Grant of Rights | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Grant of Rights

Lou, I understand all of that. My point is just that it's frustrating to see so many FSU fans whine constantly about the ACC media deal, when it was your program's poor performance that contributed to it not being as great as it might have been.

Yes, the ACC has been a generally lousy football conference since the raid on the Big East in 2003, and all programs bear responsibility for that. But college football is about premium brands performing to their highest potential. That's what brings in the $$$. The Pac-12 leans on USC, the B1G leans on Michigan and Ohio State, the Big 12 leans on Texas and Oklahoma, and the ACC leans on FSU and Miami. That's just the deal.

With great power comes great responsibility. You can't be down for the better part of a decade and then complain that you're not making SEC money.

;)

Exactly. You can't be unhappy with the league because you think you're better than everyone else and play the "it's all on us" card.

Truth hurts sometimes - FSU can be great but hasn't gotten it done. They just need to win... Especially against the SEC. Crown might feel lighter after a few signature wins.
 
So lets assume Syracuse can't lead the ACC pack year-in and year-out eventually and will have to be content with the occasional run at a ACC championship, which is not a forgone conclusion but a reasonable one based on the history and the facts. I would MUCH rather see Clemson or even dare I say it Miami leading the way than Florida State. I have no real concrete reason for the preference - I guess I just don't like Florida State and don't like the attitude of the fan base. Definitely don't want it to be Virginia Tech either.
 
So lets assume Syracuse can't lead the ACC pack year-in and year-out eventually and will have to be content with the occasional run at a ACC championship, which is not a forgone conclusion but a reasonable one based on the history and the facts. I would MUCH rather see Clemson or even dare I say it Miami leading the way than Florida State. I have no real concrete reason for the preference - I guess I just don't like Florida State and don't like the attitude of the fan base. Definitely don't want it to be Virginia Tech either.
I would be fair about the FSU fanbase. It was pretty split about the ACC a good portion 40% were loyal to the ACC a good portion mainly the online fanbase 40% were jealous of Florida and the SEC money and took it out on the ACC, and the other 20% was caught in between.
I will say living in Charlotte that Clemson fans are good and when they aren't playing SU or against our fate in divisional games I will root for them to be successful.
 
I can kind of understand that reaction, coming from any ACC fans who have seen FSU destabilizing their conference for the past 18 months. I totally get it.

a) FSU fans with any brains understand the lay of the land, that there are non-athletic reasons why they can't get a home in the premier paid conferences. Too far for the PAC, not meeting the academics of the B1G, duplicating a market in the SEC. That said, we've watched the following train wrecks of programs punch their ticket to eternal security and endless rivers of cash: Missouri, Maryland, Rutgers, Colorado, Utah. There isn't a single one of those that is clearly more deserving than Syracuse, how do you think FSU fans feel when they see that? A top 15 football brand, third best basketball team in the ACC, top 10 Directors cup, 80k stadium, big TV draw, two national championships, two Heisman winners, and massive state population. Clearly you can see the frustration at being stuck as by far the lowest TV payout (at the time) and a conference that seemed to clearly oppose FSU at every opportunity (at the time).

That said, I can also understand a school like Syracuse saying "cry me a river" about making $13M or $17M a year compared to where you've been. That's fair, but relative to who we are going up against among our regional peers and , and what our fan base's expectations are, the feeling isn't much different than what you felt.

In other words, rational fans understand why we don't bring "value" like Rutgers or Maryland, but they're pretty pissed about it. But until recently, they also didn't feel like the ACC looked at FSU and other football schools with any value (I believe this has changed).

b) As for the difference in millions, there is some truth to this. But money seriously matters at FSU. We are a very young program, and extremely geographically isolated from our fans. We don't have the financial resources of our ACC peers, let alone those of the schools we really compete against for coaches, athletes and attention, like UF, Alabama, UGA. And yet, FSU's legitimate goal is the national championship every year. We walk a very difficult tightrope of the highest expectations, combined with less resources than those we compete with. We've always done it, but it isn't getting any easier. Money is a very big deal to FSU, unless we're prepared to be a "just good" team.

That said, you are very correct that some FSU folks over-estimate the media rights revenue aspect. There is a lot more to revenue than TV rights, and FSU could sign a Notre Dame-type deal and they still wouldn't come close to Florida's revenue. So a lot of FSU people don't want to acknowledge that making $7-$8 Million more isn't a game changer on it's own.

But FSU fans were looking at a $13M media rights deal while schools like USC, Tennesee, UGA, UF etc were getting ready to pull $30M+, and that's simply not acceptable either.

c) I would dare say that FSU is pretty damn crucial considering how big a role football plays in conference revenue. It's just the way it is right now. FSU is one of very few schools in the ACC positioned to challenge for national titles regularly. To the idea of a competetive football conference that competes with the likes of the SEC, B1G, PAC, Big 12, FSU is definitely crucial. As is Miami, Clemson, VT and probably North Carolina.

However, if you want to ask how crucial is to the ACC as they stand today, maybe not so much. You could remove FSU and the ACC would still have been the giant ball of football suck that it has been the past 10 years. FSU hasn't done much to help the ACC until the last couple years. So you are right if you're looking at it that way.

So, crucial to the ACC maintaining their place as the fifth best football, and fifth best paid conference, maybe not. Crucial to the ACC being a legitimate football conference and someday maybe being paid with the big boys? I'd say yes.

Again, I don't blame fans of other schools for getting tired of hearing FSU folks rattling the cage. I was all for cage rattling, and I still am, I've been doing my share of it. But for the last couple months I've been afraid it could go to far, and we could see UNC/UVA/GT/Duke to the B1G, NCSU/VT to the SEC, and we'd end up in the Big 12 with Miami.

So while I'm not in love with the ACC, without an SEC invite coming, I'm glad we signed after getting major, major improvements, but before UNC or VT called our bluff.

And I've come way, way around about the addition of Syracuse, now that the money is there, and we don't have to play a 9th conference game. I hope you guys do well and an awesome football tradition is reignited there.

Can we get the Cliff's Notes version of this please? Can't take that much time away from work to read all of this...k...thanks!!
 
Holy crap - I knew Duke sucked, but to need $250M just to bring the facilities into the 19th Century? yowzers

Hyperbole maybe, but not a typo. Have you seen where they play? I know people throw around "high school stadium" for effect and all...but seriously, Duke needs renovations just to be up to high school specs in the South.
 
The ACC has struggled recently in perception because Miami and Florida State dipped from top 5 status nationally to top 15ish for FSU and out of the top 25 for Miami. The ACC split Miami/FSU up in their divisional alignments because they thought you and them playing twice would be 2 top 10 battles each year. Now, I understand your sensitive to the blame being on FSU exclusively when its on North Carolina, NC State, Virginia, Maryland, Georgia Tech for failing to create unbelly similar to that of Tennessee, Georgia, South Carolina, Texas A&M, Auburn, have done for Alabama, LSU, and Florida. The ACC has only had Florida State, Virginia Tech, and Clemson consistently good in the last 5 years. The angry directed at FSU is because they we are seen as the leaders of we are angry at Florida is making a crap ton of money in the SEC and so we want out of the ACC camp. Now that the ACC is secure and the conference is adding a good team for its unbelly in Louisville and Fedora is growing the North Carolina football team, Golden is doing the same at Miami and Jumbo has brought FSU back to top 10 status and Frank Beamer will keep Virginia Tech top 25. Calm down, and realize SU fans are seeing things from our Orange tinted lenses as you are with Garnet/Gold lenses.

I don't disagree with this, except that Clemson has been pretty horrible until recently. Believe me, I'm calmer about the ACC than I have been in 10 years.
 
Lou, I understand all of that. My point is just that it's frustrating to see so many FSU fans whine constantly about the ACC media deal, when it was your program's poor performance that contributed to it not being as great as it might have been.

Yes, the ACC has been a generally lousy football conference since the raid on the Big East in 2003, and all programs bear responsibility for that. But college football is about premium brands performing to their highest potential. That's what brings in the $$$. The Pac-12 leans on USC, the B1G leans on Michigan and Ohio State, the Big 12 leans on Texas and Oklahoma, and the ACC leans on FSU and Miami. That's just the deal.

With great power comes great responsibility. You can't be down for the better part of a decade and then complain that you're not making SEC money.

;)

I am definitely in for FSU playing the Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Michigan, OSU role. I'm in.

But please, by God, somebody needs to play the Oregon, Stanford, Wisconsin, Oklahoma State, Kansas State roll. We haven't had that in 20 years. That predates FSU sucking.

It's not enough for just FSU to win. That is my point. FSU needs to win big, and most of the other schools need to win more. The Big 12 signed their deal with Oklahoma 10+ years removed from their title, and Texas in their biggest slump in more than a decade. But they put top five teams out year after year. The PAC signed their deal with USC headed to probation.

We're going to shoot for 12-0 either way. The problem is that when many schools feel like that is enough, you end up with the worst valued football conference.

Again, I'm encouraged that this mindset may be changing, but I'm still going to fight it where I see it.
 
So lets assume Syracuse can't lead the ACC pack year-in and year-out eventually and will have to be content with the occasional run at a ACC championship, which is not a forgone conclusion but a reasonable one based on the history and the facts. I would MUCH rather see Clemson or even dare I say it Miami leading the way than Florida State. I have no real concrete reason for the preference - I guess I just don't like Florida State and don't like the attitude of the fan base. Definitely don't want it to be Virginia Tech either.

That's ok if you don't like us. If Syracuse is having a winning record regularly and making occasional runs at an ACC title, and helping the conference be much better, FSU folks will love your unrequitedly.
 
I would be fair about the FSU fanbase. It was pretty split about the ACC a good portion 40% were loyal to the ACC a good portion mainly the online fanbase 40% were jealous of Florida and the SEC money and took it out on the ACC, and the other 20% was caught in between.
I will say living in Charlotte that Clemson fans are good and when they aren't playing SU or against our fate in divisional games I will root for them to be successful.

No doubt SEC jealousy is a big part of it, made worse by the fact that we CHOSE our fate. Maybe the biggest part.

That said, there is a lot of bad blood in the FSU relationship with the ACC that need not be rehashed. Should be willing to start anew. In my opinion, FSU has made strides in their part of the bargain the last few years, and the ACC has made strides on FSU/football needs. We should be able to put that in the past for now.

And to be fair, the ACC you will join in July is much, much stronger than the ACC you agreed to join in 2012. That's a win for everyone.

And I think Syracuse, and also Louisville, can be key components of a better ACC. You guys play to the strength of the conference in basketball (which needs a jump start). But at the same time you aren't blind to football, and I think we can count on you to bring balanced input to decision making. There are schools in the ACC that would tear down their football stadium if it meant two more wins in basketball, and I don't think Syracuse will be that way. Or Louisville.
 
That's ok if you don't like us. If Syracuse is having a winning record regularly and making occasional runs at an ACC title, and helping the conference be much better, FSU folks will love your unrequitedly.
Yeah it's just a gut level opinion nothing personal and appreciate your commentary here as I've seen you appear a couple of times and have liked what I've read. I am excited to have you guys and Clemson on the schedule every year - for us it is a big step up in terms level of competition and 'quality of product' that we get to experience. I think there are about 5 teams that can be perennially solid contenders in the ACC and I don't see any reason why recent down years should be expected to continue forever. I do understand the desire of your fanbase to be in the SEC btw, I guess I just don't like the extent to which the fanbase feels entitled to it or whatever you want to call it. In any case we're all in the same boat now and I think there is reason for optimism. Louisville by the way was a must have - so glad that happened and I assume that appeased the powers that be on your side somewhat.
 
Can we get the Cliff's Notes version of this please? Can't take that much time away from work to read all of this...k...thanks!!

LOL. I'm like that. Summary:

FSU needs to get better, but everyone else needs to get better too. Can't blame FSU for acting like they are "all that", but then tell them that they need to be "all that" to keep the ACC from failing. They are all that or they're not. Better for the ACC if they aren't.

FSU has some good reasons to be whiny about the ACC, and some that are more emotional that rational. I don't blame anyone in ACC for being sick of FSU destabilizing the league.

Future may be bright.
 
LOL. I'm like that. Summary:

FSU needs to get better, but everyone else needs to get better too. Can't blame FSU for acting like they are "all that", but then tell them that they need to be "all that" to keep the ACC from failing. They are all that or they're not. Better for the ACC if they aren't.

FSU has some good reasons to be whiny about the ACC, and some that are more emotional that rational. I don't blame anyone in ACC for being sick of FSU destabilizing the league.

Future may be bright.

LOL...Got it...thanks!!!
 
Yeah it's just a gut level opinion nothing personal and appreciate your commentary here as I've seen you appear a couple of times and have liked what I've read. I am excited to have you guys and Clemson on the schedule every year - for us it is a big step up in terms level of competition and 'quality of product' that we get to experience. I think there are about 5 teams that can be perennially solid contenders in the ACC and I don't see any reason why recent down years should be expected to continue forever. I do understand the desire of your fanbase to be in the SEC btw, I guess I just don't like the extent to which the fanbase feels entitled to it or whatever you want to call it. In any case we're all in the same boat now and I think there is reason for optimism. Louisville by the way was a must have - so glad that happened and I assume that appeased the powers that be on your side somewhat.

Yes, the exchange of Louisville for Maryland, and particularly the fact that Louisville got the call over UConn, is one of about 10 things that somewhat calmed a lot of FSU fans (including myself) about the future of the ACC, at least vis a vis opportunities in the Big 12.

Not kidding, there are about 10 or more significant factors from the day you guys were announced to the day you guys actually join that make this league much stronger. FSU fans that are paying attention realize things have gotten better.
 
I am definitely in for FSU playing the Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Michigan, OSU role. I'm in.

But please, by God, somebody needs to play the Oregon, Stanford, Wisconsin, Oklahoma State, Kansas State roll. We haven't had that in 20 years. That predates FSU sucking.

It's not enough for just FSU to win. That is my point. FSU needs to win big, and most of the other schools need to win more. The Big 12 signed their deal with Oklahoma 10+ years removed from their title, and Texas in their biggest slump in more than a decade. But they put top five teams out year after year. The PAC signed their deal with USC headed to probation.

We're going to shoot for 12-0 either way. The problem is that when many schools feel like that is enough, you end up with the worst valued football conference.

Again, I'm encouraged that this mindset may be changing, but I'm still going to fight it where I see it.


Like I said, that's fair.

Look, most of us have spent the past 10 years noting how much ACC football kinda sucks, on the field. You'll get no argument from us. If the Big East had better brands and larger fanbases, the roles of realignment would have been reversed, no doubt.

;)
 
Then why isn't anyone throwing the responsibility on BC? IF the entire conference is dependent on FSU and only FSU to be challenging for national titles in football, and it's ok for everyone else to screw around and suck, (and FSU is also the third best basketball program in the conference for the past eight years), can you now understand why FSU fans don't love splitting money evenly? When apparently it is all on FSU's shoulders?

FSU returning to the top is part of it. And we're getting there, we've won 31 games in the last three years, and we know that's still not good enough. But it's about EVERYONE living up to their potential in the ACC, something which nobody but Virginia Tech and Wake Forest can even begin to claim to have done.

I have no problem with FSU accepting nothing less than 12-0 every year. It's what we're going to do anyway. But that means North Carolina can't be satisfied 6-6 seasons, Clemson can't accept 8-4 seasons, Virginia can't accept 4-8 seasons, and Syracuse can't accept 3-9 seasons. Everyone can't continue as we have been, and just count on FSU to start another run of top 5 finishes and solve all ills. OR at least that can't be expected, and think FSU fans are going to be happy with it.

I have zero problems with FSU being held to a higher standard than other ACC teams, but the majority have held themselves to no standard, but taken their equal cut.

I am enthusiastic that this may be changing. I don't think Syracuse plans on 3 and 4 win seasons in the ACC. I think Clemson is in it to win it now, and I think Miami penalties will not be as bad as we feared. UNC's AD just talked about increasing revenue by like 40%. Well, he's not getting there without putting a competitive football team on the field, so it's good to see them thinking that way. Duke just committed a quarter BILLION to bringing it's football facilities into the 19th century. There are promising signs out of UVA.

I am NOT one who thinks the ACC is preordained to suck in football. This conference has the athletes and resources and exposure to be the 2nd or 3rd best football conference consistently, at worst. I think the ACC has more upside than most, but it simply have the philosophy of "Let FSU play Miami in the conference championship game, and the winner will hopefully play for the national title."

That's failed. No other conference, even the Big 12, has seen so little success from it's b-list.

Again, I am optimistic, but this "FSU will win and solve everything" is a recipe for disaster. Nobody can win every year. We need improvement accross the board. I think after this reallignment mess, everyone realizes it. I think they see we will eventually get left way behind if we don't play some football.
Syracuse has gone 8-5, 5-7 (with a horrible collapse at the end of the year, and 8-5 in the past 3 years playing a pretty tough ooc schedule and things only seem to be getting better. It's not like we're Duke.
 
LOL. I'm like that. Summary:

FSU needs to get better, but everyone else needs to get better too. Can't blame FSU for acting like they are "all that", but then tell them that they need to be "all that" to keep the ACC from failing. They are all that or they're not. Better for the ACC if they aren't.

FSU has some good reasons to be whiny about the ACC, and some that are more emotional that rational. I don't blame anyone in ACC for being sick of FSU destabilizing the league.

Future may be bright.
Like your posts Lou, but someone needs to let the FSU fans know what when on in the Big East, during the time Miami and Virginia Tech were here. Miami 2 national title's 12 of 13 years top 25 128-24-0, Virginia Tech 108-48-1, Notre Dame not a football member but took bowl bids 104-51-2. Syracuse 101-53-1, now we come to the so-called powerhouse, but not when the Big East was strong, West Virginia 88-64-2. Had West Virginia actually been a strong football school when the Big East had a good conference, things might be different. Those 1st 4 records with Florida State back where they belong, Clemson, North Carolina, Georgia Tech, Louisville, and in 5 years the ACC will be best in everything.
 
Holy crap - I knew Duke sucked, but to need $250M just to bring the facilities into the 19th Century? yowzers

Not all of the $250 million is going to Wallace Wade Stadium, but all the members of the ACC are thrilled that Duke is finally going to spend some money modernizing Wallace Wade Stadium for the first time since 1940. It's about time that they take football seriously. They've hired Dave Cutcliffe who hopefully can make a difference. Most everyone knows Duke spends money on basketball, lacrosse, and other olympic sports. It's great to see some football emphasis. No one expects them to be at the top of the ACC every year in football, but they shouldn't always be at the bottom either, and don't have to be.

Here's a video on what Duke is doing. http://blogs.newsobserver.com/dukenow/video-more-on-dukes-athletic-facilities-upgrades
 
B1G will pursue Oklahoma and Texas for the B1G West. The B1G West is completely imbalanced within the East. Wisconsin and Nebraska are going to have to carry that division and we don't even know if Wisconsin will sustain itself without Bret Bielema as a consistent top 25 and could cause that division to become Nebraska vs. Penn State/Ohio State/Michigan/Michigan State.

If Oklahoma and Texas go to the B1G then the SEC can go after Oklahoma State and another school to create a partner for Texas A&M, and the Pac-12 is stuck. Kansas could be the ACC's 16th in that scenario.
 
Delany increased the payout to his top-tier teams by conscripting the hapless cable subscribers of NJ and MD. He could care less about the quality of the athletics programs floundering in his food vacuole.
"Subscribers" who will now be forced to watch 8-23 Rutgers bball squads for the foreseeable future.
 
B1G will pursue Oklahoma and Texas for the B1G West. The B1G West is completely imbalanced within the East. Wisconsin and Nebraska are going to have to carry that division and we don't even know if Wisconsin will sustain itself without Bret Bielema as a consistent top 25 and could cause that division to become Nebraska vs. Penn State/Ohio State/Michigan/Michigan State.

If Oklahoma and Texas go to the B1G then the SEC can go after Oklahoma State and another school to create a partner for Texas A&M, and the Pac-12 is stuck. Kansas could be the ACC's 16th in that scenario.

I think if this happens, you might actually see WVU come back into play for the ACC. But they'll need to execute on an academic improvement strategy between now and then and keep athletics competitive with Big XII money. ACC schools don't want to be flying out to Kansas any more than they do Iowa. They might put up with Texas because of market potential, but not the others.
 
I think if this happens, you might actually see WVU come back into play for the ACC. But they'll need to execute on an academic improvement strategy between now and then and keep athletics competitive with Big XII money. ACC schools don't want to be flying out to Kansas any more than they do Iowa. They might put up with Texas because of market potential, but not the others.
I actually mentioned WVU as the ACC 16 in another thread. I think Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas are the 4 most valuable pieces in the Big XII and I think they will get chopped up by the B1G/SEC. I don't think the Pac-12 is going to touch the Big XII because Texas won't have to take care of Texas Tech anymore in this world of survival and TCU/Baylor are private schools that won't have an Ann Richards politician type to influence Texas.
 
I am definitely in for FSU playing the Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Michigan, OSU role. I'm in.

But please, by God, somebody needs to play the Oregon, Stanford, Wisconsin, Oklahoma State, Kansas State roll. We haven't had that in 20 years. That predates FSU sucking.

It's not enough for just FSU to win. That is my point. FSU needs to win big, and most of the other schools need to win more. The Big 12 signed their deal with Oklahoma 10+ years removed from their title, and Texas in their biggest slump in more than a decade. But they put top five teams out year after year. The PAC signed their deal with USC headed to probation.

We're going to shoot for 12-0 either way. The problem is that when many schools feel like that is enough, you end up with the worst valued football conference.

Again, I'm encouraged that this mindset may be changing, but I'm still going to fight it where I see it.

I would submit that Virginia Tech has played that role in the ACC and gone to 5 BCS games in the 2000s. But the problem is that they have only won 1, and it was against Cincinnati. They lost to Auburn, Kansas, Stanford, and Michigan. If Virginia Tech had been able to win these games when they were winning the ACC, the perception wouldn't be as bad. Then we had Georgia Tech go and lose to Iowa and Wake Forest go and lose to Louisville. FSU went and lost to Penn State. Every one of these games was close except for Stanford-VT, but the ACC team did lose them all. That's been the issue.
 

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