Garrett Shrader

[TheCusian]

Also has to be some context as well. Jim Brown? Randy Moss wasn't a great practice player either but we are in two different hemispheres when discussing these two versus the topic at hand here. Come on.

I meant, Shrader played in live snaps vs Ohio. The post was making it seem like he didn't see the field at all or have a chance to do what he does. He did.

 

[007]

DB told us that he was going to lean on his experienced players in the opener on the road against a quality MAC team. Smart move.

I think we might see some less experienced players and true freshmen get a little more run in the Rutgers game. I don't think that necessarily means GS will play more, even though I would like to see him get at least a red zone package.

We will know a lot more about TD's development Saturday. He is going to get blitzed all night. He needs to see that coming and make the right hot reads. I also want to see him step up in the pocket in the face of that pressure and make plays down field. If TD responds reasonably well, I don't see DB moving away from his experienced QB. If not, GS will have his shot. It's as simple as that, IMO.

 

[SUbear]

It's a bad point on the surface because no coach in any sport gives guys tryout auditions in live game action. Practice matters, period. For the 'gamers' out there, they need they need to somehow channel that in practice.

And you know they needed a veteran transfer in here so the backup wasn't a deer in headlight freshman again.

So when TD either plays badly or is injured and he will one the other or both, you want his replacement to come in with no live game experience in our system or any indication prior how he might perform. Sorry but I think that is an ill conceived plan.
You simply can not get a clear picture of potential only from practice, practices are different from games, especially at the protected QB position.
I am not saying put him in to start the game, but there were times at Ohio he could have easily been played and wasnt.

 

[AngryOtto]

Had to stop reading after I saw this. You are implying that this staff doesnt know what to look for when evaluating players playing in the system that they designed. Coaches that have been doing physical and psychological evaluations on daily basis but you think Shrader deserves to play based on what? Internet chatter and fan preference? Previous highlights? You lost me there. Shrader deserves it when he earns it. That's the real world. No hand outs given.

I think his point was that when you are playing touch football in practice with a qb it may be difficult to truely evaluate their ability when placed in a live game situation.
One of the reasons TD won the job at this point i believe is he understands the read option and system better than Sharder.
None of us really know how Sharder will do in a game setting. Number of unknown.
Most people feel they know what they have in TD. He did play decent against Ohio. If he continues to do well this weekend and beyond fantastic. It means su is winning. If not then we get to see what Sharder or another one of the qbs can do.
In the end we want wins.

 

[FloridaFan]

I think his point was that when you are playing touch football in practice with a qb it may be difficult to truely evaluate their ability when placed in a live game situation.
One of the reasons TD won the job at this point i believe is he understands the read option and system better than Sharder.
None of us really know how Sharder will do in a game setting. Number of unknown.
Most people feel they know what they have in TD. He did play decent against Ohio. If he continues to do well this weekend and beyond fantastic. It means su is winning. If not then we get to see what Sharder or another one of the qbs can do.
In the end we want wins.

We already have 3 QB’s with live reps besides Devito, 2 of which are in our own O system. I don’t think 2 series more against Ohio do anythint for Shredder

 

[money3189]

I think his point was that when you are playing touch football in practice with a qb it may be difficult to truely evaluate their ability when placed in a live game situation.
One of the reasons TD won the job at this point i believe is he understands the read option and system better than Sharder.
None of us really know how Sharder will do in a game setting. Number of unknown.
Most people feel they know what they have in TD. He did play decent against Ohio. If he continues to do well this weekend and beyond fantastic. It means su is winning. If not then we get to see what Sharder or another one of the qbs can do.
In the end we want wins.

That’s his point of view. His viewpoint is from his couch watching the game on TV and reading write ups from 10 minutes of practice warm ups. It’s an outside view of the program. From coaching perspective. I know just from the decisions the coaches has made thus far. If Shrader was better at this point of time he will be playing. Point blank. I’ve said this several times. I’m going to keep saying it.

 

[TheCusian]

So when TD either plays badly or is injured and he will one the other or both, you want his replacement to come in with no live game experience in our system or any indication prior how he might perform. Sorry but I think that is an ill conceived plan.
You simply can not get a clear picture of potential only from practice, practices are different from games, especially at the protected QB position.
I am not saying put him in to start the game, but there were times at Ohio he could have easily been played and wasnt.

He played in the game at Ohio. “No live game experience” is impossible.

 

[bnoro]

I do not think any one has said Dino is not playing the QB he has confidence in, however he did bring in a transfer. TD has had a lot of consistency problems and injury, especially with his decisions under pressure. People, me included, would like to have Shrader get some game experience, and there were some opportunities for that at Ohio.
It is obvious that Shrader lacks TDs arm strength, however is he capable of extending plays better than TD. We will not know, if he does not see live action, and an opportunity to learn that was missed.

Tommy has had consistency problems and injuries because for the last two years, he has played behind far and away the worst OL in the power 5, if not college football. He had to get the ball out in two seconds or he was getting sacked, and when he did have time, he had happy feet. I've been frustrated with his decision making at times but he came out poised and calm in the first game, and made great reads throughout the game.

What we can't do is extrapolate the last few seasons of results to this season, because we aren't playing with the same team. We have a healthy line and a new OL coach that proved (so far) that they are competent. If Tommy was the best QB in camp, you play your starter.

You don't take Devito out of a close game to "see what you have" in Shrader, especially when the game was completely under control and we had all the momentum. The opportunity to do that will be the Albany game, or if Tommy got injured or really struggles against Rutgers.

We brought in a transfer to push Tommy, and to have a competent second starter in case of injury. We didn't bring in Shrader to be the starter as soon as he stepped on campus, and he didn't win the position in camp.

 

[money3189]

Well, there is very much a real bias in short-term risk mitigation and playing not to lose vs longer term success/playing to win and being agressive.

I don't think that Dino would ever make a choice that he doesn't feel like gives him the best chance of winning... but I think what you can caveat that with is that it may give him the best chance of winning in the extreme near term (that game).

I believe there is an argument that coaches (and you see this with GMs in pro sports) that very much win the three feet in front of their face but sink a strategy that will win you longer term.

I think Dino played not to lose once we got up in Ohio. I think there would have been real value in getting GS more snaps. But, I think Dino's not worrying about game 7 on the year, he's worrying about game 1 and game 1 only because he knows he has no more leeway.

Just my 0.02.

Agree. We can possibly lose 2 out of the next 3. You have to do what’s best to win games now while you develop players that can make you better down the road. He is not in position to take a chance right now. He has to be careful of how he inserts Shrader in games. Can’t throw someone in there that is unpredictable in his scheme. I was hoping Shrader would blow it away by now and take over but he hasn’t. It’s not just about skill and what he did as a freshman 2 years ago. You have to look at all variables.

 

[TheCusian]

Facts from Saturdays game so we can move on:

1. Shrader played some at the end. Live snaps.
2. We threw the ball in the middle of the field.

 

[money3189]

Tommy has had consistency problems and injuries because for the last two years, he has played behind far and away the worst OL in the power 5, if not college football. He had to get the ball out in two seconds or he was getting sacked, and when he did have time, he had happy feet. I've been frustrated with his decision making at times but he came out poised and calm in the first game, and made great reads throughout the game.

What we can't do is extrapolate the last few seasons of results to this season, because we aren't playing with the same team. We have a healthy line and a new OL coach that proved (so far) that they are competent. If Tommy was the best QB in camp, you play your starter.

You don't take Devito out of a close game to "see what you have" in Shrader, especially when the game was completely under control and we had all the momentum. The opportunity to do that will be the Albany game, or if Tommy got injured or really struggles against Rutgers.

We brought in a transfer to push Tommy, and to have a competent second starter in case of injury. We didn't bring in Shrader to be the starter as soon as he stepped on campus, and he didn't win the position in camp.

Great post. Appreciate the logical thinking.

 

[721Comstock]

So when TD either plays badly or is injured and he will one the other or both, you want his replacement to come in with no live game experience in our system or any indication prior how he might perform. Sorry but I think that is an ill conceived plan.
You simply can not get a clear picture of potential only from practice, practices are different from games, especially at the protected QB position.
I am not saying put him in to start the game, but there were times at Ohio he could have easily been played and wasnt.

How much in-game experience had Dungey gotten before T-Hunt went down for the season?

I’ll hang up and listen.

 

[dollarbill44]

How long have you been watching Syracuse football? Ever might be a strong statement.

Clearly, less than one year.

 

[money3189]

Relax dude, I was just kidding around so I could use that "Belief without Evidence" quote. Some of you are so wrapped up in a team you have no control over. "Profession lives on the line" is a little over the top for college football coaches. That is reserved for our men/women in uniform (ie: Military, PD, FD). "Livelihood" would be a better word

Now I know you are smarter than that. Professional lives meaning “ their jobs are on the line”. P5 jobs pay a lot more than your average DI job. They don’t want to lose that. Some coaches don’t make it back to coaching at that level after getting fired. And FYI I am relaxed.

 

[PhatOrange]

Well, there is very much a real bias in short-term risk mitigation and playing not to lose vs longer term success/playing to win and being agressive.

I don't think that Dino would ever make a choice that he doesn't feel like gives him the best chance of winning... but I think what you can caveat that with is that it may give him the best chance of winning in the extreme near term (that game).

I believe there is an argument that coaches (and you see this with GMs in pro sports) that very much win the three feet in front of their face but sink a strategy that will win you longer term.

I think Dino played not to lose once we got up in Ohio. I think there would have been real value in getting GS more snaps. But, I think Dino's not worrying about game 7 on the year, he's worrying about game 1 and game 1 only because he knows he has no more leeway.

Just my 0.02.

A lot of coaches play to win today and not tomorrow. Boeheim is famous for it and his results speak for themselves. I subscribe to the theory as well but I can sure see both sides of the argument. Football you are truly always one snap away from playing the backup. Any other sport not so much.

 

[MikeSU02]

A lot of coaches play to win today and not tomorrow. Boeheim is famous for it and his results speak for themselves. I subscribe to the theory as well but I can sure see both sides of the argument. Football you are truly always one snap away from play the backup. Any other sport not so much.

I literally said, during the Ohio game, that Dino was doing a JB-esque stall ball, haha.

 

[tep624]

I hope Shrader gets at minimum a half vs Albany, but it would be nice to see him start the game with the 1st team getting full 1st team reps and not working with the 2nd team because we're in a blowout situation. We need to have a competent backup but one that actually has live game reps with the 1st team as well. That just makes our depth chart that much stronger. In years past the options were 1A/1B/1C Dungey and the only time anyone besides him got significant reps with the 1st team was when was injured and not available. That's a dangerous contingency policy in a season where we could be talking 1 game is the difference between bowling or not.

 

[Deleted member 7047]

That’s his point of view. His viewpoint is from his couch watching the game on TV and reading write ups from 10 minutes of practice warm ups. It’s an outside view of the program. From coaching perspective. I know just from the decisions the coaches has made thus far. If Shrader was better at this point of time he will be playing. Point blank. I’ve said this several times. I’m going to keep saying it.

Of course that was my point of view, what other point of view could I have? My point was not that GS should have started or played more meaningful minutes in the Ohio game. My point was that this might be like the Hunt situation in that, with a dual-threat QB in a no-contact-with-the-QB practice situation, the coaches (certainly the fans don't) might not know exactly the full extent of the skills GS might be bringing to the table. I also said that I trust Babers as to when the appropriate time to put GS on the field would be. I didn't think that would be too controversial a statement.

 

[money3189]

Of course that was my point of view, what other point of view could I have? My point was not that GS should have started or played more meaningful minutes in the Ohio game. My point was that this might be like the Hunt situation in that, with a dual-threat QB in a no-contact-with-the-QB practice situation, the coaches (certainly the fans don't) might not know exactly the full extent of the skills GS might be bringing to the table. I also said that I trust Babers as to when the appropriate time to put GS on the field would be. I didn't think that would be too controversial a statement.

Gotcha. Im really not trying to pick on you. “It might be like Hunt “ is not what college coaches can rely on. We all seen Schrader’s skill set in his film but it doesn’t mean he’s done enough to make the coaches want to give him the keys. It’s easy to pick on Devito because we’ve seen all his flaws. Shrader’s flaws shows in practice which we aren’t able to watch. I know some players are gamers but what you are in practice is what you are on Saturday afternoons.

 

[money3189]

We already have 3 QB’s with live reps besides Devito, 2 of which are in our own O system. I don’t think 2 series more against Ohio do anythint for Shredder

Facts. Nothing was going to be solved vs Ohio. I hope Shrader gets packages against rutgers and gets a half against Albany. I think people are disappointed because they thought Shrader will play some vs Ohio. It was coach talk to get Ohio preparing for two guys.

 

[kcsu]

"Not given a chance" . People outside the team love to assume someone else is better. He was given the chance throughout camp. He needs to be better than Devito. Take it and run away with it so it leaves no doubt in the coaches mind. Some act like Devito is a complete scrub and can't improve. Shrader didnt walk into a program that has a QB with no experience. On top of that, playing a few more snaps against Ohio wasnt going to change the QB depth chart. They get better competition against their own defense in practice. Its funny, no one questions when other transfers come in and win the competition. No one questioned Bleich, Simmons but there's an assumption that the staff is not giving Shrader a look. There's an assumption that Shrader is killing it. Shrader could be having those moments but he also could be having those What moments that keeps the staff worried. Its been one game. Shrader will continue to improve. Lets see how it plays out.

Shrader is going to play.

 

[money3189]

Shrader is going to play.

Yes he is. We just don’t know when.

 

[baggerbob]

"Not given a chance" . People outside the team love to assume someone else is better. He was given the chance throughout camp. He needs to be better than Devito. Take it and run away with it so it leaves no doubt in the coaches mind. Some act like Devito is a complete scrub and can't improve. Shrader didnt walk into a program that has a QB with no experience. On top of that, playing a few more snaps against Ohio wasnt going to change the QB depth chart. They get better competition against their own defense in practice. Its funny, no one questions when other transfers come in and win the competition. No one questioned Bleich, Simmons but there's an assumption that the staff is not giving Shrader a look. There's an assumption that Shrader is killing it. Shrader could be having those moments but he also could be having those What moments that keeps the staff worried. Its been one game. Shrader will continue to improve. Lets see how it plays out.

At this point in time you play Tommy until he proves you can't play him.Dino has to win this year, he can't rotate QB's, you don't play Shrader unless it's a blowout.
Dino has a habit of saying things he doesn't mean. I would expect Shrader to get some run against Albany, but that's the only game in the 1st 4 he will play much.

 

[kcsu]

I believe GS turned heads this fall. He is a completely different type of QB and personality from Tommy. TD did a nice job managing the O last Saturday. He deserves to start and i hope that he lights it up against Rutgers and every team we face. The fact that GS is by all accounts ready and very capable of leading this team is great news. We have 2 solid QBs and i believe both are going to play and be called upon this year. I expect GS to play against Rutgers regardless of how TD is playing.

 

[money3189]

I believe GS turned heads this fall. He is a completely different type of QB and personality from Tommy. TD did a nice job managing the O last Saturday. He deserves to start and i hope that he lights it up against Rutgers and every team we face. The fact that GS is by all accounts ready and very capable of leading this team is great news. We have 2 solid QBs and i believe both are going to play and be called upon this year. I expect GS to play against Rutgers regardless of how TD is playing.

Facts