at all. That's fine if you don't buy that Littlefinger wouldn't know about Ramsay. To me it just shows that he's not invincible. He's a conniving, power-hungry weasel who has great connections in King's Landing and the Vale. The North? Not so much.

 

[orangenirvana]

Greatest episode of the series?

They set themselves up quite nicely for the final prolonged season.

 

[Guinness]

Greatest episode of the series?

They set themselves up quite nicely for the final prolonged season.

Absolutely.

I just hope we get one final, long season instead of the two shortened seasons that was being talked about.

 

[Ragman2000]

What a Friggin season finale. Speechless. Might be my favorite episode to date.

I must say, as deplorable as Cersei is, it was so satisfying watch her mock and torture the Lord Mother. "Shame! Shame! Shame!" lol.

 

[Dave85]

I just finish watching off my DVR. OMG! That was so awesome!

 

[Dave85]

Greatest episode of the series?

They set themselves up quite nicely for the final prolonged season.

It's right up there with the red wedding. The red wedding has its own special place. But this episode is clearly one of my all-time favorites of any season by far. And the episode when the dragons were born was a good episode too.

I don't care about the fruit-basket chase scene stuff. And some of the story lines may have been rushed bla, bla, bla. Whatever, I don't care. I just can't nick pick over something I enjoyed so immensely. Hold the door. Hold the door.

GOT is in my mind the greatest fantasy adventure stories ever. LOTR and HP have their place. But man, GOT is just so amazingly awesome!

 

[CaliCuse]

Greatest episode of the series?

They set themselves up quite nicely for the final prolonged season.

I wonder if Arya will find a young man to hook up with next year. An interesting union would be Pod who has wielded a sword capably in an early episode this past season. He had better not screwup or she will kill him with a knife across his throat.

 

[Trueblue25]

Littlefinger's giving me gray hairs and I'm not even half way through my 20's.

 

[CaliCuse]

Littlefinger's giving me gray hairs and I'm not even half way through my 20's.

 

[CaliCuse]

Wait until all the hairs on you begin to gray.

 

[KaiserUEO]

phenomenal final 2 episodes with a lot of questions storylines answered.

would love for them to do a lot 80-90 minute episodes next year.

it certainly is 1 of the greatest TV shows of all time.

maybe the greatest, we will see.

you know im not much of a feather ruffler, but the breaking bad people need to take a chill pill.

it was a great show as well, but everytime someone wants to put it down a peg or 2...they get all uppity and are ready to defend it like its 1 of their kids. it plays to me like its the 1st show the millennials found and they will fight for it to the death...kicking and screaming like spoiled little brats.

I don't think it was good as Sons of Anarchy and its certainly not better than the Walking Dead.

 

[Alsacs]

phenomenal final 2 episodes with a lot of questions storylines answered.

would love for them to do a lot 80-90 minute episodes next year.

it certainly is 1 of the greatest TV shows of all time.

maybe the greatest, we will see.

you know im not much of a feather ruffler, but the breaking bad people need to take a chill pill.

it was a great show as well, but everytime someone wants to put it down a peg or 2...they get all uppity and are ready to defend it like its 1 of their kids. it plays to me like its the 1st show the millennials found and they will fight for it to the death...kicking and screaming like spoiled little brats.

I don't think it was good as Sons of Anarchy and its certainly not better than the Walking Dead.

 

[orangenirvana]

I wonder if Arya will find a young man to hook up with next year. An interesting union would be Pod who has wielded a sword capably in an early episode this past season. He had better not screwup or she will kill him with a knife across his throat.

I think Arya plays for the other team. If you know what I mean.