Getting great reports on Tyler Roberson

[anglerman]

Some players make the team better despite all their mistakes, MCW had quite a bit of turnovers but he made the team alot better. Ennis had few turnovers and the same thing happened. Roberson was much more lost on the defensive end then CJ and Grant and just wasn't a offensive threat.

I agree JB can be cranky and go overboard on comments towards players, And he hates pressers alot of the time, but I agree 98% of the time with him about which players deserve more playing time.

The whipping boy theory comes from alot of plus minus, if you bring alot of plus you can afford some minus. Guys like Johnny Flynn, MCW, CJ Fair, Dion waiters have had days where they shoot like 2-16, but they deserve to be on the floor they are the core of the team at 14 plus ppg. JB has got mad at Baye, Rak, Cooney and pulled them equally as mad at times this year.

JB does have whipping boys and he doesn't play enough guys. He did wear the team out last season. I'm not sure why he doesn't seem to understand the concept of fatigue. As he's getting older he's getting more set in his ways and I don't see things improving with him at all from a coaching standpoint

 

[RF2044]

If you play more than 8-10 minutes a game, that's a run of 4 or 5 minutes each half - from one TV timeout to the next. That's long enough to have an impact on the game, and to make an impression that the coach should keep you out there longer.

Agreed. 8 minutes is 20% of the game. 10 minutes is 25% of the game. That's fairly substantial PT for a reserve, even though it might not seem like it.

 

[SmilinBob]

Sometimes I wonder if Boeheim just knows how to put a fire in these guys you know what's and they realize that PT is now available and they know what happens if they don't put in the work. That said, I don't know any of these players out of season habits but have noticed BJ and Tyler getting ready big time for 2014/15.

 

[OrangeBear]

Saw Roberson working out on the court yesterday by himself + what I assume was trainer/helper. He was taking a lot of jump shots, FT line jump shot looked good. Also saw DC2 limping around while walking out of the Carmelo center, asked him how he was doing and if he would play next year, he said "good and yes."

 

[two3zone]

[quote="You get better by playing games.

Again, if that were true, Rak would be much improved from even his sophomore season. His numbers are identical to his sophomore season, and not significantly better than his freshman season. Rak and Gbinje are perfect examples of kids that don't necessarily significantly improve just because of playing time.[/quote]

This is 100% false. Rak improved his FG from %53 to 61%, that is drastic. He also shot the ball about a half shot a game less than he did his sophomore year. He rebounded about a half a rebound a game more this season than last while only averaging just 3 minutes more a game.

If anything, this is on the coaching, there is zero reason with all of our injuries this year that Rak should have only averaged 3 more minutes a game than he did the year before with his improvements, I didn't even include his 73% shooting from the line which would be an asset if he would have gotten the ball more to draw some fouls.

Anybody who says Rak didn't improve from his Soph to Jr year is either blind or has something against him, his improvements were clear even to the bare eye.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Epic thread is EPIC.

People don't think a top recruit, who didn't get a chance over the summer to play/improve his game, would improve over the course of the season with more minutes.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

"This is 100% false. Rak improved his FG from %53 to 61%, that is drastic. He also shot the ball about a half shot a game less than he did his sophomore year. He rebounded about a half a rebound a game more this season than last while only averaging just 3 minutes more a game."

That's nominal improvement. Not drastic at all.

"If anything, this is on the coaching, there is zero reason with all of our injuries this year that Rak should have only averaged 3 more minutes a game than he did the year before with his improvements, I didn't even include his 73% shooting from the line which would be an asset if he would have gotten the ball more to draw some fouls."

Foul trouble?

Anybody who says Rak didn't improve from his Soph to Jr year is either blind or has something against him, his improvements were clear even to the bare eye."

His numbers were identical to his sophomore season. You're splitting hairs talking about shooting percentage. He averaged 6 points and 5 rebounds per game despite playing 3 more minutes per game. He developed a jump hook, and shot better from the foul line. That's not substantial improvement at all.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

JB does have whipping boys and he doesn't play enough guys. He did wear the team out last season. I'm not sure why he doesn't seem to understand the concept of fatigue. As he's getting older he's getting more set in his ways and I don't see things improving with him at all from a coaching standpoint

He didn't wear out anyone. He played the kids that could contribute. We were losing to teams on 4 days rest. When Coleman was available he was playing 8 kids. Kentucky made the title game playing 7 kids.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Epic thread is EPIC.

People don't think a top recruit, who didn't get a chance over the summer to play/improve his game, would improve over the course of the season with more minutes.

I just gave you 2 who didn't. It's not just about game minutes.

 

[orangefan13]

Canada is no excuse, he could play over the summer. He just couldn't train with syracuse. And canada was a month ahead of time before practice was even supposed to start. It didn't make BJ or Ron any better playing in canada.

If we were already 8-9 deep before roberson I can see us arguing about minutes, but for a team that only had 4 scorers, if Roberson was any bit as offensively ready as gbinije or dc he would have gotten more minutes. Heck despite the defensive lapses jb gave the time to dc while he was healthy.

Yes, players get better when they get comfortable, over the shyness, and up to speed with the game. But some are works in progress and need to better their skillset as well. There was nothing in robersons skillset that even hinted he was ready to post up like grant offensively, catch and shoot around a screen, or hit a contested shot all year, and thats not a opinion.

 

[Cuse'91]

Tee posted this somewhere recently...
TR's problem last season was not a lack of skills or talent, it was confidence. Too many minds; mind div1 level opponents, mind 60,000 eyes watching him, mind hof coach with the big quick hook... "Too many minds, No Mind..."

Playing time, support of your coach, these would have made for a different player LAST year, now we have to hope for this year...

 

[tee1222]

Tee posted this somewhere recently...
TR's problem last season was not a lack of skills or talent, it was confidence. Too many minds; mind div1 level opponents, mind 60,000 eyes watching him, mind hof coach with the big quick hook... "Too many minds, No Mind..."

Playing time, support of your coach, these would have made for a different player LAST year, now we have to hope for this year...

 

[orangepassion]

MCW is a good example-After barely playing his Freshman season, Did he really improve that much in the offseason that he was so good the following year?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Playing time, support of your coach, these would have made for a different player LAST year, now we have to hope for this year...

Says who? He played and did little with his minutes. He didn't earn anymore time. Rak and Gbinje played a lot of minutes and never really improved, and they were both 3rd year kids. Just because he was supposed to be good doesn't mean he was.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

MCW is a good example-After barely playing his Freshman season, Did he really improve that much in the offseason that he was so good the following year?

Yes he did.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Epic thread is EPIC.

People don't think a top recruit, who didn't get a chance over the summer to play/improve his game, would improve over the course of the season with more minutes.

Ham, I don't really need to tell you this because you already know, but I hearby name you to be the board arbiter of epic threads.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Funny how the Pitino's, PayPalCal's, and Izzo's of the world tend to favour deeper benches and developing young players, by doing the obvious...letting them play.
There's very little that I disagree w/ regarding JB and his philosophies, but we've all seen this movie before: Barring a major crisis or injury, he's NOT gonna play his bench. When forced to he'll loosen the leash to 9... at most. But come the post-season, we live or die, all options OFF the table, circumstances notwithstanding, with 7 guys. Period.
I think it sucks. I think he's wrong. And I think he was exposed mightily this past season by running his starters into the ground. JMHO.

I'm a Boeheim Believer, but I have a hard time disagreeing with a lot of this post.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Yes he did.

Totally disagree.
WE'll never know for sure of course, but how can you say definitively that the sophomore version of MCW wouldn't have happened his freshman year, had he gotten more PT?
I remember watching freshman MCW go coast-to-coast and throw it down on St. John's at MSG, and thinking to myself "if this kid develops, by year's end we will be unstoppable".
Now if you wanna argue Dion, Triche, et al, took his available PT that's one thing. But I for one was looking forward to seeing MORE of MCW in the Tourney that year, and yet the kid was completely SHUT-DOWN for the Dance. And yes, we made the Elite 8 that year, but we'll never know if an experienced MCW might've made a difference versus Aaron Craft and OSU, for instance. Which is basically the whole point of the "play-em" argument...WHY THE HELL NOT????
Call me an optimist, but I'd like to believe having that option ON the table, is better than not having it at all. JMHO

 

[anglerman]

Totally disagree.
WE'll never know for sure of course, but how can you say definitively that the sophomore version of MCW wouldn't have happened his freshman year, had he gotten more PT?
I remember watching freshman MCW go coast-to-coast and throw it down on St. John's at MSG, and thinking to myself "if this kid develops, by year's end we will be unstoppable".
Now if you wanna argue Dion, Triche, et al, took his available PT that's one thing. But I for one was looking forward to seeing MORE of MCW in the Tourney that year, and yet the kid was completely SHUT-DOWN for the Dance. And yes, we made the Elite 8 that year, but we'll never know if an experienced MCW might've made a difference versus Aaron Craft and OSU, for instance. Which is basically the whole point of the "play-em" argument...WHY THE HELL NOT????
Call me an optimist, but I'd like to believe having that option ON the table, is better than not having it at all. JMHO

Reality Is that JB is an older man and as we know the older people get the more set in their ways they become. He isn't likely to change at all going forward and he's not likey to be able to adjust to change very well. IMO he should retire. I believe 7o is very old for any coach and I honestly believe he's out lived his ability to be a great coach. I know many will attack my oppinion but I think he's had a successful extremely long career and it's time he retires I saw lapses in judgement last year during games that I think could be age related

He admitted during the Duke game that he didn't know how much time was left on the clock. It's possible this and his lack of composer at that moment was just because of advancing age.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Totally disagree.
WE'll never know for sure of course, but how can you say definitively that the sophomore version of MCW wouldn't have happened his freshman year, had he gotten more PT?
I remember watching freshman MCW go coast-to-coast and throw it down on St. John's at MSG, and thinking to myself "if this kid develops, by year's end we will be unstoppable".
Now if you wanna argue Dion, Triche, et al, took his available PT that's one thing. But I for one was looking forward to seeing MORE of MCW in the Tourney that year, and yet the kid was completely SHUT-DOWN for the Dance. And yes, we made the Elite 8 that year, but we'll never know if an experienced MCW might've made a difference versus Aaron Craft and OSU, for instance. Which is basically the whole point of the "play-em" argument...WHY THE HELL NOT????
Call me an optimist, but I'd like to believe having that option ON the table, is better than not having it at all. JMHO

Totally disagree.
WE'll never know for sure of course, but how can you say definitively that the sophomore version of MCW wouldn't have happened his freshman year, had he gotten more PT?
I remember watching freshman MCW go coast-to-coast and throw it down on St. John's at MSG, and thinking to myself "if this kid develops, by year's end we will be unstoppable".
Now if you wanna argue Dion, Triche, et al, took his available PT that's one thing. But I for one was looking forward to seeing MORE of MCW in the Tourney that year, and yet the kid was completely SHUT-DOWN for the Dance. And yes, we made the Elite 8 that year, but we'll never know if an experienced MCW might've made a difference versus Aaron Craft and OSU, for instance. Which is basically the whole point of the "play-em" argument...WHY THE HELL NOT????
Call me an optimist, but I'd like to believe having that option ON the table, is better than not having it at all. JMHO

As good as MCW was his sophomore year, he still had a lot of flaws. He was a terrible shooter and turned the ball over a ton. You really think he would have made a difference against Aaron Craft when a year later he couldn't do anything against Trey Burke in Atlanta? We went 34-3 that year and didn't go further because we lost Fab Melo. MCW was nowhere near that good as a freshman. He improved a lot.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Reality Is that JB is an older man and as we know the older people get the more set in their ways they become. He isn't likely to change at all going forward and he's not likey to be able to adjust to change very well. IMO he should retire. I believe 7o is very old for any coach and I honestly believe he's out lived his ability to be a great coach. I know many will attack my oppinion but I think he's had a successful extremely long career and it's time he retires I saw lapses in judgement last year during games that I think could be age related

He admitted during the Duke game that he didn't know how much time was left on the clock. It's possible this and his lack of composer at that moment was just because of advancing age.

Nobody was complaining when he took us to a Final Four last year and when we were 25-0 and #1 in the nation this year. He just finished 2nd in the ACC after losing 3 starters. How about a little perspective?

 

[anglerman]

Nobody was complaining when he took us to a Final Four last year and when we were 25-0 and #1 in the nation this year. He just finished 2nd in the ACC after losing 3 starters. How about a little perspective?

He's also had a lot of talent on these past 5 teams or so. I've seen a lack of in game adjustment hurt SU a lot the past few years. Offensively he doesn't seem to adjust at all and it seems the other coaches jump on that. As a result you see the offensive production decrease toward the end of the year. I just think he's older and completely set in his ways and I don't think that's a good way to so any job.

 

[realorange]

He's also had a lot of talent on these past 5 teams or so. I've seen a lack of in game adjustment hurt SU a lot the past few years. Offensively he doesn't seem to adjust at all and it seems the other coaches jump on that. As a result you see the offensive production decrease toward the end of the year. I just think he's older and completely set in his ways and I don't think that's a good way to so any job.

The main reason for lack of offense was not JB's fault, it was simply that none of the players could put the ball in the hoop with any consistency. Oh, and they had good opportunities to do so.

 

[DoctorBombay]

As good as MCW was his sophomore year, he still had a lot of flaws. He was a terrible shooter and turned the ball over a ton. You really think he would have made a difference against Aaron Craft when a year later he couldn't do anything against Trey Burke in Atlanta? We went 34-3 that year and didn't go further because we lost Fab Melo. MCW was nowhere near that good as a freshman. He improved a lot.

Again, the whole point is "maybe" he could've made a difference. You choose to assume the glass is half-empty, I choose the glass is half- full. The fact that he never got the opportunity to prove either one of us right or wrong, is the real issue here.
I say he should've gotten that chance, you might think otherwise.

 

[OttoMets]

Again, the whole point is "maybe" he could've made a difference. You choose to assume the glass is half-empty, I choose the glass is half- full. The fact that he never got the opportunity to prove either one of us right or wrong, is the real issue here.
I say he should've gotten that chance, you might think otherwise.

I agree with your take in general. With Carter-Williams, I think he shot himself in the foot when he dogged it on three consecutive defensive transition trips against UConn and then went after Boeheim in the huddle.

Going into the postseason, when the staff met and discussed the viability of (gasp) maintaining a deep rotation with Mike getting consistent minutes, this was a concern. Playing defense and being a good soldier, so to speak, are behaviors prized by Boeheim.

In 11 games after the UConn meltdown, Mike had 7 DNPs (including the three games immediately after the incident) and scored 4 points. He made the coaches' decision easier, though it's possible that he could have added something on offense.

But I agree that Carter-Williams and countless other SU players are not suddenly infinitely better as sophomores than they were as freshmen. They all improve, yeah, but not to that degree. The difference is that they get real court time and have a longer leash.