Goodbye Aluminum seats

[OttoMets]

Speculation is that the seating will be reduced from about 49.5K to about 44.5K.

That is right about 10% on the nose.

I haven't seen any specifics discussed but I think the seat widths are 18 inches now.

If we are talking about a 10% decrease in capacity, we are taking about close to a 10% increase in seat widths. They will surely do even numbers so I am guessing the new seats will be 20 inches in width. That would be a 10% increase on the nose.

Just speculation. No inside info.

If this happened, the maximum capacity for basketball would go from around 35K to around 31.5K. Now that assumes all the seating areas sold before the center hung scoreboard was in place will still be sold. I do not think this is the case. That scoreboard appears to block the view for some of the seats in the far end zone corners down low.

We might get as low as 30K for basketball with new seating in place.

I would think practical basketball capacity would drop a lot more.

If you're sitting on an aluminum bench in 321 or 335, it's not much trouble for everyone to rotate their hips and turn their heads toward the court and pretend they're long-range view seats. Same goes for 320 and 336 and most of what's east of midfield.

But if everyone's got armrests and is generally oriented straight ahead, those really aren't basketball-compatible seats anymore. They'll sell them, but it'll be a more uncomfortable experience and I imagine less popular.

On the other hand, having real seats in the basketball portion of the building should go over well with the NCAA site selection people, who didn't care for the benches.

 

[PhatOrange]

I am wondering how they are going to find room for ramps in the facility. The concourses are already so congested.

Could they be planning on building them outside the building? Maybe circular ones like many NFL stadia have?

Also, let’s talk about this description of the addition on the east end of the stadium:

The 25,000-square-foot addition would be built on the east end of the stadium, filling in the vacant space between the stadium and the Barnes Center at the Arch.



I would think the first priority here would be to provide a big, open area for fans to spread out and relax. Maybe add some meeting rooms, more areas for food preparation. More bathrooms too. They added some on the lower concourse but I assume this building will have two floors and the second one will be at the level of the upper concourse and provide more restrooms behind the eastern end zone.

The two things I'd heard years ago in the initial plans were to build "outside" the existing footprint; so maybe your handicap ramps like you mention above and I'd heard elevator's and different access to coaches boxes.

The east end has always been described to me as an open atrium type complex like a mall food court where people can congregate, spread out, relax, wine and dine.

 

[sutomcat]

I would think practical basketball capacity would drop a lot more.

If you're sitting on an aluminum bench in 321 or 335, it's not much trouble for everyone to rotate their hips and turn their heads toward the court and pretend they're long-range view seats. Same goes for 320 and 336 and most of what's east of midfield.

But if everyone's got armrests and is generally oriented straight ahead, those really aren't basketball-compatible seats anymore. They'll sell them, but it'll be a more uncomfortable experience and I imagine less popular.

On the other hand, having real seats in the basketball portion of the building should go over well with the NCAA site selection people, who didn't care for the benches.

It is a legitimate concern.

I am hoping for seats like the ones cliftonparksufan posted on page 1 of this thread.

They would be a lot better for basketball, where as you point out, it would be easier to orient your body to the court. Just as important, I think they would be a lot less intrusive on leg room (compared to traditional stadium seats like the ones they installed in Kenan Stadium).

You could get a lot more comfortable seat with something like this seats but a minimal impact on leg room and flexibility to orient as needed.

Hope seats like this are considered.

 

[upperdeck]

on the other hand long range upperdeck seats for bball have a lot better view of the new scoreboard to actually see the game. its not like those sitting in 302 could really see the game before from that distance.. you can be in the building and watch the screen and enjoy the game better than ever.

 

[PhatOrange]

We can debate as nausem. Unless there is some scientific survey we really can only speculate.

well myself and about 20 people I know haven't been in the Dome since, because we didn't want to jump through hoops. How many people like me are out there? Probably a lot.

 

[sutomcat]

The two things I'd heard years ago in the initial plans were to build "outside" the existing footprint; so maybe your handicap ramps like you mention above and I'd heard elevator's and different access to coaches boxes.

The east end has always been describe to me as an open atrium type complex like a mall food court where people can congregate, spread out, relax, wine and dine.

The more open they can make the concourses on the east end, the better.

Worried they are going to build a bunch of small meeting rooms. That would be a shame.

I think we will see a lot of things getting added on outside the original footprint in coming years.

Hope this build out is well planned and the additions look nice. It is going to be easy to add a bunch of ugly unmatched ghastly additions that look awful from the outside.

They need a master plan now so everything goes together and matches. Perhaps this already exists.

 

[upperdeck]

The two things I'd heard years ago in the initial plans were to build "outside" the existing footprint; so maybe your handicap ramps like you mention above and I'd heard elevator's and different access to coaches boxes.

The east end has always been describe to me as an open atrium type complex like a mall food court where people can congregate, spread out, relax, wine and dine.

thats pretty much what i thought they should do all along. Bump out the west end add a whole deck of area that could extend out pretty far if they wanted. covered or not. That would be a very creative space.. room for a bar area/etc, some Tvs to watch the game.

do something creative on the north side.. add a wall/fence area to create an enclosure and people would get inside that area and mill around

the south side you could also do an elavated area over the road i would think. Another space that could be pretty big and allow for some creativity that would enhance the upper deck space. It would also allow for you to take some of the space inside and do something else with it if you had people walk around the inner walls to get around the building..

then there is the rumours of what to do on the east side.. is the connecting road required or can you do something at ground level there. If you can do something where that becomes a courtyard on game days with big gates so that it can stay a road when needed that becomes an interesting area as well.

 

[JRHEETER]

thats pretty much what i thought they should do all along. Bump out the west end add a whole deck of area that could extend out pretty far if they wanted. covered or not. That would be a very creative space.. room for a bar area/etc, some Tvs to watch the game.

do something creative on the north side.. add a wall/fence area to create an enclosure and people would get inside that area and mill around

the south side you could also do an elavated area over the road i would think. Another space that could be pretty big and allow for some creativity that would enhance the upper deck space. It would also allow for you to take some of the space inside and do something else with it if you had people walk around the inner walls to get around the building..

then there is the rumours of what to do on the east side.. is the connecting road required or can you do something at ground level there. If you can do something where that becomes a courtyard on game days with big gates so that it can stay a road when needed that becomes an interesting area as well.

From what I understand, the connection to the arch is going to be ground level and above…

I only know this because my brothers office is in the new arch and his office is against the wall that would be connected to the dome. They asked why they didn’t get any windows when they moved in and they were told that their offices there would be probably be only temporary and that they were going to eventually blow that wall out and connect to the dome.

Now of course, this was a few years ago so a lot can change in that time

 

[sutomcat]

thats pretty much what i thought they should do all along. Bump out the west end add a whole deck of area that could extend out pretty far if they wanted. covered or not. That would be a very creative space.. room for a bar area/etc, some Tvs to watch the game.

do something creative on the north side.. add a wall/fence area to create an enclosure and people would get inside that area and mill around

the south side you could also do an elavated area over the road i would think. Another space that could be pretty big and allow for some creativity that would enhance the upper deck space. It would also allow for you to take some of the space inside and do something else with it if you had people walk around the inner walls to get around the building..

then there is the rumours of what to do on the east side.. is the connecting road required or can you do something at ground level there. If you can do something where that becomes a courtyard on game days with big gates so that it can stay a road when needed that becomes an interesting area as well.

If they are building a 25K facility, I assume that building will directly connect the Dome and the Barnes Center.

The lower concourse is of course well below the surface of the ground on the east end of the dome. Hoping the building has a basement that will open up the lower concourse to the Barnes Center.

In the old days, Archbold Gym had a locker room another story down from the story even with the lower concourse. I think this was where the original football locker rooms were. I know there was a tunnel from there to Archbold Stadium. Hoping they can even do some work here to connect that sub basement level of the Barnes (I assume it still exists) to the dome. Opening holes in the foundation of the building has to be a problem but even if they only opened up a couple of tunnels, it would be a great thing. This could be a great place to build more locker rooms. More locker rooms are badly needed for some events the dome hosts. Maybe more storage for things used regularly at the field level. Like the blue protective tiles. I think they are now stored under the media sky deck but it would be a lot more convenient to have them at field level.

On the east end, I believe the upper concourse is essentially at ground level. So my hope is that the building also expands the upper concourse into the Barnes Center. And maybe it up at least one more floor, for storage, cooking areas, meeting rooms, whatever else might been needed. Then add a deck on the roof and you have done a nice job taking advantage of all the possibilities this project allows.

 

[rrlbees]

We can debate as nausem. Unless there is some scientific survey we really can only speculate.

That’s 100% false. I don’t need scientific data because I have real data and it’s no speculation. I know people all over the COVID spectrum that didn’t go. Some didn’t go because they didn’t like the protocols. Some didn’t go because of COVID and they didn’t feel protocols were being followed nor enforced. That includes people who haven’t missed a game in years. It had an impact.

 

[OttoMets]

If they are building a 25K facility, I assume that building will directly connect the Dome and the Barnes Center.

...

For what it's worth, the portion of the alley north of the southeast gate and south of the old section of Archbold (which retains south-facing windows) is ~10,000 square feet. So it's likely going to be a couple floors; whether that includes 100-level-adjacent space, I don't know - that'd be great, but expensive.

 

[sutomcat]

For what it's worth, the portion of the alley north of the southeast gate and south of the old section of Archbold (which retains south-facing windows) is ~10,000 square feet. So it's likely going to be a couple floors; whether that includes 100-level-adjacent space, I don't know - that'd be great, but expensive.

Good info. I am encouraged.

I am sure there would be worries about affecting the Barnes Center and the dome digging so close to the foundation. But the payoff would be huge. If they can figure out how to put that roof on the building with minimal changes to the walls of the building, I am thinking they could figure out how to do this as well.

But like you say, even if it is possible, would it be cost effective? It would be so great to have a big open area behind the end zone on both concourses. I hope it happens.

I have seen so many people get to the dome early (especially for weekday night basketball games) and rush to a stand to get some food. I am talking specifically about the northeast corner of the lower concourse, where up until recently, was the only place one could get a burger, french fries and chicken fingers. The best food available.

Okay, I am talking about me and wife, or niece, or friend...whoever.

Anyway, you get your food and carry it carefully. To the nearby corner end zone stands, where you have to put food on the seat next to you and eat that way. Ugly but better than nothing. Now before the football season started, they created an open area in the middle of the lower eastern concourse that was meeting rooms but has been opened up, with a number of tables (standing level, no seats). So finally there is a civilized place to eat. No ideal because you have to stand and it tends to fill up fast because it is pretty small. But that was a nice step forward. If that open area became 7 times bigger, wow, that would be awesome. Add some concession areas in there, expand the bathroom areas a bit, add some TVs and you would really have a nice place to meet and eat before a game. Or during or after a game.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I would think practical basketball capacity would drop a lot more.

If you're sitting on an aluminum bench in 321 or 335, it's not much trouble for everyone to rotate their hips and turn their heads toward the court and pretend they're long-range view seats. Same goes for 320 and 336 and most of what's east of midfield.

But if everyone's got armrests and is generally oriented straight ahead, those really aren't basketball-compatible seats anymore. They'll sell them, but it'll be a more uncomfortable experience and I imagine less popular.

On the other hand, having real seats in the basketball portion of the building should go over well with the NCAA site selection people, who didn't care for the benches.

Are you saying that the new seats aren’t swivel reclining seats ?

 

[upperdeck]

That’s 100% false. I don’t need scientific data because I have real data and it’s no speculation. I know people all over the COVID spectrum that didn’t go. Some didn’t go because they didn’t like the protocols. Some didn’t go because of COVID and they didn’t feel protocols were being followed nor enforced. That includes people who haven’t missed a game in years. It had an impact.

I knew way more people who didnt go because of covid safety than didnt go because or protocol issues.. But then i probably hang around more people who tend to think safety first than those who wouldnt get a shot or complained on wearing a mask.

 

[David321]

It’s gonna be a pain in the butt if this causes SU to change pricing all over again next season.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

If we are losing 10% then 3-4 people per row will be displaced. That seems like a headache to figure out where to place them.

Even if you push everyone down the line you will have 3-4 in A moving to B, old aisle B are now no longer aisle seats, 9-12 in B will move to C, old aisle C is no longer aisle, 15-20 in C will move to D, D aisle are no longer, 21-28 in D will move to non preferred, and roughly 42-56 non preferred will have to totally relocate. Pretty much if you are in the section 123 or 124 you get left out.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

It is a legitimate concern.

I am hoping for seats like the ones cliftonparksufan posted on page 1 of this thread.

They would be a lot better for basketball, where as you point out, it would be easier to orient your body to the court. Just as important, I think they would be a lot less intrusive on leg room (compared to traditional stadium seats like the ones they installed in Kenan Stadium).

You could get a lot more comfortable seat with something like this seats but a minimal impact on leg room and flexibility to orient as needed.

Hope seats like this are considered.

Those don't seem very comfortable. SU could probably save money and just give everyone cushions and it would be better for the fans too.

 

[upperdeck]

If we are losing 10% then 3-4 people per row will be displaced. That seems like a headache to figure out where to place them.

Even if you push everyone down the line you will have 3-4 in A moving to B, old aisle B are now no longer aisle seats, 9-12 in B will move to C, old aisle C is no longer aisle, 15-20 in C will move to D, D aisle are no longer, 21-28 in D will move to non preferred, and roughly 42-56 non preferred will have to totally relocate. Pretty much if you are in the section 123 or 124 you get left out.

i guess the other question is how many of the rows are 100% full. some people might have been buying 4-5-6 seats but really using 3-4. we know this last push moved people all over. down low its probably a bigger deal than up high.. and bball bigger deal than fball as well. they pretty much sell all the seats in the pull out section so thats like 100 people with no place to go.. though I have been saying for years they could pretty easily build a module add on section that could bump up 2-3-4 more rows behind the pull out seats.

people seem to want it both ways though.. i want more seat room but not if it comes at a cost..

also is the isle width set in stone. could they take 2-4 inches if isle away on each end and still be up to whatever rules they have? that could perhaps mean 1 less seat loss per row?

 

[SU68]

No so fast Vooh. I hear more ADA seating areas are planned. Perhaps you are going to get an upgrade...

I understand the need for ADA seating areas. I also know from personal observation that the current ADA seating areas are not filled.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

i guess the other question is how many of the rows are 100% full. some people might have been buying 4-5-6 seats but really using 3-4. we know this last push moved people all over. down low its probably a bigger deal than up high.. and bball bigger deal than fball as well. they pretty much sell all the seats in the pull out section so thats like 100 people with no place to go.. though I have been saying for years they could pretty easily build a module add on section that could bump up 2-3-4 more rows behind the pull out seats.

people seem to want it both ways though.. i want more seat room but not if it comes at a cost..

also is the isle width set in stone. could they take 2-4 inches if isle away on each end and still be up to whatever rules they have? that could perhaps mean 1 less seat loss per row?

I don't think the upper deck would be an issue. But lower deck seems pretty full if you look at the map.

 

[FrancoPizza]

That’s 100% false. I don’t need scientific data because I have real data and it’s no speculation. I know people all over the COVID spectrum that didn’t go. Some didn’t go because they didn’t like the protocols. Some didn’t go because of COVID and they didn’t feel protocols were being followed nor enforced. That includes people who haven’t missed a game in years. It had an impact.

Nobody is saying it did not have an impact. Dig up the post where I said losing is the only reason people are staying home. The question was whether the product on the court had more of an impact than COVID. Unless there's a survey with a sufficiently large sampling, it's all just speculation as to what is having the greater impact. Some stayed home because of COVID and some stayed home because the team hasn't been a winner. They are both significant issues. You're entitled to your opinion. And I'm entitled to mine. The difference is I don't get off trying to body slam other people's opinions.

 

[David321]

I don't think the upper deck would be an issue. But lower deck seems pretty full if you look at the map.

Agreed, most of the upper deck sections seem to still have plenty of seats left.

 

[SU68]

Good info. I am encouraged.

I am sure there would be worries about affecting the Barnes Center and the dome digging so close to the foundation. But the payoff would be huge. If they can figure out how to put that roof on the building with minimal changes to the walls of the building, I am thinking they could figure out how to do this as well.

But like you say, even if it is possible, would it be cost effective? It would be so great to have a big open area behind the end zone on both concourses. I hope it happens.

I have seen so many people get to the dome early (especially for weekday night basketball games) and rush to a stand to get some food. I am talking specifically about the northeast corner of the lower concourse, where up until recently, was the only place one could get a burger, french fries and chicken fingers. The best food available.

Okay, I am talking about me and wife, or niece, or friend...whoever.

Anyway, you get your food and carry it carefully. To the nearby corner end zone stands, where you have to put food on the seat next to you and eat that way. Ugly but better than nothing. Now before the football season started, they created an open area in the middle of the lower eastern concourse that was meeting rooms but has been opened up, with a number of tables (standing level, no seats). So finally there is a civilized place to eat. No ideal because you have to stand and it tends to fill up fast because it is pretty small. But that was a nice step forward. If that open area became 7 times bigger, wow, that would be awesome. Add some concession areas in there, expand the bathroom areas a bit, add some TVs and you would really have a nice place to meet and eat before a game. Or during or after a game.

I've eaten in the new stand-up area. I suspect it is stand-up only to keep people from sitting there the whole game and watch on the wall-mounted TVs. Seats would make it like a poor man's Club 44.

 

[hoopsupstate]

thats pretty much what i thought they should do all along. Bump out the west end add a whole deck of area that could extend out pretty far if they wanted. covered or not. That would be a very creative space.. room for a bar area/etc, some Tvs to watch the game.

do something creative on the north side.. add a wall/fence area to create an enclosure and people would get inside that area and mill around

the south side you could also do an elavated area over the road i would think. Another space that could be pretty big and allow for some creativity that would enhance the upper deck space. It would also allow for you to take some of the space inside and do something else with it if you had people walk around the inner walls to get around the building..

then there is the rumours of what to do on the east side.. is the connecting road required or can you do something at ground level there. If you can do something where that becomes a courtyard on game days with big gates so that it can stay a road when needed that becomes an interesting area as well.

The open area between the two new restrooms on the east end will be the connector to the new extension. In some of their earlier drawings, the west end was all glass extended nearly to the sidewalks. They could install several escalators to all levels and have a huge open area for restaurants, restrooms, courtyards, etc. it would include the circular steps going up to each level.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I've eaten in the new stand-up area. I suspect it is stand-up only to keep people from sitting there the whole game and watch on the wall-mounted TVs. Seats would make it like a poor man's Club 44.

This is going to be the connector to the new extension. That’s why it’s been left open.