Getting great reports on Tyler Roberson

[pearl31]

Yes, that's how this works. Players get better by playing in games a lot faster than they improve only at practice. I've been a fan for over 40 years. Trust me.

So Roberson didn't play in games?

 

[IthacaMatt]

So Roberson didn't play in games?

He would have improved more if he played more.

 

[SoBristol]

Yes, that's how this works. Players get better by playing in games a lot faster than they improve only at practice. I've been a fan for over 40 years. Trust me.

That is the perspective of a fan -- who only sees the players who get a few game minutes. Maybe 10 minutes a week?

The coaches see the 500 minutes the players devote to practice every week. A little game time would of course help, but how much compared to what happens in practice, and S&C?

Roberson came in highly rated and got a few opportunities on the court this season. Did he develop significantly more than BJ? How would you know?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

He would have improved more if he played more.

If this were true Christmas and Gbinje would have been significantly improved. They played plenty of minutes all season and were basically the same players in March that they were in November. Roberson certainly didn't make the most of the minutes he did get, and didn't really do anything to earn more time.

 

[Cuse'91]

If this were true Christmas and Gbinje would have been significantly improved. They played plenty of minutes all season and were basically the same players in March that they were in November. Roberson certainly didn't make the most of the minutes he did get, and didn't really do anything to earn more time.

You really think MG "played plenty of minutes all season?" Of course, it's pretty tough to play well when you're a small forward trying to play point guard, especially looking over your shoulder for your coach holding a big giant hook to pull you out if you sneeze badly...
RAK did "significantly improve" over the course of the season... If he were a stock, RAK went from sell to hold... Hopefully he goes from Hold to Buy this season...

 

[SoBristol]

Upperclassmen who played a lot in previous seasons (CJ, Keita, Rak) aren't going to make a lot of improvement in the course of a season.

It should be different for frosh, or someone who sat out (Gbinije).

But still, most of the improvement (unseen to fans) will be in practice and S&C; and even more improvement in the off-season. That few minutes of game time? Helps, sure -- just how much?

Players who get a few minutes under JB (CJ as a frosh) are the guys who improve in practice enough to earn it.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

You really think MG "played plenty of minutes all season?" Of course, it's pretty tough to play well when you're a small forward trying to play point guard, especially looking over your shoulder for your coach holding a big giant hook to pull you out if you sneeze badly...
RAK did "significantly improve" over the course of the season... If he were a stock, RAK went from sell to hold...

Gbinije played 10-15 per game. He averaged 15 minutes per game for the season. Isn't that what you said Roberson should have gotten? There was an 8 game stretch (Clemson to Georgia Tech) where he played about 20 minutes per game. He never got any better, and he was playing small forward or shooting guard most of the time.

Rak scored 11 points over the last 3 games of the season. He didn't score against Maryland and scored 3 points in the Georgia Tech loss. You think he was much improved?

 

[Cuse'91]

Gbinije played 10-15 per game. He averaged 15 minutes per game for the season. Isn't that what you said Roberson should have gotten? There was an 8 game stretch (Clemson to Georgia Tech) where he played about 20 minutes per game. He never got any better, and he was playing small forward or shooting guard most of the time.

Rak scored 11 points over the last 3 games of the season. He didn't score against Maryland and scored 3 points in the Georgia Tech loss. You think he was much improved?

If you think MG got quality minutes this season, I don't know what to say to that...
If you are evaluating RAK based on scoring points, I don't know what to say to that...

 

[Brooky03]

If you think MG got quality minutes this season, I don't know what to say to that...
If you are evaluating RAK based on scoring points, I don't know what to say to that...

Gbinije did get quality minutes. He played in every game, was the 7th guy off the bench, and averaged 15 minutes per game, which is quality time. If you expected him to play 20+, you were kidding yourself. And a lot of his time was not at PG.

 

[Cuse'91]

Gbinije did get quality minutes. He played in every game, was the 7th guy off the bench, and averaged 15 minutes per game, which is quality time. If you expected him to play 20+, you were kidding yourself. And a lot of his time was not at PG.

Hey, if you have concrete stats that say MG got quality minutes, there you have it... My impression of his season included a lot of single digit minute type games...

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

If you think MG got quality minutes this season, I don't know what to say to that...
If you are evaluating RAK based on scoring points, I don't know what to say to that...

Is 15 minutes per game considered quality minutes? Go look at his game log. I don't know why you think he didn't get quality minutes. Like I said, from the Clemson game until the the Georgia Tech game-8 games-he averaged 21 mpg. Why didn't Gbinije improve with all those minutes, if it's just about playing time?

What are we supposed to evaluate RAK on? Not offense? He was always a pretty good defender, but his blocked shots didn't really go up. Did he become a much better rebounder? Just looking at his last 4 games, he averaged about 5 per game. What can you point to that illustrates significant improvement exactly? His numbers were nearly identical from last year.

 

[Cuse'91]

Is 15 minutes per game considered quality minutes? Go look at his game log. I don't know why you think he didn't get quality minutes. Like I said, from the Clemson game until the the Georgia Tech game-8 games-he averaged 21 mpg. Why didn't Gbinije improve with all those minutes, if it's just about playing time?

What are we supposed to evaluate RAK on? Not offense? He was always a pretty good defender, but his blocked shots didn't really go up. Did he become a much better rebounder? Just looking at his last 4 games, he averaged about 5 per game. What can you point to that illustrates significant improvement exactly? His numbers were nearly identical from last year.

I don't hold value in following stats in a vacuum, I felt MG got short changed in minutes in a lot of games. Especially as our 3rd guard, when our starters are playing basically the entire game...There were many games where MG should have played more, especially in more meaningful times in a game. Miami, Pitt, BC, NC State were some of these games I believe...

All I know is that prior to last year I would have traded RAK for a pack of chewing gum, now, I feel he is a valued asset to our team...

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I don't hold value in following stats in a vacuum, I felt MG got short changed in minutes in a lot of games. Especially as our 3rd guard, when our starters are playing basically the entire game...There were many games where MG should have played more, especially in more meaningful times in a game. Miami, Pitt, BC, NC State were some of these games I believe...

All I know is that prior to last year I would have traded RAK for a pack of chewing gum, now, I feel he is a valued asset to our team...

Stats aside what can you point to that show significant improvement for either player? RAK may be an asset but he didn't improve much at all. It's hard to say Gbinje is being short changed when he doesn't produce in the minutes he does get, right?

 

[JoeSU]

If you think MG got quality minutes this season, I don't know what to say to that...
If you are evaluating RAK based on scoring points, I don't know what to say to that...

I won't dispute that MG deserved more PT, but who's minutes do you take away? Do you sit Fair or Grant? Cooney was averaging >14 pts/game through the ND game, and he provided the offense with a dimension (outside shooting) the team lacked, that helped spread opposing defenses. When Ennis wasn't on the floor the offense stagnated.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I don't hold value in following stats in a vacuum, I felt MG got short changed in minutes in a lot of games. Especially as our 3rd guard, when our starters are playing basically the entire game...There were many games where MG should have played more, especially in more meaningful times in a game. Miami, Pitt, BC, NC State were some of these games I believe...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56115/michael-gbinije

7 games out of 34 where Gbinje didn't play at least 10 minutes. 18 games where he played at least 15 minutes.

 

[IthacaMatt]

That is the perspective of a fan -- who only sees the players who get a few game minutes. Maybe 10 minutes a week?

The coaches see the 500 minutes the players devote to practice every week. A little game time would of course help, but how much compared to what happens in practice, and S&C?

Roberson came in highly rated and got a few opportunities on the court this season. Did he develop significantly more than BJ? How would you know?

I used to be among the people who would visit practices at Manley back in the day. I also used to go to the ABCD Camp in Teaneck, NJ every year for about 6 or 7 years and write about upcoming HS prospects for this site back in the '90s and early 2000's.

Roberson didn't get enough time to develop as much as we would have liked in advance of this season. That was the original point. B.J. got even less court time. Take B.J. as an example. The kid is a terrific shooter, but pretty much tanked in his limited shots in the early season.

Playing well in practice does not automatically translate into playing well in games. It takes time to get used to being on the floor, where one slip up will get you yanked and yelled at by Boeheim in front of 20-30K people, plus television cameras. One name for you: Ethan Cole. Practice All American, but could never get it together in front of a live audience.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If this were true Christmas and Gbinje would have been significantly improved. They played plenty of minutes all season and were basically the same players in March that they were in November. Roberson certainly didn't make the most of the minutes he did get, and didn't really do anything to earn more time.

Christmas DID improve a lot over the course of the season. He went from a guy who couldn't stay on the floor to someone who could actually be effective for 30 minutes a game. His defense improved tremendously once he only played at the center position.

Gbinije also improved as the season went on. He was reluctant to shoot early on. Look at Silent G's game log on ESPN.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56115/michael-gbinije

You can see that he got a lot of time early in the season, but then he disappeared from the rotation in the middle of the season as Cooney was playing great. And then beginning around the time of the Clemson game on Feb 9th (Cooney slumping from outside ...), Mike started playing a lot more and became a more significant part of the rotation down the stretch.

You get better by playing games.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Is 15 minutes per game considered quality minutes? Go look at his game log. I don't know why you think he didn't get quality minutes. Like I said, from the Clemson game until the the Georgia Tech game-8 games-he averaged 21 mpg. Why didn't Gbinije improve with all those minutes, if it's just about playing time?

What are we supposed to evaluate RAK on? Not offense? He was always a pretty good defender, but his blocked shots didn't really go up. Did he become a much better rebounder? Just looking at his last 4 games, he averaged about 5 per game. What can you point to that illustrates significant improvement exactly? His numbers were nearly identical from last year.

If you play more than 8-10 minutes a game, that's a run of 4 or 5 minutes each half - from one TV timeout to the next. That's long enough to have an impact on the game, and to make an impression that the coach should keep you out there longer.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Funny how the Pitino's, PayPalCal's, and Izzo's of the world tend to favour deeper benches and developing young players, by doing the obvious...letting them play.
There's very little that I disagree w/ regarding JB and his philosophies, but we've all seen this movie before: Barring a major crisis or injury, he's NOT gonna play his bench. When forced to he'll loosen the leash to 9... at most. But come the post-season, we live or die, all options OFF the table, circumstances notwithstanding, with 7 guys. Period.
I think it sucks. I think he's wrong. And I think he was exposed mightily this past season by running his starters into the ground. JMHO.

 

[IthacaMatt]

What are we supposed to evaluate RAK on? Not offense? He was always a pretty good defender, but his blocked shots didn't really go up. Did he become a much better rebounder? Just looking at his last 4 games, he averaged about 5 per game. What can you point to that illustrates significant improvement exactly? His numbers were nearly identical from last year.

Rak had 4 games of double digit rebounds from February to the end of the season. He had none before that.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Christmas DID improve a lot over the course of the season. He went from a guy who couldn't stay on the floor to someone who could actually be effective for 30 minutes a game. His defense improved tremendously once he only played at the center position.

Gbinije also improved as the season went on. He was reluctant to shoot early on. Look at Silent G's game log on ESPN.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56115/michael-gbinije

You can see that he got a lot of time early in the season, but then he disappeared from the rotation in the middle of the season as Cooney was playing great. And then beginning around the time of the Clemson game on Feb 9th (Cooney slumping from outside ...), Mike started playing a lot more and became a more significant part of the rotation down the stretch.

You get better by playing games.

Matt, in that 8 game stretch where Gbinje played 21 mpg, he averaged under 4 pts and just over 2 rebounds per game. He didn't improve at all, despite playing more minutes.

How did Christmas improve? Compare Rak's first 4 games against decent competition (Minn., Cal, Baylor, Indiana) to his last 4 games of the season. Numbers aren't much different at all (very mediocre). He had to stay on the floor, once Coleman was out.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

If you play more than 8-10 minutes a game, that's a run of 4 or 5 minutes each half - from one TV timeout to the next. That's long enough to have an impact on the game, and to make an impression that the coach should keep you out there longer.

Gbinje played 15 mpg, which is certainly considered quality time. He didn't get significantly better with playing 15-20 mpg all season, and it's not likely Roberson would have either.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Rak had 4 games of double digit rebounds from February to the end of the season. He had none before that.

He also had 10 games with 5 or less rebounds after January 1.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Funny how the Pitino's, PayPalCal's, and Izzo's of the world tend to favour deeper benches and developing young players, by doing the obvious...letting them play.
There's very little that I disagree w/ regarding JB and his philosophies. But we've all seen this movie before: Barring a major crisis or injury, he's NOT gonna play his bench. When forced to he'll loosen the lease to 9... at most. But come the post-season, we live or die, all options OFF the table, circumstances notwithstanding, with 7 guys. Period.
I think it sucks. I think he's wrong. And I think he was exposed mightily this past season by running his starters into the ground. JMHO.

Calipari usually plays 7-8 guys and tends to get really good freshmen that are far better than ours. Pitino played 8 this year. Izzo played 6 kids in the loss to UConn.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

[quote="You get better by playing games.[/quote]

Again, if that were true, Rak would be much improved from even his sophomore season. His numbers are identical to his sophomore season, and not significantly better than his freshman season. Rak and Gbinje are perfect examples of kids that don't necessarily significantly improve just because of playing time.