Gotta say Kaiser is right about the CFB playoffs the Big XII is in trouble

[Alsacs]

No you didn't, unless you didn't understand my question. The response you gave was to credit Notre Dame for scheduling games against teams that are supposed to be good. The problem is those teams weren't.

Asking Baylor, TCU, OSU (both) to schedule ooc that is decent is something we agree with. OU and Texas have each scheduled a name P5 every year OOC.

You still can't ignore conference schedules, though you seem to want to. If we ignore conference schedules, then Notre Dame's ACC games should not be considered since those were not up to them as the ACC is the one who schedules those.

Overall, Notre Dame will still not have as many top-15 games as any of the Big 12 teams or Ohio State.

Two of the top 4 Big XII teams will not end up as top 15 teams at the end of the year. The conference feeds its contenders Kansas, Iowa State, West Virginia, Kansas State, Texas Tech in rotations to inflate their records and the back halves of schedules are against each other.

The Big XII is in trouble this year unless Clemson loses or ND/Utah/Stanford all lose 1 more game. Baylor at 12-0 I think is the only lock to get in CFB playoff from the Big XII if ND finishes 11-1 or the Pac-12 team finishes 12-1.

 

[Guinness]

Right or wrong I'm fairly certain that Bama would be the betting favorite if the tourney were held next weekend. Their front seven is easily the best in college football although admittedly you can do some business on their secondary. On offense Mr. Henry is a load that very few teams can stop.

That defense is probably the 33rd best in the country right now. Only the 32 that play on Sunday are better.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

No you didn't, unless you didn't understand my question. The response you gave was to credit Notre Dame for scheduling games against teams that are supposed to be good. The problem is those teams weren't.

Asking Baylor, TCU, OSU (both) to schedule ooc that is decent is something we agree with. OU and Texas have each scheduled a name P5 every year OOC.

You still can't ignore conference schedules, though you seem to want to. If we ignore conference schedules, then Notre Dame's ACC games should not be considered since those were not up to them as the ACC is the one who schedules those.

Overall, Notre Dame will still not have as many top-15 games as any of the Big 12 teams or Ohio State.

ALL I am saying is that I am happy that OSU, Baylor & TCU were not ranked in the first four. I assume that a good chunk of that was due to their abysmal OOC schedule.

And if their OOC schedule ends up being the determining factor that keeps one of them from getting into the top four, maybe it will force them to schedule some marquee opponents in the OOC.

And that will be more really attractive, early season games.

Also, the more games there are between the top teams of the different P5 conferences, the more data points one has for determining conference superiority - potentially helping to make a case for who got in and who didn't...

 

[sabach]

Moving a middle of the road home game to a neutral site is one thing, but moving a premiere home game to a neutral site is completely different.

Playing Shamrock games away from campus against Maryland, BC, Purdue, Washington State, Maryland, Arizona State etc. lets ND play in whatever recruiting hotbed they want and NBC pays them extra money for it because the game is in primetime.

When Syracuse can't even get ND to play them at the Dome home/home and only away/Metlife that is a joke. When we played ND in 2003/2005/2008 that was a 2 for 1. ND treated SU worse than Michigan/Tennessee/Auburn/Penn State/Florida State did and we were supposed "Big East partners".

Comparing SU moving to ND to Metlife would be like ND moving USC to the Rose Bowl or Michigan to Ford Field. It is a joke and something Rutgers/UConn turned down before Dr. Gross took the money. It was a terrible deal for SU season ticket holders. We are lucky the ACC threw us a bone and gave us one of the two ND 3rd home games so we get them at home before 2025.

Fair enough. I am an SU alum and season ticket holder and lifelong ND fan as well. I remember in 2003 having to buy an extra SU season ticket to guarantee having a seat for my grandfather for the ND game (part of his bucket list to see ND before he died). SU would not sell individual seats for that ND game and then never sold it out.
But my original point was to state that part of ND's not joining a conference is ND wanting to play a national schedule to help recruiting. The fact that they move one home game a year to another site (even if it is middle of the road game) is proof of this fact. You are right, I probably should not have brought up SU and MetLife.

 

[TheCusian]

No doubt joining the ACC was a no-brainer for SU and I will always be grateful to TGD for doing that, regardless of the other things that when down when he was the AD. But let's not criticize a school for not joining a conference because of money and reserve for ourselves the purity of leaving a conference we helped establish under the idea that money was not the main reason.

It's not just money. That's the difference. The money gap is not what it once was.

It's about doing all you can do to put yourself in a position to win the championship. You play to win the game. Syracuse did both money and the path got easier. ND is giving themselves a harder route in favor of money and one OOC game.

 

[Alsacs]

Fair enough. I am an SU alum and season ticket holder and lifelong ND fan as well. I remember in 2003 having to buy an extra SU season ticket to guarantee having a seat for my grandfather for the ND game (part of his bucket list to see ND before he died). SU would not sell individual seats for that ND game and then never sold it out.
But my original point was to state that part of ND's not joining a conference is ND wanting to play a national schedule to help recruiting. The fact that they move one home game a year to another site (even if it is middle of the road game) is proof of this fact. You are right, I probably should not have brought up SU and MetLife.

If ND committed to play in the ACC. The ACC could add Navy as the 16th team.
ND could play 8 ACC games including Navy every year.
Stanford, USC for their annual CA game.
Plus 2 more OOC games and they could make an ACC team their Shamrock Game like they have done with Miami in Chicago, Maryland in DC, and Boston College in Fenway.

ND doesn't want to join a conference because then they would have to share and would lose their Independence. The schedule is just a convenient crux for them. Right now 8 games are locked in every year. 5 ACC, Navy, USC, Stanford. So they if they committed to the ACC it would go from 8 committed games to 10 committed games.

I have had this conservation tons of times with ND fans. My Godfather Uncle and cousin went to ND. They know its about money and keeping "independence". They would rather ND not make CFB playoffs than jon a conference.

 

[KaiserUEO]

You "believe" it but just not enough to bet it on it. I gotcha.

No.

Betting on it is stupid.

Why the fluck would I care to bet on something, that I really don't give a fluck about?

And the only days to do so, would be the Sunday and Monday after championship weekend.

 

[sabach]

It's not just money. That's the difference. The money gap is not what it once was.

It's about doing all you can do to put yourself in a position to win the championship. You play to win the game. Syracuse did both money and the path got easier. ND is giving themselves a harder route in favor of money and one OOC game.

And if that is the case, why do you care that ND has made it harder to win a NC? If the one OOC game ND loses is Navy, that is a big deal. ND has a gentlemen's agreement to play Navy in perpetuity as a thank you for saving ND as a school years ago. I get that tradition and such mean less and less in today's society, especially in college sports but ND does value its tradition and independence even if it means that an 11-1 ND team misses out on the playoffs. If a 12-0 ND team is left out, things may change.

 

[sabach]

If ND committed to play in the ACC. The ACC could add Navy as the 16th team.
ND could play 8 ACC games including Navy every year.
Stanford, USC for their annual CA game.
Plus 2 more OOC games and they could make an ACC team their Shamrock Game like they have done with Miami in Chicago, Maryland in DC, and Boston College in Fenway.

ND doesn't want to join a conference because then they would have to share and would lose their Independence. The schedule is just a convenient crux for them. Right now 8 games are locked in every year. 5 ACC, Navy, USC, Stanford. So they if they committed to the ACC it would go from 8 committed games to 10 committed games.

I have had this conservation tons of times with ND fans. My Godfather Uncle and cousin went to ND. They know its about money and keeping "independence". They would rather ND not make CFB playoffs than jon a conference.

You are right. The fact that the ACC has SU, BC and Pitt (the latter two being traditional ND rivals), allows ND to play in the East and in the south if they were in the ACC. They can still have USC and Stanford for Cali and could still play Navy (even if Navy was not in the ACC). That would leave one other OOC game to play somewhere else (presumably the Midwest or Big 12 country).
The day that a 12-0 ND team is left out of the playoff is the day that may become a reality. However, so long as ND has access to the playoff at 12-0 (which is pretty certain would happen) and even this year at 11-1 is more than likely enough, there is no need to give up independence. Even if it is all about money, what part of college football is not about money?

 

[TheCusian]

And if that is the case, why do you care that ND has made it harder to win a NC? If the one OOC game ND loses is Navy, that is a big deal. ND has a gentlemen's agreement to play Navy in perpetuity as a thank you for saving ND as a school years ago. I get that tradition and such mean less and less in today's society, especially in college sports but ND does value its tradition and independence even if it means that an 11-1 ND team misses out on the playoffs. If a 12-0 ND team is left out, things may change.

I only care in that I'd love to see them in the ACC. It benefits everyone (would the money even out? Probably).

But I do like to needle ND fans. It has to bother them. And if they get left out this year at 11-1, there will be unhappy ND fans.

 

[sabach]

I only care in that I'd love to see them in the ACC. It benefits everyone (would the money even out? Probably).

But I do like to needle ND fans. It has to bother them. And if they get left out this year at 11-1, there will be unhappy ND fans.

I will be unhappy if an 11-1 ND team is left out of the playoffs. But I'm not, nor is ND willing to bend over and take it from the North Carolina mafia to change that unless ND has no access to the playoffs. That does not happen unless a 12-0 ND team is left out which IMO is never going to happen.

 

[TheCusian]

I will be unhappy if an 11-1 ND team is left out of the playoffs. But I'm not, nor is ND willing to bend over and take it from the North Carolina mafia to change that unless ND has no access to the playoffs. That does not happen unless a 12-0 ND team is left out which IMO is never going to happen.

Thank you for perfectly highlighting exactly why ND fans are nutso.

Agreeing to join the ACC is akin to "bending over" ... Or as most everyone else would see it: making a strategic and smart move to give yourself the best chance to win championships.

"Play like a Champion*"
* because you may not actually get a chance

 

[Alsacs]

Thank you for perfectly highlighting exactly why ND fans are nutso.

Agreeing to join the ACC is akin to "bending over" ... Or as most everyone else would see it: making a strategic and smart move to give yourself the best chance to win championships.

"Play like a Champion*"
* because you may not actually get a chance

To be fair they hate the Big Ten more than anybody. I don't like ND's arrogance but they accept that they need to be undefeated or else. I don't like ND because of the lack of respect they showed Syracuse Football. They will give Temple a home/home but won't Syracuse.

 

[sabach]

Thank you for perfectly highlighting exactly why ND fans are nutso.

Agreeing to join the ACC is akin to "bending over" ... Or as most everyone else would see it: making a strategic and smart move to give yourself the best chance to win championships.

"Play like a Champion*"
* because you may not actually get a chance

Notre Dame makes the playoffs with a 12-0 record every year it finishes with that record and some years when it finishes 11-1. How would being in the ACC change any of that? IMO, a two loss ACC champ is never making it into the CFP.

 

[Alsacs]

Notre Dame makes the playoffs with a 12-0 record every year it finishes with that record and some years when it finishes 11-1. How would being in the ACC change any of that? IMO, a two loss ACC champ is never making it into the CFP.

The committee mission statement values conference titles as one of its main criteria. I don't think a 2 loss champion from any conference other than the SEC will ever get in.
ND in the ACC would get into the CFB with 1 loss and conference title. They would have a win over either USC/Stanford if not both and the conference title along with beating FSU/Clemson in the title game would get ND in the CFB playoffs.
That extra game matters the committee jumped Ohio State up to 4th last year over the Big XII because of that extra game.

 

[TheCusian]

Notre Dame makes the playoffs with a 12-0 record every year it finishes with that record and some years when it finishes 11-1. How would being in the ACC change any of that? IMO, a two loss ACC champ is never making it into the CFP.

Around and round.

They'd make it at 12-0 in the ACC too. Especially keeping USC on the schedule. The ACC gives them the chance to be 12-1 and in at small cost or no cost to the pocketbook and just losing what amounts to 1 OOC game.

 

[sabach]

Around and round.

They'd make it at 12-0 in the ACC too. Especially keeping USC on the schedule. The ACC gives them the chance to be 12-1 and in at small cost or no cost to the pocketbook and just losing what amounts to 1 OOC game.

The ACC also gives them a chance to be 11-2 if they lose the ACC Championship game. ND is fine where it is at.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

The ACC also gives them a chance to be 11-2 if they lose the ACC Championship game. ND is fine where it is at.

Going off on a tangent...I was huge proponent of 8.

No more.

Makes just about every game so important...

College Football in November has never been better...

 

[Alsacs]

Going off on a tangent...I was huge proponent of 8.

No more.

Makes just about every game so important...

College Football in November has never been better...

8 makes the most sense. 5 P5 league champs, 3 at-larges. Sorry number 9 your out of luck.

 

[sabach]

Going off on a tangent...I was huge proponent of 8.

No more.

Makes just about every game so important...

College Football in November has never been better...

I agree. For people who want to see ND in the ACC, going to 8 teams will effectively kill that idea because there will be three open slots in addition to all P5 conference champions. I get that conference championship is a big deal now, but it won't be if the playoff adds 4 more teams.

 

[Ish88888]

it's ridiculous that Baylor is ranked ahead of Okie State. OSU just beat a top team in TCU and Baylor has the 109th ranked schedule. As mentioned, their OOC schedule is laughable. I personally don't trust the committee, too much subjectivity and agendas with the human element. The BCS computers always got the top 2 right and would have gotten the top 4 also.

 

[Alsacs]

I agree. For people who want to see ND in the ACC, going to 8 teams will effectively kill that idea because there will be three open slots in addition to all P5 conference champions. I get that conference championship is a big deal now, but it won't be if the playoff adds 4 more teams.

Conference Championship would be an automatic bid if the playoff expand IMO. Now I would add some parameters each conference Champion would have to be a top 15 team or then the autoberth would be forfeited for 1 year.
I wouldn't want a 7-5 ACC Coastal or Big Ten West team getting an autobid to the CFB playoffs.

However, if it went to 8 you give 5 auto bids and 3 at-larges. Play QFs a week before Christmas on campuses and then just like now Semi/Finals 2 of 6 NY6 bowls and neutral site the Monday before MLK.

 

[TheCusian]

The ACC also gives them a chance to be 11-2 if they lose the ACC Championship game. ND is fine where it is at.

If rather have the chance to play it out on the field for a markedly better chance than leaving a flimsy case in the hands of the committee.

 

[sabach]

Conference Championship would be an automatic bid if the playoff expand IMO. Now I would add some parameters each conference Champion would have to be a top 15 team or then the autoberth would be forfeited for 1 year.
I wouldn't want a 7-5 ACC Coastal or Big Ten West team getting an autobid to the CFB playoffs.

However, if it went to 8 you give 5 auto bids and 3 at-larges. Play QFs a week before Christmas on campuses and then just like now Semi/Finals 2 of 6 NY6 bowls and neutral site the Monday before MLK.

I'd keep it the way it is now. Give conference championships extra credit but at the end of the day, try to get the 8 best teams in the country based on records and strength of schedule. A 9-4 ACC or Big Ten Champ is out. No auto bids or else we become the BCS again, just bigger.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

8 makes the most sense. 5 P5 league champs, 3 at-larges. Sorry number 9 your out of luck.

You are not going to get 5 pages of arguments on who should get in if there are 8 teams...