Gmac

[721Comstock]

Other than Randolf i think that we would have landed Green and Tucker

"They" are saying it was Hop who didn't want to recruit Tucker anymore, after he had some 'issues' during his official visit - and only after Hop left, that we started back after him again.

UK stole Knox from DUKE at the last minute.
Should Coach K fire himself for losing out on that one?

Once Quade met WWW - it was over.
Doesn't matter if JB was doing the whole boom box playing "In Your Eyes" thing outside his window, we were done.

But... you are entitled to your opinion.
No matter how wrong it may be.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I believe Francis said Hop wasn't allowed to go after certain players. If true, it sounds like JB was half-in half-out and that probably rubbed off on Hop the minute he knew JB wasn't going quietly into the night.

To me, that sounds like JB wanted us to only go after zone fits, while Hop was more interested in players that he would use in zone, man and pressure defenses.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Our "what if" team for 2017/2018 would've been pretty nasty:

Quade
Tyus
Randolph and/or Tucker
Brissett/Moyer
TT

Bench:
Tucker
Moyer
Sidibe
PC
5th year guard
Maybe Washington still?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think that JB deserves all of the blame. 1 for not working. 2 for getting in Hops way and 3 for putting a child in charge of our most important recruits. Its not gmacs fault that he isnt ready for prime tine which he obviously isnt. Its JBs fault for putting him in that position.

You didn't answer my question about red or hop closing against UK or Duke...

 

[FrancoPizza]

JB is back in the saddle for 218-2021 and our recruiting will solidify. Look at the net we have cast for 2018 and are starting to for 2019. JB has a pretty good track record I think we can give him a pass on this trying to pass the ball off nicely to Hopkins thing.

I think that's an optimistic and patient view that I wish I could buy into, but consider: JB's track record during the 2nd golden age of SU hoops was built on Hop's and Murphy's connections, combined with a brand new Melo Center. JB closed, for sure, but he was also in his early-mid 60s and the "old age/retirement" issue was not a factor. I'm sure we'll rebound and get a decent 18 class, and by comparison to this class, any top 50 signings will probably be heralded as the second coming. But I'm not ready to believe reports that a 73-year-old is suddenly drinking from the fountain of youth and that a 3rd golden age is right around the corner.

As for the way things were handled with Hop, I'm not sure why JB should get a pass? He royally messed up the 17 recruiting cycle because of a botched transition plan and basically made it easy for Hop to take the next good offer. And now? Other coaches are going to just crank up the heat about his age and impending retirement. Not only was the can kicked down the road 3-5 years... this notion of stability seems like an illusion at best. All of this was avoidable - that's the frustrating part.

 

[pfister1]

OK, so the decision was made by a company to send new guy to close the deal even when old guy who has closed the deal there before is available. How is that new guys fault? Its mind boggling to me. The state of the program is on JB's shoulders, always has been and always will be till he hangs them up.

Was this done because Hop was going to be engaged over the summer with USA basketball, and JB and Hop decided that they needed someone who had more time available to stay close to Quade over the summer?

Not saying it was the right or wrong thing to do, just positing that if they determined they needed someone to essentially be available to check in with him daily that that may have been why GMAC got inserted into the equation.

 

[jordoo]

Was this done because Hop was going to be engaged over the summer with USA basketball, and JB and Hop decided that they needed someone who had more time available to stay close to Quade over the summer?

Not saying it was the right or wrong thing to do, just positing that if they determined they needed someone to essentially be available to check in with him daily that that may have been why GMAC got inserted into the equation.

I have no real knowledge of why but I am sure the Olympics played a part as well as wanting to get Gerry out there making relationships. In retrospect it wound up being the wrong decision but you can't sell me on Hopkins or Red closing the deal with Green either. He was putting us off since before the summer AAU circuit.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I have no real knowledge of why but I am sure the Olympics played a part as well as wanting to get Gerry out there making relationships. In retrospect it wound up being the wrong decision but you can't sell me on Hopkins or Red closing the deal with Green either. He was putting us off since before the summer AAU circuit.

This is what I think. But it remains to be seen if it was the wrong decision. We really don't know if Hop would have locked up Green. From Jake's comments, Hop was not convinced that Green was a high probability target in the first place so who knows how he would have approached it. But that aside,it may just be that the experience GMac gained and the respect he built with N-G allows us to still have good success in the future there. With Hopkins gone, that was a link that would have been completely severed if not for this work Gerry did (again based on what Jake posted). Remember the program isn't just trying to compete for one or two years but long term.

 

[pfister1]

If we listened to Hop we would have other top 75 PGs.

Randolph was self inflicted.

Going all-in for Green and losing means the decision gets graded on a stricter scale.

Tucker no blame for GMac. I will say if we stayed on the kid for 6 months where we went silent we could have possibly gotten Tucker to sign earlier.


GMac gets a pass because of Duke/Kentucky. When does he lose the pass?

Would we? I wonder if this really comes down to a disagreement between JB and HOP over how to handle/evaluate Franklin Howard??

Maybe JB thinks more highly of Frankie than did Hop. I think I've heard on here that after the negative recruiting incident and the issues with Gillon, that Hop was ready to tell Frankie to take a hike. JB being JB appears to have been willing to put up with more crap and continue to invest in Frankie.

So maybe what we saw play out was a decision that if we could bring in Quade JB was willing to do so and hand him the reigns over Frankie, but JB didn't like the other guys that Hop was suggesting as alternatives well enough, so he didn't want to extend offers to them when they were available.

Not knowing who these "other top 75 PGs" are its hard to put together what is/was going on.

 

[Alsacs]

Would we? I wonder if this really comes down to a disagreement between JB and HOP over how to handle/evaluate Franklin Howard??

Maybe JB thinks more highly of Frankie than did Hop. I think I've heard on here that after the negative recruiting incident and the issues with Gillon, that Hop was ready to tell Frankie to take a hike. JB being JB appears to have been willing to put up with more crap and continue to invest in Frankie.

So maybe what we saw play out was a decision that if we could bring in Quade JB was willing to do so and hand him the reigns over Frankie, but JB didn't like the other guys that Hop was suggesting as alternatives well enough, so he didn't want to extend offers to them when they were available.

Not knowing who these "other top 75 PGs" are its hard to put together what is/was going on.

The players we could have gotten have been listed in this thread.

Jake listed one and Cuse0307 the other.

JB was a bigger problem than I and probably others didn't realize.

Nobody knows the reason why Hop seems to be less active on the trail the last 2 years after Battle which was a Hop flip.

Hop wasn't leading last cycle and that decision makes no sense when he was supposedly taking over the next year. JB making this decision is still baffling to me.

 

[jordoo]

Would we? I wonder if this really comes down to a disagreement between JB and HOP over how to handle/evaluate Franklin Howard??

Maybe JB thinks more highly of Frankie than did Hop. I think I've heard on here that after the negative recruiting incident and the issues with Gillon, that Hop was ready to tell Frankie to take a hike. JB being JB appears to have been willing to put up with more crap and continue to invest in Frankie.

So maybe what we saw play out was a decision that if we could bring in Quade JB was willing to do so and hand him the reigns over Frankie, but JB didn't like the other guys that Hop was suggesting as alternatives well enough, so he didn't want to extend offers to them when they were available.

Not knowing who these "other top 75 PGs" are its hard to put together what is/was going on.

If it was up to Hopkins we would have gotten another guard or us seriously perusing one would have lead to Green committing publicly and signing. We also wouldn't have Frank on the team and probably a bunch of other differences.

 

[GooseMutt]

So you are saying Gerry never said "hey coach I think Green is trolling us looking for something else". Gerry was told to recruit this kid, he did but you act like Gerry had no idea what was going on and totally buffooned the recruitment which is inaccurate. We don't know the communications behind the scenes with the coaching staff. That is why in the end its on the head man.

Green wanted to lay at Kentucky always to have a great supporting cast to help showcase his skills We were is next preferred option but when they showed love at the Garden and him watching the level he would be involved with it was a done deal and unstoppable by anyone. He was predisposed to Kentucky as Tucker was predisposed to Duke which was also not preventable by anyone. Other major recruits we have offered also have targets beyond our tier that we will lose to. That's gonna be no ones fault also. The key is to identify the kids that fit the program and want us as their preferred destination. Our efforts and time spent has to be on feasible recruits not pie in the sky

 

[cuseattle]

 

[GooseMutt]

So he needs to produce this cycle or criticism is warranted?

This is business Gmac needs an opportunity to perform under normal circumstances and a 2 year prriod would be fair( can't wait forever). If he doesn't he needs to be moved to another function( not fired!) time will tell but let's be reasonable and fair

 

[Sherman20]

I think that's an optimistic and patient view that I wish I could buy into, but consider: JB's track record during the 2nd golden age of SU hoops was built on Hop's and Murphy's connections, combined with a brand new Melo Center. JB closed, for sure, but he was also in his early-mid 60s and the "old age/retirement" issue was not a factor. I'm sure we'll rebound and get a decent 18 class, and by comparison to this class, any top 50 signings will probably be heralded as the second coming. But I'm not ready to believe reports that a 73-year-old is suddenly drinking from the fountain of youth and that a 3rd golden age is right around the corner.

As for the way things were handled with Hop, I'm not sure why JB should get a pass? He royally messed up the 17 recruiting cycle because of a botched transition plan and basically made it easy for Hop to take the next good offer. And now? Other coaches are going to just crank up the heat about his age and impending retirement. Not only was the can kicked down the road 3-5 years... this notion of stability seems like an illusion at best. All of this was avoidable - that's the frustrating part.

Fair points, but definitely the pessimistic view.

 

[orangecuse]

There's Duke and UK, and there's UNC and Kansas, and there's everyone else.

At least we're towards the top of the "everyone else" list.

That's interesting...three straight years on the bubble, two in which we missed the dance, a middle of the pack ACC conference team, in which we've still yet to win a single ACC Tournament game. I'd hate to think where we would be if not towards the top of "everyone else's" list.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Nobody knows the reason why Hop seems to be less active on the trail the last 2 years after Battle which was a Hop flip.

Hop wasn't leading last cycle and that decision makes no sense when he was supposedly taking over the next year. JB making this decision is still baffling to me.

Good points. I know a lot of people will and have speculated a lot of things about our recruiting losses but there are a lot of things that don't make sense. Especially on the surface. Unless you are in the room with JAB, Wildhack and the staff, it's all speculation.
It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that JAB is still our head coach. People can argue recruiting strategy all they want but the staff is digging in and seem invigorated. And it seems as if they have changed their strategy as well. Otherwise why else would they have offered 20 players for 2018. Not sure how anyone can find fault with that, but some will.

No one likes to come in 2nd. Hopefully we sign two more players who will contribute next year. Hopefully our 2018 recruiting gets us back into the top 20.

 

[LaggyJon]

When we let the drama play out for months or years instead of closing the deal by using leverage, this is what happens.

With respect to Tucker, I think our fundamental problem is that we had no leverage to exert. By the time we got back involved, we needed him far more than he needed us.

 

[JLine]

2017 isn't over. We will survive. I have made it known that I don't think GMac is the best fit for the job, but it is what it is. JB is back in action. Thread has seemed to turn into bashing him. Let's see how things play out. Losing out on a couple may just work out in our favor. It's happened before. But, carry on.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I think EVERYONE hopes we can turn this ship around, but is "hope" is the only card we have left to play? Optimism and hope are interchangeable at this point. What if JB truly is untouchable and that we will be sentenced to mediocrity for 5-6 more years until he finally hangs em up? Now obviously if we continue to flirt with the NIT every year going forward, then I can see pressure mounting and forcing JB to recognize that it's time to go before "he's ready". But more likely, I can see him doing "just enough" to avoid that fate -- oscillating between NITs and 8-9-10 seeds in the NCAA. That's sort of where we are as a program if the last few years means anything. Personally, I'd rather rip the band-aid off and start over now to spare that fate, and ironically that's where we were headed until Hop was gently nudged out the door.

We didn't become SU fans because of fledgling 8-9-10 seeds and bubble talk every year. I'm a patient man, but just delaying the inevitable doesn't sit well. Even if we're set the expectations pretty low, this board will be a dumpster fire if we don't even sniff the NCAAs next year. I think it's only fair that the next recruiting cycle (17-18) should be considered his last chance for redemption. Being a head coach at SU should always be considered a privilege and not an entitlement... but the way JB turned the tables on the transition screams entitlement. When the program is near its low-water mark, that doesn't leave much wiggle room for excuses.

 

[GooseMutt]

2017 isn't over. We will survive. I have made it known that I don't think GMac is the best fit for the job, but it is what it is. JB is back in action. Thread has seemed to turn into bashing him. Let's see how things play out. Losing out on a couple may just work out in our favor. It's happened before. But, carry on.

Gmac may or may not be a good recruiter but right now circumstances have put him in a position to be whipping boy and I don't like it. This Green and Tucker stuff was not a reflection of him but rather a desire by each to go elsewhere. His coaching contributions are valid and valued by our players

 

[O-pulse]

Ill start by saying that i have zero insight,zero knowledge of gmac as a person,coach, or recruiter.
The only facts that i know are that he was a very good and loved player for us. He was provided with an assistants job with little experience and he has been a primary recruiter for us on high profile recruits that we have lost out on.
My question is simple: Is Gmac our best assistant coach recruiter? If not who is and why does JB seem to favor him when it comes to this critical role?

If GMac is in over his head, that's on JAB. Giving your assistance and players to be who they are; that is a wide coaching move.
However, if that's only lip-service and behind the scenes you're not putting in the work & constant evaluation necessary for the constantly upgrading your team; you aren't behaving like a 'Hall of Fame Coach'.

What I don't know is what JAB is thinking and how he is relating to his assistants and players; except what the media reports and what I observe when I watch games and presser's. JAB is the HC and must fix these problems; as long as he is the head man or risk further deterioration of the program and his legacy.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Gmac may or may not be a good recruiter but right now circumstances have put him in a position to be whipping boy and I don't like it.

I think everyone generally agrees that GMac is not the issue. He's become a scapegoat. The root of the problems lie elsewhere, but that doesn't mean we can't objectively question his pedigree especially when the biggest notch on his resume is a top 80 recruit whose impact is still TBD.

 

[GooseMutt]

I think everyone generally agrees that GMac is not the issue. He's become a scapegoat. The root of the problems lie elsewhere, but that doesn't mean we can't objectively question his pedigree especially when the biggest notch on his resume is a top 80 recruit whose impact is still TBD.

I get it and don't disagree but things are very cloudy

 

[Jasoncuse]

Gmac may or may not be a good recruiter but right now circumstances have put him in a position to be whipping boy and I don't like it. This Green and Tucker stuff was not a reflection of him but rather a desire by each to go elsewhere. His coaching contributions are valid and valued by our players

Agreed. I wouldn't say he's been put in a position to fail, because that doesn't seem close to the truth, but I think he's in the position to take the brunt of whatever recruiting issues we have. That's unfair to him as so many have said, and somewhat unfair to the program to have the least experienced coach carrying a heavy burden.

The players in the program seem to like him and playing for him, so that's a good thing.