Gmac

[GooseMutt]

It is ours--the university and its fans. That's what happens. The program is bigger than him now. That's the reality of modern-day college basketball. Ask Bobby Knight. Sure, he was forced out because he was an arrogant jerk who defied the administration. But the fact that he wasn't winning enough contributed to his demise.

I hear you but I am in some kind of limbo between my appreciation and respect for what he's done and wanting the program to move forward and I don't know if they can co exist

 

[Day2]

He better win then. The fans here aren't going to be able to handle another season like the last 3.

I'll take two NITs and a Final Four every three years.

 

[moqui]

You're asking the right questions.

and the answer - plain as the nose on one's face

 

[Sherman20]

I hear you but I am in some kind of limbo between my appreciation and respect for what he's done and wanting the program to move forward and I don't know if they can co exist

I get that. I feel the same. I was ready to pull off the Band Aid and start the Hop era (and transition to a more diversified defense and offense). But I have confidence that JB can get this thing back on track and keep winning, even at his age. He knows better than almost anyone what it takes to win and contend for championships at a high level Div 1 program. I get that there are legit criticisms that he put us in a bad place with recruiting (last cycle) because of his lack of clarity on whether he would turn things over to Hop and how he handled the transition overall. But I think he's reenergized and ready to move forward. He can't coach forever but I think he can go for another 4-5 years. I'm hopeful that he'll know when to step away and make the transition when the program has been steadied, not when things really go south.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I get that. I feel the same. I was ready to pull off the Band Aid and start the Hop era (and transition to a more diversified defense and offense). But I have confidence that JB can get this thing back on track and keep winning, even at his age. He knows better than almost anyone what it takes to win and contend for championships at a high level Div 1 program. I get that there are legit criticisms that he put us in a bad place with recruiting (last cycle) because of his lack of clarity on whether he would turn things over to Hop and how he handled the transition overall. But I think he's reenergized and ready to move forward. He can't coach forever but I think he can go for another 4-5 years. I'm hopeful that he'll know when to step away and make the transition when the program has been steadied, not when things really go south.

It will all hinge on recruiting and whether he will be able to recruit like the good ole days. He is going to need to recruit his ass off and hope the recruits are buying what he is selling. Let's face it...he does zone 100% and depends on a very simplistic offense based on ISO principles. Boeheim isn't going to outscheme anybody with X's and O's using mediocre recruits. It all depends on getting some blue-chippers. We'll see.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

So, in the ACC, guys like Coach K, Leonard Hamilton, Larranaga, Ol Cryin' Roy, Pitino, etc - NONE of whom are spring chickens -
aren't going to have this issue, but Jim Boeheim and ONLY Jim Boeheim alone, will?

Please.

OK, please list the designated Head Coach in Waiting for each of those programs.
We'll wait here.

1) It's not a matter of the coach's actual age. If he has the stink of retirement about him, for any reason, that's reason for doubt in the minds of recruits and the people recruiting against us.
2) No one thinks of Pitino as being 'old.' Hamilton and Larranaga are irrelevant, since we're on equal or superior footing to them recruiting-wise anyway. K and Roy? They're still producing at a high level, and still recruiting at a high level.

JB's problems are three-fold. Age is discussed. He was scheduled to retire already, so we lost while having an unknown poised to take over. Then he didn't retire, but announced a curious contract after saying for years that he was always going 'year-to-year.' Who now can have any sense of how long he'll be here? And lastly, we've been at .500 for three straight years and our incoming class isn't dynamic enough to have us perceived as being on an uptick. Saying some other coach is 70+ also means absolutely nothing unless some other factor or combination of factors stains him somehow.

It's unfortunate we made the 'coach in waiting' thing public. I get it, but when JB said he would be done at a certain time and then 'reneged' (for whatever reason), it put us in limbo. We really, really need a big year in the ACC in 17-18.

 

[rrlbees]

Gmac jaw brought in Buss, Moyer and Sidibie in 4-5 years. Just in volume alone that stinks.

Moyer redshirted so we'll see and Sidibie looks to be a solid 4 year guy.


We're not winning on the deals he closes, if he was in sales he'd been fired years ago and it has nothing to do with Tucker or Green.

Your correct on those 3 but he also played a big role with battle. Plus half your timeframe he wasn't hardly on the road as a recruiter.

Plus look at it this way. If young goes to Kentucky as many thought and Knox goes to Duke as many expected, two things SU has no control over, we get green and Tucker most likely. Then with those 2 along with the others everyone is singing GMac recruiting prowess and in reality he would have been the same recruiter regardless of outcome.

 

[two3zone]

I'll take two NITs and a Final Four every three years.

I won't call out final fours a fluke, but our path to the second one was not conventional nor a model that we should strive for if we continue to want to reach the final four.

Building a upper quarter ACC team that's well rounded with depth that brings us regular season and ACC tourney success seems like a better path to get us to a title than hoping to be on the right side of the bubble.

 

[two3zone]

1) It's not a matter of the coach's actual age. If he has the stink of retirement about him, for any reason, that's reason for doubt in the minds of recruits and the people recruiting against us.
2) No one thinks of Pitino as being 'old.' Hamilton and Larranaga are irrelevant, since we're on equal or superior footing to them recruiting-wise anyway. K and Roy? They're still producing at a high level, and still recruiting at a high level.

JB's problems are three-fold. Age is discussed. He was scheduled to retire already, so we lost while having an unknown poised to take over. Then he didn't retire, but announced a curious contract after saying for years that he was always going 'year-to-year.' Who now can have any sense of how long he'll be here? And lastly, we've been at .500 for three straight years and our incoming class isn't dynamic enough to have us perceived as being on an uptick. Saying some other coach is 70+ also means absolutely nothing unless some other factor or combination of factors stains him somehow.

It's unfortunate we made the 'coach in waiting' thing public. I get it, but when JB said he would be done at a certain time and then 'reneged' (for whatever reason), it put us in limbo. We really, really need a big year in the ACC in 17-18.

It's known that JB will be here for awhile now and nobody is knocking the doors down to sign.

 

[two3zone]

Your correct on those 3 but he also played a big role with battle. Plus half your timeframe he wasn't hardly on the road as a recruiter.

Plus look at it this way. If young goes to Kentucky as many thought and Knox goes to Duke as many expected, two things SU has no control over, we get green and Tucker most likely. Then with those 2 along with the others everyone is singing GMac recruiting prowess and in reality he would have been the same recruiter regardless of outcome.

But Tucker didn't sign so I guess that point is moot.

 

[rrlbees]

But Tucker didn't sign so I guess that point is moot.

That makes no sense.

 

[Day2]

It's known that JB will be here for awhile now and nobody is knocking the doors down to sign.

This is simply not true. We came in second to Duke and Kentucky, otherwise Green and Tucker would be here. There was an incident with Randolph and Censored, otherwise he would probably be here. Tremont Waters would come here in a heartbeat and there are several other players like him who we are not interested in. We dropped the ball with Walker, otherwise he would be here. The list goes on.

 

[Day2]

I won't call out final fours a fluke, but our path to the second one was not conventional nor a model that we should strive for if we continue to want to reach the final four.

Building a upper quarter ACC team that's well rounded with depth that brings us regular season and ACC tourney success seems like a better path to get us to a title than hoping to be on the right side of the bubble.

Our second Final Four was either 1987 or 1996, depending on how you look at it. What are you trying to say exactly?

 

[bnoro]

But Tucker didn't sign so I guess that point is moot.

For someone who works in sales, you should know there's a ton of stuff that happens with clients that's completely out of your control, regardless how well it seems like the process might be going.

Would your manager fire you if you were about to close a huge deal and your client got in a car accident and wasn't in any state to move forward with it?

 

[jordoo]

Main point in sales is if you let them walk away without signing you are at a huge risk of never getting that sale. So if it doesn't happen a good sales man is figuring out the next person to sell to who will sign. I know its not exactly like this in recruiting but its a decent comparison.

 

[TinyManInside]

That, I agree with. And with that, I question both hop and JB. How did Hop, with the job his and on the verge of getting it, go to the pics instead of recruiting.

Again, the right questions.

 

[TinyManInside]

I'll take two NITs and a Final Four every three years.

Yeah, ummmm... no. There is no school in the NCAA that has achieved sustained success with this sort of model. The pathway to F4 appearances historically has been through having dominant regular seasons and securing a 1 or 2 seed in the tournament. If you look at the historical stats they are heavily weighed towards 1 and 2 seeds.

If you go to the NIT 2 out of every 3 years, your recruiting is going to go straight into the tank, making a F4 every 3rd year extremely unlikely. It's not a sustainable model for tournament success. SU is the ONLY team in NCAA tournament history to make 2 F4 appearances in a four year stretch while posting 10+ losses in each of those years. It's a complete aberration.

 

[721Comstock]

Yeah, ummmm... no. There is no school in the NCAA that has achieved sustained success with this sort of model. The pathway to F4 appearances historically has been through having dominant regular seasons and securing a 1 or 2 seed in the tournament. If you look at the historical stats they are heavily weighed towards 1 and 2 seeds.

If you go to the NIT 2 out of every 3 years, your recruiting is going to go straight into the tank, making a F4 every 3rd year extremely unlikely. It's not a sustainable model for tournament success. SU is the ONLY team in NCAA tournament history to make 2 F4 appearances in a four year stretch while posting 10+ losses in each of those years. It's a complete aberration.

Umm, UConn probably did us one better - they sucked regular season, and won 2 NC's.
So, not quite the aberration you're suggesting. Certainly not the highest probability method tho.

 

[jordoo]

That, I agree with. And with that, I question both hop and JB. How did Hop, with the job his and on the verge of getting it, go to the pics instead of recruiting.

I would doubt it was by choice and I would doubt he had 100% say in the picking.

 

[Bayside44]

So, in the ACC, guys like Coach K, Leonard Hamilton, Larranaga, Ol Cryin' Roy, Pitino, etc - NONE of whom are spring chickens -
aren't going to have this issue, but Jim Boeheim and ONLY Jim Boeheim alone, will?

Please.

OK, please list the designated Head Coach in Waiting for each of those programs.
We'll wait here.

FSU and Miami don't matter.

UL pays like an NBA team.

Duke has Brey and Collins at the minimum.

UNC who knows.

We lost an alum, top recruiter, guy who has been embedded in the community and program, who has prepped to take over for a decade who would've probably worked below market...this ain't good..

 

[Newhouser]

FSU and Miami don't matter.

UL pays like an NBA team.

Duke has Brey and Collins at the minimum.

UNC who knows.

We lost an alum, top recruiter, guy who has been embedded in the community and program, who has prepped to take over for a decade who would've probably worked below market...this ain't good..

and quite frankly as good as we are, we aren't Duke and we aren't UNC and we aren't Louisville.

 

[Cusefan0307]

and quite frankly as good as we are, we aren't Duke and we aren't UNC and we aren't Louisville.

No reason we can't be Louisville. They were horrible for a better part of a decade before Pitino was hired. The inferiority complex around here drives me nuts. It's like some are ok with mediocrity year after year. We should be in the top four of this conference with those other schools every year. I'm not sure JB wants it enough anymore.

 

[GooseMutt]

No reason we can't be Louisville. They were horrible for a better part of a decade before Pitino was hired. The inferiority complex around here drives me nuts. It's like some are ok with mediocrity year after year. We should be in the top four of this conference with those other schools every year. I'm not sure JB wants it enough anymore.

Not trying to be a jerk but when was the last time we played Louisville as the favorite

 

[jordoo]

No reason we can't be Louisville.

Who's picking out the hookers?

 

[Ward]

Not trying to be a jerk but when was the last time we played Louisville as the favorite

True, but that could speak to just as much about how we're trending than them.