Getting great reports on Tyler Roberson

[Consigliere]

Epic thread is EPIC.

People don't think a top recruit, who didn't get a chance over the summer to play/improve his game, would improve over the course of the season with more minutes.

Too bad there isn't a provision for college athletics where a player can develop skills and confidence in a controlled setting playing against equally talented players in a game-like setting without the ramifications of an impact on the team's W-L record. If this could be done in a closed environment with only coaches present who could evaluate the player's progress on a day-to-day basis and better determine his ability to contribute in a real game situation - maybe hold these sessions in a facility designed especially for that purpose - then we could rely on the coaches to make these decisions instead of what-iffing ad infinitum on internet bulletin boards. Got to be a way to make this happen...

 

[SoBristol]

MCW is a good example.
Would have played more as a frosh if not behind 3 veteran guards, including a sub who turned to be a lottery pick and should have if anything played more.
Would have helped his development to get some more time as a frosh.
But his off-season improvement was largely because he got a lot stronger (gained at least 15 lbs of needed muscle) and worked hard to improve his handle. His improvement into his soph year was not held back (at least not in any measurable way) by not getting a few more minutes in 2011-12.

Same probably true for BJ and Roberson. What they are doing now to get stronger, and to play in competitive off-season games, will be far more important than playing 4 minutes per game as frosh so fans can see them.

 

[TheCusian]

JB plays his guys relative to how well they practice compared to the players in front of them. He won't budge on that, and I'm glad he doesn't.

All the other could haves and should haves never take this into account. The title of OP suggests that there are players who didn't play as much as they wanted to, got the message and are rectifying the situation.

 

[Henny & Coke]

JB plays his guys relative to how well they practice compared to the players in front of them. He won't budge on that, and I'm glad he doesn't.

All the other could haves and should haves never take this into account. The title of OP suggests that there are players who didn't play as much as they wanted to, got the message and are rectifying the situation.

Question to the "JB sees him everyday in practice" or "practice well and you will play" crowd:

Who's last player that started the year getting very little playing time, but finished the season playing major minutes ahead of someone else (not due to injury/suspension)? How many examples of this can we cite? I honestly don't remember this happening.

 

[OttoMets]

Question to the "JB sees him everyday in practice" or "practice well and you will play" crowd:

Who's last player that started the year getting very little playing time, but finished the season playing major minutes ahead of someone else (not due to injury/suspension)? How many examples of this can we cite? I honestly don't remember this happening.

Ongenaut over Harris in 2009.

But you have a valid point - it's not common for upstarts to leapfrog the preferred players over the course of a season.

 

[SoBristol]

Question to the "JB sees him everyday in practice" or "practice well and you will play" crowd:

Who's last player that started the year getting very little playing time, but finished the season playing major minutes ahead of someone else (not due to injury/suspension)? How many examples of this can we cite? I honestly don't remember this happening.

Not recalling an example of someone who was not playing at all, but in recent years CJ as a frosh got more time as the season proceeded (at the expense of Southerland), Keita earned more time at the expense of Fab and in another year DC2, Scoop took some of BT's minutes, and Dion did the same the next year.

Can't say these decisions were based on practice -- as in each case there was game performance to judge.

Flip this -- examples where a bench player was reported to be outplaying a rotation guy but not getting a chance on game day?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Matt, in that 8 game stretch where Gbinje played 21 mpg, he averaged under 4 pts and just over 2 rebounds per game. He didn't improve at all, despite playing more minutes.

How did Christmas improve? Compare Rak's first 4 games against decent competition (Minn., Cal, Baylor, Indiana) to his last 4 games of the season. Numbers aren't much different at all (very mediocre). He had to stay on the floor, once Coleman was out.

Alpha, we'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, Gbinije was more assertive and more confident toward the end of the season. It may not have shown up in the box score, but to my eyes, if you watched him play in November and December, he almost refused to look at the basket when he had the ball on offense. By the end of the year, as Cooney was dying out there, Gbinije tried to do more and actually tried to make plays on the offensive end of the floor.

As for Christmas, once we lost Coleman, Christmas knew he was going to get minutes and I think he played more confidently and committed fewer fouls per minute. He didn't get in terrible foul trouble for most of the 2nd half of the season, As when Baye twisted his knee and Grant's back was bothering him, Christmas still did a nice job clearing the defensive boards and providing presence as a rim protector without fouling out of every game.

I think they both made strides last year and both will be more consistent and assertive this year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The main reason for lack of offense was not JB's fault, it was simply that none of the players could put the ball in the hoop with any consistency. Oh, and they had good opportunities to do so.

To be honest, our offensive sets aren't that sophisticated and aren't that difficult to defend. In Boeheim's offense, it really comes down to people who are able to beat their man off the dribble, or can hit an open jump shot. We used to have more creativity on the offensive end. I'd like to see him introduce a couple new wrinkles this year.

 

[sufandu]

Too bad there isn't a provision for college athletics where a player can develop skills and confidence in a controlled setting playing against equally talented players in a game-like setting without the ramifications of an impact on the team's W-L record. If this could be done in a closed environment with only coaches present who could evaluate the player's progress on a day-to-day basis and better determine his ability to contribute in a real game situation - maybe hold these sessions in a facility designed especially for that purpose - then we could rely on the coaches to make these decisions instead of what-iffing ad infinitum on internet bulletin boards. Got to be a way to make this happen...

If only there were a way for fans of a team to gather together and discuss things related to said team. They could discuss the good times and the bad. The could congratulate coaches and players on their successes and brag about them. They could even question things players did in a game or the decisions coaches made. But, alas, fans should just be quiet about their team and trust that everything, including players and coaches, about their team is infallible.

 

[dollarbill44]

Pretty sure CJ was being guarded by a 6'4" guy and still couldnt do anything.

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all."

 

[sufandu]

To be honest, our offensive sets aren't that sophisticated and aren't that difficult to defend. In Boeheim's offense, it really comes down to people who are able to beat their man off the dribble, or can hit an open jump shot. We used to have more creativity on the offensive end. I'd like to see him introduce a couple new wrinkles this year.

I wish it were something that was done during the season. Going into a game knowing we're going to run the same stuff that hasn't worked in a month got really frustrating.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Alpha, we'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, Gbinije was more assertive and more confident toward the end of the season. It may not have shown up in the box score, but to my eyes, if you watched him play in November and December, he almost refused to look at the basket when he had the ball on offense. By the end of the year, as Cooney was dying out there, Gbinije tried to do more and actually tried to make plays on the offensive end of the floor.

As for Christmas, once we lost Coleman, Christmas knew he was going to get minutes and I think he played more confidently and committed fewer fouls per minute. He didn't get in terrible foul trouble for most of the 2nd half of the season, As when Baye twisted his knee and Grant's back was bothering him, Christmas still did a nice job clearing the defensive boards and providing presence as a rim protector without fouling out of every game.

I think they both made strides last year and both will be more consistent and assertive this year.

That's minimal improvement at best. They were both putting up the same numbers/production at the end of the season as they were the very beginning.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

What about Fab Melo? Was he that good as a freshman?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Again, the whole point is "maybe" he could've made a difference. You choose to assume the glass is half-empty, I choose the glass is half- full. The fact that he never got the opportunity to prove either one of us right or wrong, is the real issue here.
I say he should've gotten that chance, you might think otherwise.

But given what we saw from his as a freshman when he did play, why would you assume he could help us? I'll trust the coach that sees them play everyday in practice to make that call.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

He's also had a lot of talent on these past 5 teams or so. I've seen a lack of in game adjustment hurt SU a lot the past few years. Offensively he doesn't seem to adjust at all and it seems the other coaches jump on that. As a result you see the offensive production decrease toward the end of the year. I just think he's older and completely set in his ways and I don't think that's a good way to so any job.

Isn't recruiting talent a big part of winning? This team had a very good year for what we had. 28 wins against 6 losses. Ennis hits the 3, we're taking about a sweet 16. The team had holes in it from Day 1.

 

[ORANGEsPHK]

I'm kinda lost on the arguments that are going on here, mainly because I can understand all the points being made but not sure how valid any of them are. The way I saw the season end was like this:

1) Our offense stalled, we couldn't hit shots we were hitting earlier in the year. This includes "Mr. Consistent" in Mr. CJ Fair. He has been an incredibly consistent player but missed a lot of shots he has been money on. Cooney, same thing. Ennis had games where he missed his shots. The entire team did. I'm not sure changing up the offensive scheme would have helped when open shots weren't being hit. My take on this is that the starters lost some of their legs and their shots weren't going in. There were sooooo many shots that should gone in the basket (given past performances by the players), but they didn't go in towards the end of the year.

2) As for playing the youngsters - I would have loved to see them play more, especially when some of the starters aren't hitting their shots. But do you take out CJ? Grant? because they're not hitting shots? I'm not sure if its a good call to take out your most consistent offensive threats to put a freshman in. You have keep the faith in your starters and keep confidence in them. Cooney was subbed out often but Gbinije is third in line and he seemed most game ready than the freshmen in my opinion. To be honest, I thought we saw Roberson a lot more than I expected this year, so to me it looked like JB was looking for something more off the bench but Roberson wasn't playing up to JB's standard (although I thought he did a pretty good job on D for a freshman).

I think this year's team played pretty darn well but the fact that they lost steam towards the end of the year does seem to indicate tired legs and having a longer bench could possibly helped, but its not like they played an NBA schedule. I don't know what happened and what could have been changed so we had a better end to the season, all I know is that I really enjoyed this year's team and next year we get to see what the freshmen can bring to the table. And seriously, UCONN won the NT, not Kentucky, Mich St, Kansas, Arizona, Florida, etc. UCONN. I'm not sure I buy any arguments that changing up the offense, playing/developing young players would have changed our NCAAT outlook; it may have helped, it may not have. Way too many variables.

I enjoying reading the collective wisdom of this board, but since my wisdom is lacking, I'm just gonna read all the insights you guys have, learn some more about the game of college basketball and then just root for SU to do well. Its all I can do.

 

[OttoMets]

What about Fab Melo? Was he that good as a freshman?

He improved a ton.

I also thought (and said at the time) that Fab had some skills and it was inexcusable to not play him for 30 minutes a game during the non conference schedule and run his fat ass into shape. He could have been an asset; keeping a guy with that level of fitness on the bench made getting production from him an impossibility.

He also improved significantly by his second year; his defensive understanding was far ahead of where it was as a freshman.

 

[RF2044]

He improved a ton.

I also thought (and said at the time) that Fab had some skills and it was inexcusable to not play him for 30 minutes a game during the non conference schedule and run his fat ass into shape. He could have been an asset; keeping a guy with that level of fitness on the bench made getting production from him an impossibility.

He also improved significantly by his second year; his defensive understanding was far ahead of where it was as a freshman.

Fab had a hamstring issue. That impacted his fitness, and wouldn't have enabled the coaches to run his fat ass into shape, unfortunately.

 

[OttoMets]

Fab had a hamstring issue. That impacted his fitness, and wouldn't have enabled the coaches to run his fat ass into shape, unfortunately.

Didn't mean to cross a line with the criticism.

If he's hurt, he obviously can't use court time to stay (or get) fit, so my take is out the window. Keeping himself in playing shape would have been his responsibility, then, like Coleman this past spring. Without that kind of work ethic, that wasn't going to happen.

 

[RF2044]

Didn't mean to cross a line with the criticism.

If he's hurt, he obviously can't use court time to stay (or get) fit, so my take is out the window. Keeping himself in playing shape would have been his responsibility, then, like Coleman this past spring. Without that kind of work ethic, that wasn't going to happen.

Not necessary, OM--just pointing out that he was semi-limited physically. So in addition to not being ready to play at a high level due to general inexperience, his conditioning obviously was obviously a factor in his poor freshman performance, as well. But the coaches couldn't just run him to get him in better shape. It was one of those injuries where you need to shut it down for a timeframe in order to allow the player's soft tissues to recover.

Once the season was over, Fab started playing in international ball and lost a ton of weight. And went on to have a much better sophomore season.

Still steamed at this guy, though... dammit. The elements were all in place to make a run that year.