Garrett Williams and Field Turf | Page 12 | Syracusefan.com

Garrett Williams and Field Turf

we don't really follow how many kids on the other teams get hurt and are lost for the season, do we?
Agree. There are ACC teams who are even down to 3rd string qb’s and that’s just one position. We hear about qb’s more than the other positions. Wasn’t Pitt’s running back out for an extended period of time? They all don’t play on turf. Sadly there are serious injuries almost every game you watch.

Found this link for injuries in the ACC, we aren’t alone.
 
I watch a lot of college football. I never seen this many season ending injuries with other teams. Is that 4 season ending knee injuries to starters? Is that the count ?

Stefon Thompson
Rhino
Terry Lockett
Isaiah Jones
Garrett Williams
 
Maybe because we play 7 games on it instead of 1? Cumulative effect along with more opportunity for “fluke” injuries.
Could be.

But wouldn't explain losing two guys in the first game.

:shrugs:
 
BC, Louisville and Wake have field turf besides us In the ACC. Almost the entire Big 10 plays on turf with only 4 exceptions, Mich St, Northwestern, Penn St and Purdue. Why are we ignoring the comparisons and actual numbers vs conjecture?
 
BC, Louisville and Wake have field turf besides us In the ACC. Almost the entire Big 10 plays on turf with only 4 exceptions, Mich St, Northwestern, Penn St and Purdue. Why are we ignoring the comparisons and actual numbers vs conjecture?
Prolly that good ol' CNY cynicism.
 
Is there some disagreement on whether you are more likely to get injured on turf as opposed to grass? I thought that was settled long ago.
 
I’ll keep asking everyone. Why don’t our opponents get so many season ending injuries when they play in the dome?
It’s because of the amount of repetitions our players have on it in such great quantities, creating a “last straw” situation on primarily our guys. Imagine a burlap bag and it’s fibers, the fibers start to fray and break weakening the ligament fibers one by one from the attachment points til the overall tensile strength is lost to allow the final straw tearing of it wholesale with (ANOTHER) non contact injury to the knee which this one was another example of him crumbling down like he did from a simple upper body block.

As someone who played on turf (gonna use this response Rick for an overall message in this thread), grass all types of surfaces, then taught orthopedics for 30 years with special attention to the various mechanisms of injury associated with knee injuries and the specifics knee injury types themselves(acl vs. mcl, meniscus all of the above etc - or all the above), then spending time on the turf assessing it with my own various movements on it, I can say with certainty it’s the turf.

This is the only team I follow closely so as someone suggested above a serious study need be done and as an edit I don’t think our turf is unique so I’m sure it’s happening all across the nation in greater numbers as shown to be true in another thread that was posted showing research on this:

As I suggested elsewhere a return to the old type turf but with better padding beneath is the answer so it doesn’t feel like concrete. As it is this new turf is too spongy transmitting too much energy force into these kids knees.
 
Last edited:
It’s because of the amount of repetitions our players have in it in such great quantities, creating a “last straw” situation on primarily our guys. Imagine a burlap bag and it’s fibers, the fibers start to fray and break weakening the ligament fibers one by one til the overall tensile strength is lost to allow the final straw tearing of it wholesale with (ANOTHER) non contact injury to the knee which this one was another example of him crumbling down like he did from a simple upper body block.

As someone who played on turf (gonna use this response Rick for an overall message in this thread), grass all types of surfaces, then taught orthopedics for 30 years with special attention to the various mechanisms of injury associated with knee injuries and the specifics knee injury types themselves(acl vs. mcl, meniscus all of the above etc - or all the above), then spending time on the turf assessing it with my own various movements on it, I can say with certainty it’s the turf.

This is the only team I follow closely so as someone suggested above a serious study need be done. As I suggested elsewhere a return to the old type turf but with better padding beneath is the answer so it doesn’t feel like concrete. As it is this new turf is too spongy transmitting too much energy force into these kids knees.
Have you expressed this concern to Wildhack? Might be well-taken,
 
Is there some disagreement on whether you are more likely to get injured on turf as opposed to grass? I thought that was settled long ago.

More likely on turf.
 
Have you expressed this concern to Wildhack? Might be well-taken,
No don’t don’t see him ever despite seeing lots of prominent SU folk routinely. Don’t want to be that guy Bringing it up out of nowhere. If it’s ever appropriate I sure will.
 
It’s because of the amount of repetitions our players have in it in such great quantities, creating a “last straw” situation on primarily our guys. Imagine a burlap bag and it’s fibers, the fibers start to fray and break weakening the ligament fibers one by one til the overall tensile strength is lost to allow the final straw tearing of it wholesale with (ANOTHER) non contact injury to the knee which this one was another example of him crumbling down like he did from a simple upper body block.

As someone who played on turf (gonna use this response Rick for an overall message in this thread), grass all types of surfaces, then taught orthopedics for 30 years with special attention to the various mechanisms of injury associated with knee injuries and the specifics knee injury types themselves(acl vs. mcl, meniscus all of the above etc - or all the above), then spending time on the turf assessing it with my own various movements on it, I can say with certainty it’s the turf.

This is the only team I follow closely so as someone suggested above a serious study need be done and as an edit I don’t think our turf is unique so I’m sure it’s happening all across the nation in greater numbers as shown to be true in another thread that was posted showing research on this:


As I suggested elsewhere a return to the old type turf but with better padding beneath is the answer so it doesn’t feel like concrete. As it is this new turf is too spongy transmitting too much energy force into these kids knees.
Unfortunately, this turf is sitting on concrete.
 
It’s because of the amount of repetitions our players have in it in such great quantities, creating a “last straw” situation on primarily our guys. Imagine a burlap bag and it’s fibers, the fibers start to fray and break weakening the ligament fibers one by one til the overall tensile strength is lost to allow the final straw tearing of it wholesale with (ANOTHER) non contact injury to the knee which this one was another example of him crumbling down like he did from a simple upper body block.

As someone who played on turf (gonna use this response Rick for an overall message in this thread), grass all types of surfaces, then taught orthopedics for 30 years with special attention to the various mechanisms of injury associated with knee injuries and the specifics knee injury types themselves(acl vs. mcl, meniscus all of the above etc - or all the above), then spending time on the turf assessing it with my own various movements on it, I can say with certainty it’s the turf.

This is the only team I follow closely so as someone suggested above a serious study need be done and as an edit I don’t think our turf is unique so I’m sure it’s happening all across the nation in greater numbers as shown to be true in another thread that was posted showing research on this:


As I suggested elsewhere a return to the old type turf but with better padding beneath is the answer so it doesn’t feel like concrete. As it is this new turf is too spongy transmitting too much energy force into these kids knees.
Well said. There’s a very real cumulative impact
 
It’s because of the amount of repetitions our players have in it in such great quantities, creating a “last straw” situation on primarily our guys. Imagine a burlap bag and it’s fibers, the fibers start to fray and break weakening the ligament fibers one by one til the overall tensile strength is lost to allow the final straw tearing of it wholesale with (ANOTHER) non contact injury to the knee which this one was another example of him crumbling down like he did from a simple upper body block.

As someone who played on turf (gonna use this response Rick for an overall message in this thread), grass all types of surfaces, then taught orthopedics for 30 years with special attention to the various mechanisms of injury associated with knee injuries and the specifics knee injury types themselves(acl vs. mcl, meniscus all of the above etc - or all the above), then spending time on the turf assessing it with my own various movements on it, I can say with certainty it’s the turf.

This is the only team I follow closely so as someone suggested above a serious study need be done and as an edit I don’t think our turf is unique so I’m sure it’s happening all across the nation in greater numbers as shown to be true in another thread that was posted showing research on this:


As I suggested elsewhere a return to the old type turf but with better padding beneath is the answer so it doesn’t feel like concrete. As it is this new turf is too spongy transmitting too much energy force into these kids knees.

You know 100x more than anyone here. But I’m not convinced about the cumulative effect. Even a slight tear a player will know because of some pain and he’s be checked out. We also use the same turf as many other teams. I think it’s a combination of a lot of things including dumb luck.
 
Let’s compare the Dome with what’s in use at Jerry World and Mercedes-Benz Stadium (as well as stadiums used by the Lions, Colts, etc.).
 
In 2016, due to lobbying by the Baltimore Ravens players and staff, M & T Bank Stadium switched from artificial turf to grass.
It's worth noting that 17 of 32 NFL teams play their home games on grass.
 
You think...but it overwhelmingly is affecting Cuse players.

I'm not ready to go down that road...but agree they need to figure out if their is a cause or just random bad luck.
And it's the same turf that is on all of our practice fields and in the Ensley Center where players spend much more of their time, isn't it? And the only significant injury I can think of from there is Lamson.

There are more than enough studies that show knee injuries occur more often on artificial turf than on grass, so I certainly won't dispute that, but I am not sure our turf is significantly worse than the 17 NFL teams and 65% of Division I schools that have artifical turf fields. Definitely warrants investigation, If Williams definitively suffered a season ending knee injury he would join Elmore, Thompson, and Lockett as starters lost this year. Statistical anomaly or a predictive pattern?
 
And it's the same turf that is on all of our practice fields and in the Ensley Center where players spend much more of their time, isn't it? And the only significant injury I can think of from there is Lamson.

There are more than enough studies that show knee injuries occur more often on artificial turf than on grass, so I certainly won't dispute that, but I am not sure our turf is significantly worse than the 17 NFL teams and 65% of Division I schools that have artifical turf fields. Definitely warrants investigation, If Williams definitively suffered a season ending knee injury he would join Elmore, Thompson, and Lockett as starters lost this year. Statistical anomaly or a predictive pattern?

Doesn't the turf basically come from the same couple of companies?

I would think the big difference is Ensley / Manley are in constant use (practically 24 / 7) where the Dome is really a special events place - meaning the practice fields are likely more beaten in.
 
Can lightbulbs for grass growth be put in the Dome, and if so - would they work well?
 

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